Question on Tithing

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CoffeeDrinker

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#1
Say you tithe every payday on a regular basis, but one day you are thinking of giving your tithes to a person instead of where you normally give your tithes. Is that considered tithing? Should you still tithe the same as always, but then give the person something different, is that an offering?

What if you don't have any other money and when you go to give your tithe you feel led to give it to a person.
Is that right / wrong? Is there no answer? Is it a personal decision between a person and God?
 
Amens/Likes: bobinfaith

Fish Catcher Jim

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#2
What if you don't have any other money and when you go to give your tithe you feel led to give it to a person.
Is that right / wrong? Is there no answer? Is it a personal decision between a person and God?
Then one must be sure it's the Holy Spirit leading you to give your Tithe some place else and not feelings or emotions or what looks like a need.

Blessings
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
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Senior Moderator
#3
Greetings Friends,
There seems to be a lot of confusion about Biblical Giving and the Tithe.

Tithing was around from the beginning, even before the law of Moses.
Being redeemed from the curse of the law or not being under the law Does Not Excuse, Throw out or destroy the Tithe.
The tithe has Not Ever been apart of the law.

Now with that said, I am going to clear the air as they say and Distinguish the Different Biblical Giving.

1. Tithe
2. Offerings
3. First Fruits
4. Alms

1. Tithe has and always will be 10 percent of your earnings.
The tithe carries a different promise with it. Malachi 3:10-12

2. Offerings are an additional form of giving and have nothing to do with the tithe.

Offerings carry different promise all together separate from the Tithe Promise.
Such As Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Scriptures such as 2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This Does Not Say Anything about Taking away the tithe nor Does it Say It is Ok to Determine if you want to give 10 percent or not.

This is Dealing With Offerings
However........Giving Tithe out of duty or a heart grumbling is Not Acceptable either.

3. First Fruits.
This is Not the tithe as many believe
No the First Fruits are to be Given Once A Year. It is of your Increase.

Example.
Starting January 1st you are getting a 1 dollar an hour Raise.
So on a given 40 hour work week you would now be making 40 dollars more each paycheck.
First Fruit is simply taking the First Extra 40 Dollars (just once) and Adding it with your giving that week.
This does not cancel out your tithe.

Folks act like this is too much.
Let's think about this for a moment,
For the prior 52 weeks you lived with out the extra 40 dollars a week.
So why would one more week hurt you?

The next 51 weeks you keep the 40 extra dollars each week.
The thing I want you to see is this.
Do You Love and Respect God so much that You Will Keep Him First in your life including Your Finances.

If you think God does Not Notice.....
You are not thinking correctly.

4. Alms....
This is totally separate from the other three and Is The Only One You Are Giving To Man. The other three are unto God.

Example giving to some one in need.
Helping out some one etc.

Matthew 6:3
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

This is the only Giving where God tells us to keep it quiet and do not make a big show of it.
It's not about the giver but Protecting the ones in need. Why draw attention to them or their need.

This is only a simple example of True Biblical Giving. One can dig deep into this.

I pray this has helped some and brought a clearer understanding of True Biblical Giving.

Blessings
FCJ
 
#4
@ Fish Catcher Jim

This is exactly why I joined a Christian forum, so I could see viewpoints and information that I would not otherwise come across. You bring up several points, that while I can't say I have never come across, are presented in in a way I don't think I have ever seen. I am going to have to do some prayer and study on this point because I honestly think I have been putting some of this into practice wrong in my life.

Back to general topic:

I think FCJ's second post has broken this down in a very specific way that is great for day to day considerations but his first post is very much to point on the specific question. I would have to agree that there may well be a reason that the spirit is leading you to take your tithe and apply it elsewhere but I would personally want to be certain that this is coming from the Spirit and not personal desire or emotion.

Personally I think Christ made it clear that God's law was not meant to be an unbearable burden on his people. The apostle's reaped grain on the Sabbath and he defended them, siting David's taking of the priests bread, out of necessity, when he was on the run from Saul. (I didn't fact check that so I hope I am remembering right, call me out if I am wrong here).

Certainly I don't know your finances, it may be that you are being called to help someone and the only way you can do that is provide from the money you would normally tithe. I would definitely be very prayerful for spiritual discernment on that. It may help to pray with Jim's second post in mind that giving to an individual is not tithing, is that what you are being led to do?

I spent years not tithing due to some bad advice from a dear loved one. The advice was well intentioned but I know now was based purely on this world. I took the advice because it made my life easier and the source of the advice made me feel better about the decision. I never spent any time in prayer on this and know now that it was an earthly decision and not spirit led at all.

I pray for guidance and understanding for your decision.

HeIsOnFirst
 
#6
Say you tithe every payday on a regular basis, but one day you are thinking of giving your tithes to a person instead of where you normally give your tithes. Is that considered tithing? Should you still tithe the same as always, but then give the person something different, is that an offering?

What if you don't have any other money and when you go to give your tithe you feel led to give it to a person.
Is that right / wrong? Is there no answer? Is it a personal decision between a person and God?
I have a problem with the subject of tithing. Pretty much everyone does, especially leadership. I've attended churches where the pastor would not speak of it. Instead he'd get an elder to talk about it and he'd take the day off - not even any Q&A after the service.

Tithing is a part of Mosaic Law.

Mostly targeting an agrarian society, it mentions first fruits which is a once or twice a year event. First fruits are not harvested every two weeks or every month. The book of Leviticus doesn't even require the tithe to be given to the priests. One passage states that its to be saved and at the end of the year the family is to use the money to buy "whatever their heart desires". On special occasions, the tithe was to be surrendered to the priests or rabbi at the local synagogue. It was definitely not something collected every week.

Moving forward to the age of grace, there is absolutely no mention of required tithing in the New Testament at all. One is to give according to the abundance of one's heart and not for a show before the community. One is definitely not to lie about one's giving. Either do it or don't do it, but don't lie about giving more than you do.

Moving ever forward to the post-modern church, there is much said about salvation being free. Once converted, however, the new Christian is notified that he or she is required to pay a religious tax (tithe) for the rest of their life. One might assume from a purely financial standpoint that it would be better to never join a church in the first place. This is an example of convoluted logic and modern hypocrisy of doctrine. Tithing is not required either by Levitical Law or the lack of a statement of it in the New Covenant.

That being said, everyone enjoys attending worship services in a nice building. Buildings obviously cost money as well as all the accoutrements we're used to enjoying on Sunday. It's good to have heat in the winter and a/c in the summer and its good to hire professional shepherds (despite the fact the apostles never operated on salary). Like it or not we live in an age that requires financial support for everything, including a house of prayer. Dues are required to sustain the edifice and to worship according to our custom. There isn't a moral dilemma with regard to paying dues to ones religious organization. If you want to dance at the party you really should not welch on your part of the expenses.

I call it dues and not tithing. Tithing is part of Jewish ceremonial Law that is not mentioned in the pages of the New Covenant. Even if it is preached, its generally interpreted incorrectly. During collection of money to build the wilderness tabernacle, Moses actually told the people to stop giving. During refurbishment of Solomon's temple, the priests told the people to stop giving when the tally of funds had been achieved.

Tithing is not required according to Biblical law. Dues are a moral obligation as part of membership and as such ought to be paid - even required. We pay for internet services do we not? How much more valuable are religious dues. They are not a spiritual requirement, but dues are a human necessity.

A new spin on an old subject...

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#7
I have a problem with the subject of tithing. Pretty much everyone does, especially leadership. I've attended churches where the pastor would not speak of it. Instead he'd get an elder to talk about it and he'd take the day off - not even any Q&A after the service.

Tithing is a part of Mosaic Law.

Mostly targeting an agrarian society, it mentions first fruits which is a once or twice a year event. First fruits are not harvested every two weeks or every month. The book of Leviticus doesn't even require the tithe to be given to the priests. One passage states that its to be saved and at the end of the year the family is to use the money to buy "whatever their heart desires". On special occasions, the tithe was to be surrendered to the priests or rabbi at the local synagogue. It was definitely not something collected every week.

Moving forward to the age of grace, there is absolutely no mention of required tithing in the New Testament at all. One is to give according to the abundance of one's heart and not for a show before the community. One is definitely not to lie about one's giving. Either do it or don't do it, but don't lie about giving more than you do.

Moving ever forward to the post-modern church, there is much said about salvation being free. Once converted, however, the new Christian is notified that he or she is required to pay a religious tax (tithe) for the rest of their life. One might assume from a purely financial standpoint that it would be better to never join a church in the first place. This is an example of convoluted logic and modern hypocrisy of doctrine. Tithing is not required either by Levitical Law or the lack of a statement of it in the New Covenant.

That being said, everyone enjoys attending worship services in a nice building. Buildings obviously cost money as well as all the accoutrements we're used to enjoying on Sunday. It's good to have heat in the winter and a/c in the summer and its good to hire professional shepherds (despite the fact the apostles never operated on salary). Like it or not we live in an age that requires financial support for everything, including a house of prayer. Dues are required to sustain the edifice and to worship according to our custom. There isn't a moral dilemma with regard to paying dues to ones religious organization. If you want to dance at the party you really should not welch on your part of the expenses.

I call it dues and not tithing. Tithing is part of Jewish ceremonial Law that is not mentioned in the pages of the New Covenant. Even if it is preached, its generally interpreted incorrectly. During collection of money to build the wilderness tabernacle, Moses actually told the people to stop giving. During refurbishment of Solomon's temple, the priests told the people to stop giving when the tally of funds had been achieved.

Tithing is not required according to Biblical law. Dues are a moral obligation as part of membership and as such ought to be paid - even required. We pay for internet services do we not? How much more valuable are religious dues. They are not a spiritual requirement, but dues are a human necessity.

A new spin on an old subject...

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
 
Amens/Likes: Cturtle

CoffeeDrinker

Helper
Staff member
Helper
#8
I have a problem with the subject of tithing. Pretty much everyone does, especially leadership. I've attended churches where the pastor would not speak of it. Instead he'd get an elder to talk about it and he'd take the day off - not even any Q&A after the service.

Tithing is a part of Mosaic Law.

Mostly targeting an agrarian society, it mentions first fruits which is a once or twice a year event. First fruits are not harvested every two weeks or every month. The book of Leviticus doesn't even require the tithe to be given to the priests. One passage states that its to be saved and at the end of the year the family is to use the money to buy "whatever their heart desires". On special occasions, the tithe was to be surrendered to the priests or rabbi at the local synagogue. It was definitely not something collected every week.

Moving forward to the age of grace, there is absolutely no mention of required tithing in the New Testament at all. One is to give according to the abundance of one's heart and not for a show before the community. One is definitely not to lie about one's giving. Either do it or don't do it, but don't lie about giving more than you do.

Moving ever forward to the post-modern church, there is much said about salvation being free. Once converted, however, the new Christian is notified that he or she is required to pay a religious tax (tithe) for the rest of their life. One might assume from a purely financial standpoint that it would be better to never join a church in the first place. This is an example of convoluted logic and modern hypocrisy of doctrine. Tithing is not required either by Levitical Law or the lack of a statement of it in the New Covenant.

That being said, everyone enjoys attending worship services in a nice building. Buildings obviously cost money as well as all the accoutrements we're used to enjoying on Sunday. It's good to have heat in the winter and a/c in the summer and its good to hire professional shepherds (despite the fact the apostles never operated on salary). Like it or not we live in an age that requires financial support for everything, including a house of prayer. Dues are required to sustain the edifice and to worship according to our custom. There isn't a moral dilemma with regard to paying dues to ones religious organization. If you want to dance at the party you really should not welch on your part of the expenses.

I call it dues and not tithing. Tithing is part of Jewish ceremonial Law that is not mentioned in the pages of the New Covenant. Even if it is preached, its generally interpreted incorrectly. During collection of money to build the wilderness tabernacle, Moses actually told the people to stop giving. During refurbishment of Solomon's temple, the priests told the people to stop giving when the tally of funds had been achieved.

Tithing is not required according to Biblical law. Dues are a moral obligation as part of membership and as such ought to be paid - even required. We pay for internet services do we not? How much more valuable are religious dues. They are not a spiritual requirement, but dues are a human necessity.

A new spin on an old subject...

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
I do give tithes to the church and donate elsewhere. I do it with joy and I am very happy in doing it.
 

Cturtle

Senior Moderator / Secretary
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Secretary
#9
I do give tithes to the church and donate elsewhere. I do it with joy and I am very happy in doing it.
Even Adam and Eve were set up to tithe and Abraham tithe to Melchizadek and that was before moses :)

And given your testimonies about the things The Father has done for you... I know your on the right track.
 

CoffeeDrinker

Helper
Staff member
Helper
#10
Even Adam and Eve were set up to tithe and Abraham tithe to Melchizadek and that was before moses :)

And given your testimonies about the things The Father has done for you... I know your on the right track.
I am so happy to give and grateful. I do it with a grateful heart. The Lord has helped me and brought me out of Egypt. I am so very grateful for all he does for me and especially how close we have become spiritually with one another.
 
#11
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
Our Lord's response quoted above had nothing to do with tithing.

The question before Jesus was whether or not one should pay TAXES to the government. Jesus said nothing about tithing except to point out generosity of those who gave money they couldn't afford. Those gifts, btw, were above and beyond the requirements of Mosaic Law. Again, the context of NT teaching about gifting is that it should be done from the abundance of the heart. It is not a legalistic practice.

This brings up an important issue - WWJD with regard to allegiance to a government. Jesus' example was to obey the civil laws and to pay taxes. He did nothing else.

HE did not pledge allegiance to the Roman government (or to the Sandedrin or Herod - the Jewish government).
HE did not 'support the troops' (invaders in a country where they weren't welcome, oppressors of the civil population, despots with regard to political liberty).(*)
HE did not acknowledge the presence of icons of worship of the government in the houses of prayer (churches today have a national flag displayed in a position politically superior to the cross).
HE did not justify Roman wars of conquest as a gift from God (they weren't).
HE did not proclaim that Caesar was a man to be admired.
HE did not salute or honor icons of Roman government such as flags, banners, parades, etc.

Jesus acted, as we should, like an ambassador or traveler from another country, which in fact is exactly what He was.

Did I go off topic with this?

Perhaps a little, but as the quoted text at the top had to do with a political subject outside the context of tithing I felt it important to clarify the issue. Tithing is never required in the New Covenant. It is a matter of Mosaic Law that is misinterpreted so as to justify the necessity of collecting funds to maintain a venue for religious observance.

Does God bless the giving of gifts?

He most certainly does as is reflected in scripture and the testimony of the saints. Disciples of Christ are admonished to adopt generosity as a positive character trait. Giving from the heart is better than giving from the Law. There is an important difference, however, that should not be forgotten in the midst of the frenzy to collect donations. The other side of the coin is responsible stewardship of finances made available through gifting. Sadly, most churches in the US have been negligent in this. Most churches in the US are obscenely in debt due to mismanagement of the funds God has provided to them. If someone wants to get into quoting legalistic regulations I submit that those who've been pilfering the purses of our churches are kin to Judas rather than Jesus. They should be summarily dismissed as officers of the church, perhaps even found responsible in a civil court of law. How's that for legalism?

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Soldiers and military officers appear in scripture as persons seeking the Kingdom of Heaven. Within the context of this journey, they are recognized by God and blessed accordingly. They are rewarded with spiritual blessings not military success.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

<>< Radically Saved ><>
Staff member
Senior Moderator
#12
People push that tithing was a part of the mosaic law so it's not for us because the law was destroyed.

Fact is it was incorporated into the mosaic law for tithing was around long before Moses.

Many things that were within the law are still apart of our Christian walk today.

We are redeemed from the curse of the law. We no longer depend on the law to get right before God for Jesus took care of that.

So if one has an issue with tithing then that's between them and God but please don't try and convince others that it's wrong.
Blessings
 
Amens/Likes: Cturtle
#13
People push that tithing was a part of the mosaic law so it's not for us because the law was destroyed.

Fact is it was incorporated into the mosaic law for tithing was around long before Moses.

Many things that were within the law are still apart of our Christian walk today.

We are redeemed from the curse of the law. We no longer depend on the law to get right before God for Jesus took care of that.

So if one has an issue with tithing then that's between them and God but please don't try and convince others that it's wrong.
Blessings
You may be right about preHistoric requirements to tithe, but it is not in the New Covenant either in word or inference. If its not in the Bible, then it is not legitimate doctrine.

The Law was not destroyed or abolished. Jesus said so quoted in Mathew 5:17. It's God's Law. He ought to know.

"We no longer depend upon the Law?", you write but Paul writes in Romans 7:7-25 that the purpose of the Law is to convict of sin. We cannot know what sin is without the Law. The Law is the standard of righteous behavior established by God. Jewish custom or Kosher Law was established by man/Jews, not God. There is a big difference between stealing your neighbor's goods and eating a cheese burger. One is a sin. One is not.

The purpose of the Law is to convict of sin.

Which portion of the Law has been destroyed? Which portion of the Law requires tithing? Look and see.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Neither sinner nor the just are exempt from obedience to the Law, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14. Since the Law shows us our sin (conviction of sin), we may turn to God for forgiveness of our sins. This forgiveness removes our sin, but NEVER justifies continuation in sin. Under grace, we do not live in lawLESSness, but in obedience of the Law which we could not do without grace. Therefore Jesus commands us TO BE PERFECT as per the Law. It IS possible to live a perfect life, tithing notwithstanding.

Many Christians have a problem with grace and Law, and assume that wickedness apart from the Law is allowed. The Mosaic Law is universal and eternal. It has not been broken or abolished by Jesus. Jesus has fulfilled it's requirement for the debt that is owed for sin. Jewish tradition, ceremonial procedures, and/or Kosher Law does not carry the weight of Mosaic Law because it doesn't convict of sin.

If you eat bacon for breakfast or a cheese burger for lunch does that make you a sinner? Certainly not. The Bible expressly states that Gentiles are not required to observe Kosher Law if they don't want to do so. (They aren't required to abide by Roman Catholic custom and eat fish on Friday or fast during Lent, either.)

Do you see the difference between law of tradition and Mosaic Law?

There is a difference between Kosher Law and Mosaic Law (10 Commandments or The Royal Law). Violation of Mosaic Law is sin for all, but violation of Kosher Law is a violation of Jewish custom only. Jesus' sacrifice on the cross fulfilled the requirements of Mosaic Law, but the Mosaic Law was not abolished. Kosher Law may be ignored by Gentiles as Paul states in Romans.

Salvation is free - meaning there is no religious tax attached to it at all. If tithing is required as a work, then of what advantage is the cross to us? None at all if you follow Kosher Law (of which tithing is a part). Tithing as a dues payment for membership in the church is a moral tradition - NOT of Mosaic Law.

If you fail to tithe your income will you go to hell? Of course not. The church building may fall into disrepair and the pastor may have to go out and sell magazines, but you won't burn in hell for it. Tithing is Kosher Law - not required of gentiles. Mosaic Law is required of everyone both sinner and the just alike.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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