Rahab - Can lying be justified?

[Naaman]

After reading Hebrews 11, it struck me that she was mentioned among so many legendary OT names as examples of faith. James also alludes to her as an example. And, of course, her name appears in Matthew in the genealogical line of Jesus.

So, I jumped back to Joshua 2 to take another look at her story. It gave me a newfound appreciation for what her faith represents: boldness, Godly fear, redemption, etc.

But I also noticed that she blatantly lied twice to the men of the King of Jericho in order to protect the Jewish spies. We can certainly argue they were lies for a good cause. However, a lie is a lie is a sin. Not judging as I am certain I would do the same. I am caught between two thoughts on the matter though:

1. Rahab showed imperfect faith (don't we all?) and should have refrained from lying and trusted God.

2. Lying is justifiable in certain circumstances.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this. God bless!

 

[Major]

After reading Hebrews 11, it struck me that she was mentioned among so many legendary OT names as examples of faith. James also alludes to her as an example. And, of course, her name appears in Matthew in the genealogical line of Jesus.

So, I jumped back to Joshua 2 to take another look at her story. It gave me a newfound appreciation for what her faith represents: boldness, Godly fear, redemption, etc.

But I also noticed that she blatantly lied twice to the men of the King of Jericho in order to protect the Jewish spies. We can certainly argue they were lies for a good cause. However, a lie is a lie is a sin. Not judging as I am certain I would do the same. I am caught between two thoughts on the matter though:

1. Rahab showed imperfect faith (don't we all?) and should have refrained from lying and trusted God.

2. Lying is justifiable in certain circumstances.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this. God bless!

Did Rahab lie?...............YES!

Was the lie justified?...YES!

Why????.........................Because Rahab was not lying in order to excuse or exalt herself, but to protect the people called by God.
IMHO, Rahab did not lie. Rather, she spoke true words that concealed the truth. Indeed, Jesus himself spoke in parables in order to reveal and conceal, and thus it is not necessarily immoral to withhold information or speak so as to hide information.

Now, lets suppose that YOU are in France and it is 1942. You are hiding 4 Jews in your attic and the Nazi guards knock on your door. YOU know that their job is to collect all Jews and kill the, Do YOU say....."well yes, there are four Jews in the attic", or do you say......
"I have no idea what you are looking for"!

It should be noted that the context of warfare applies. Yet, in such instances, lying is often the result of insufficient wisdom. It is conceivable, that if someone had infinite wisdom in such situations, they could hide the truth with the truth.

 

[Naaman]

Did Rahab lie?...............YES!

Was the lie justified?...YES!

Why????.........................Because Rahab was not lying in order to excuse or exalt herself, but to protect the people called by God.
IMHO, Rahab did not lie. Rather, she spoke true words that concealed the truth. Indeed, Jesus himself spoke in parables in order to reveal and conceal, and thus it is not necessarily immoral to withhold information or speak so as to hide information.

Now, lets suppose that YOU are in France and it is 1942. You are hiding 4 Jews in your attic and the Nazi guards knock on your door. YOU know that their job is to collect all Jews and kill the, Do YOU say....."well yes, there are four Jews in the attic", or do you say......
"I have no idea what you are looking for"!

It should be noted that the context of warfare applies. Yet, in such instances, lying is often the result of insufficient wisdom. It is conceivable, that if someone had infinite wisdom in such situations, they could hide the truth with the truth.

This was (is) my line of thinking.

However, I have spoken to two pastors separately who held the opinion that a lie is a lie. She could have told the truth and trusted God. She could have refused to answer and trusted God. She could have told A truth (there are no guilty men here) and trusted God.

While I respect their opinions, I believe as you do. God knows our hearts. God knows the motivation of a lie such as Rahab's.

Thank you for the response!

 

[Origen]

And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.” (1 Kings 22:22-23)

And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The LORD has declared disaster concerning you.” (1 Chron. 18:21-22)

 

[Naaman]

And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be ha lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.” (1 Kings 22:22-23)

And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The LORD has declared disaster concerning you.” (1 Chron. 18:21-22)

Thank you! When I get home tonight I will be digging into both passages for more context.

 

[bobinfaith]

Did Rahab lie?...............YES! Was the lie justified?...YES! Why????.........................Because Rahab was not lying in order to excuse or exalt herself, but to protect the people called by God.

However, I have spoken to two pastors separately who held the opinion that a lie is a lie. She could have told the truth and trusted God. She could have refused to answer and trusted God. She could have told A truth (there are no guilty men here) and trusted God.

Good morning, Naaman;

Many times when we look to God during our extreme circumstances He will lead us to make decisions that does not align with Scripture making it nonsensical.

Rahab was protecting the people called by God during Jericho's warfare and conflict against the Almighty.

God bless your two Pastor friends. They may interpret Rahab in Joshua 2 as "lying is a lie is a lie." That's ok. We're all continued students of God's Word for a lifetime.

Thank you, Naaman.

Bob

 

[Origen]

Thank you! When I get home tonight I will be digging into both passages for more context.

Consider this example. The LORD tells Samual to go and anoint David as King.

"The Lord said to Samuel, How long will you grieve over Saul, since I have rejected him from being king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil, and go. I will send you to Jesse the Bethlehemite, for I have provided for myself a king among his sons.” (1 Sam. 16:1)

Samuel is worried about doing this, what if Saul hears about it. He could have Samuel murdered.

"And Samuel said, “How can I go? If Saul hears it, he will kill me.” (v. 2)

So God tells Samuel:

"Take a heifer with you and say, I have come to sacrifice to the Lord." (v. 2)

Clearly the sacrifice was used as a subterfuge in order to deceive Saul and cover Samuel's true intention which was to anoint David as king.

 

[Major]

This was (is) my line of thinking.

However, I have spoken to two pastors separately who held the opinion that a lie is a lie. She could have told the truth and trusted God. She could have refused to answer and trusted God. She could have told A truth (there are no guilty men here) and trusted God.

While I respect their opinions, I believe as you do. God knows our hearts. God knows the motivation of a lie such as Rahab's.

Thank you for the response!

Now, please do not take this the wrong way........sometimes, and I have NO earthly idea who you spoke to, but men give the proper answer when in fact they know that what they are saying is not what human nature dictates or even allows.

In that way, they keep the religious "high road" when in fact they know that not even they would do what they are saying someone else should do.

I would venture to say, "IF" the truth was told.........that those who you spoke to who said a lie is a lie, also told their children that Santa Clause was coming at Christmas time IF they were good!........A lie is a lie-----right!!!

Take it a step further............If a lie is a lie have you or anyone you know of said...............
Told someone they look great in an outfit that you thought was hideous so that you would not hurt their feelings?
Saying that you are on your way to meet someone so you can't stay and chat with them?
Have you ever Laughed at a joke that wasn't really funny.
Telling someone that you'll call them later but you did not want to talk with them at all?
Saying that you didn't see a text that someone sent you when in fact you did?

 

[bobinfaith]

Good morning;

When my wife and I were engaged I tried to impress her with my "sense of humor." She would "fake laugh." I knew she wasn't being honest so I thanked her for laughing just to be polite. Then she really started laughing.

lol!

 

[Naaman]

Now, please do not take this the wrong way........sometimes, and I have NO earthly idea who you spoke to, but men give the proper answer when in fact they know that what they are saying is not what human nature dictates or even allows.

In that way, they keep the religious "high road" when in fact they know that not even they would do what they are saying someone else should do.

I would venture to say, "IF" the truth was told.........that those who you spoke to who said a lie is a lie, also told their children that Santa Clause was coming at Christmas time IF they were good!........A lie is a lie-----right!!!

Take it a step further............If a lie is a lie have you or anyone you know of said...............
Told someone they look great in an outfit that you thought was hideous so that you would not hurt their feelings?
Saying that you are on your way to meet someone so you can't stay and chat with them?
Have you ever Laughed at a joke that wasn't really funny.
Telling someone that you'll call them later but you did not want to talk with them at all?
Saying that you didn't see a text that someone sent you when in fact you did?

Absolutely. Although I am betting one of them didn't do the Santa Claus thing with his kid either. He's not a big fan of secular Christmas.

 

[bobinfaith]

Now, please do not take this the wrong way........sometimes, and I have NO earthly idea who you spoke to, but men give the proper answer when in fact they know that what they are saying is not what human nature dictates or even allows. In that way, they keep the religious "high road" when in fact they know that not even they would do what they are saying someone else should do. I would venture to say, "IF" the truth was told.........that those who you spoke to who said a lie is a lie, also told their children that Santa Clause was coming at Christmas time IF they were good!........A lie is a lie-----right!!! Take it a step further............If a lie is a lie have you or anyone you know of said...............Told someone they look great in an outfit that you thought was hideous so that you would not hurt their feelings? Saying that you are on your way to meet someone so you can't stay and chat with them?
Have you ever Laughed at a joke that wasn't really funny. Telling someone that you'll call them later but you did not want to talk with them at all?
Saying that you didn't see a text that someone sent you when in fact you did?

Absolutely. Although I am betting one of them didn't do the Santa Claus thing with his kid either. He's not a big fan of secular Christmas.

Hello Major and Naaman;

Ok, brothers, humor me on this one. When you were both kids what did your parents teach you in your homes about Santa Claus? If you grew up believing or not believing how did you celebrate Christ's birth at home?

I have to admit, my parents did a good job convincing their 7 kids that "Santa was real so you're better watch out!"

When Dad was stationed in England we called Santa - Father Christmas.

We had fun growing up during Christmas. It was magic up to my 10th year. I actually believed in Santa Claus up to 10 years old (yet we went to Church each Sunday.)

What did you tell your children when you became a parent?

God bless you all.

Bob

 

[Naaman]

Hello Major and Naaman;

Ok, brothers, humor me on this one. When you were both kids what did your parents teach you in your homes about Santa Claus? If you grew up believing or not believing how did you celebrate Christ's birth at home?

I have to admit, my parents did a good job convincing their 7 kids that "Santa was real so you're better watch out!"

When Dad was stationed in England we called Santa - Father Christmas.

We had fun growing up during Christmas. It was magic up to my 10th year. I actually believed in Santa Claus up to 10 years old (yet we went to Church each Sunday.)

What did you tell your children when you became a parent?

God bless you all.

Bob

My parents (not overly religious) were full Santa.

I had no problem with the Santa "lie" with my kids. It's part of being a child and in my opinion is harmless. I also make sure to teach that Christmas is meant as the celebration of the birth of Christ our Savior.

Sometimes I wonder if I am misguided by celebrating the secular/pagan aspects of Americanized Christmas. But in the end, I am content knowing that God knows my heart.

Halloween, on the other hand...

 

[crossnote]

Earlier a similar dilemma unfolded with the midwives in Egypt...
Exodus 1:15-21 KJV
And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah: [16] And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. [17] But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. [18] And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? [19] And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. [20] Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty. [21] And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

They lied, in faith yet God blessed them.

 

[crossnote]

I had no problem with the Santa "lie" with my kids. It's part of being a child and in my opinion is harmless. I also make sure to teach that Christmas is meant as the celebration of the birth of Christ our Savior.

We never mentioned Santa to our daughter fearing when she found out we had lied to her, the trust aspect would be diminished. Agreed on the 'celebration' part.

 

[BibleLover]

We never mentioned Santa to our daughter fearing when she found out we had lied to her, the trust aspect would be diminished. Agreed on the 'celebration' part.

When I raised my son, to avoid the Santa Claus problem, I adopted the German custom of having St. Nicholas Day on December 6th on which we hung and filled stockings and having Christ Child Day on December 25th on which we exchanged gifts. Santa Claus was never a part of Christmas for my family or my son.

 

[crossnote]

When I raised my son, to avoid the Santa Claus problem, I adopted the German custom of having St. Nicholas Day on December 6th on which we hung and filled stockings and having Christ Child Day on December 25th on which we exchanged gifts. Santa Claus was never a part of Christmas for my family or my son.

no Weihnachtsmann or Christkind?

 

[BibleLover]

no Weihnachtsmann or Christkind?

Weihnachtsmann, no, but Christkind, yes without the supernatural trappings.

 

[Major]

Hello Major and Naaman;

Ok, brothers, humor me on this one. When you were both kids what did your parents teach you in your homes about Santa Claus? If you grew up believing or not believing how did you celebrate Christ's birth at home?

I have to admit, my parents did a good job convincing their 7 kids that "Santa was real so you're better watch out!"

When Dad was stationed in England we called Santa - Father Christmas.

We had fun growing up during Christmas. It was magic up to my 10th year. I actually believed in Santa Claus up to 10 years old (yet we went to Church each Sunday.)

What did you tell your children when you became a parent?

God bless you all.

Bob

YES!

I did not know the truth until about the 2nd grade.

I told my kids that "I" was the one who gave them gifts.

 

[Major]

My parents (not overly religious) were full Santa.

I had no problem with the Santa "lie" with my kids. It's part of being a child and in my opinion is harmless. I also make sure to teach that Christmas is meant as the celebration of the birth of Christ our Savior.

Sometimes I wonder if I am misguided by celebrating the secular/pagan aspects of Americanized Christmas. But in the end, I am content knowing that God knows my heart.

Halloween, on the other hand...

Absolulty agreed on Halloween!

To this day, I am amazed at Christians who participate and churches that do Trunk or Treat or Fall Festivals.

Those are nothing more than compromize and asking the world to come on in!

 

[crossnote]

From Rahab to Rudolph to goblins in one thread, not bad, not good either. lol