Religion Is Not Biblical Thing

[Jutta H.]

You may be the only Wiccan here. Welcome to this forum.

What brought you to the conclusion that Paganism is right out of curiosity?

I have never thought that Christians want to know nothing of other religions. But this is a Christian forum, therefore Christian topics should be here in the foreground. I only have mentioned this with my faith so that others can see; that I on the one hand am not a Christian; and on the other hand that I have a certain distance to a certain kind of Christianity.

 

[Jutta H.]

Now I have a question for you, ...I've heard that when joining the church of wicca you sign your name with your blood and when it dries it is black, is that true, I have also heard that when a wiccan renounces satan and turns to the King of Kings, Jesus Christ, washed by the BLOOD of the Lamb, that same blood in the book turns green, it that true also?

This is nonsense!
If I am initiated in Wicca; at first once I must have at least a year and a day been instructed in the BASICs. And examinations put down about it.
This initiation happens without blood neither genuine nor symbolical blood.
Wicca are not Satanists. We do not believe in Satan but we believe in the divine. Depending on tradition either to a God;several gods or one or several goddesses. I am e.g. a Wicca in the dianic tradition and I honor the triune goddess who consists of virgin, mother and wisely old.

 

[Jutta H.]

What is TS? Are we talking about Turner Syndrome? What's the relevance of this?

The Turner syndrome is part of intersexuality. The abbreviation TS means transsexualism. So if a man is biologically obviously affiliated to a sex/gender; the psyche has, however, another sex/gender. To here this an interesting internet page:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I have never thought that Christians want to know nothing of other religions. But this is a Christian forum, therefore Christian topics should be here in the foreground. I only have mentioned this with my faith so that others can see; that I on the one hand am not a Christian; and on the other hand that I have a certain distance to a certain kind of Christianity.

How could I conclude to be a Christian if I don't even learn about other religions? In fact, how could I even begin to defend the Christian faith if I know nothing about other religions? That would be an argument to ignorance.

You're certainly welcome here. As a non-Christian, what drove you to this forum?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

The Turner syndrome is part of intersexuality. The abbreviation TS means transsexualism. So if a man is biologically obviously affiliated to a sex/gender; the psyche has, however, another sex/gender. To here this an interesting internet page:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

I understand. This is something I think many Christians are divided on. A couple of months ago, I think there was a disagreement between the case for homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. etc.

My position was that to pursue homosexuality was itself a sin, but the neurology behind it isn't as it is something one is born with as an abnormality.

Just as someone might be born with a disorder where they have an anger tendency or a tendency to cause harm, it's not their fault that they have this tendency, but it accept the action caused by the tendency as OK would be flawed.

This is a very general explanation and also watered down. I think the discussion is always a worth-while one.

What made you bring up TS?

 

[Jutta H.]

You're certainly welcome here. As a non-Christian, what drove you to this forum?

I hate all Christians and want to destroy the forum.
This was only a joke. In reality I am here for three reasons.
The first reason is, I would like to understand why so in an overly pious way and hypocritically am some Christians (looked from my viewpoint)
My sister, a BA Christian who lives in Oklahoma, is the second reason and has broken off the contact to me (because of TS) and her other children. Broken off has because my niece and my nephew do not correspond to her new faith.
And the third and last reason has to do something with that that I like to talk to other people about religion and philosophy.

 

[Jutta H.]

My position was that to pursue homosexuality was itself a sin, but the neurology behind it isn't as it is something one is born with as an abnormality.
Just as someone might be born with a disorder where they have an anger tendency or a tendency to cause harm, it's not their fault that they have this tendency, but it accept the action caused by the tendency as OK would be flawed.
This is a very general explanation and also watered down. I think the discussion is always a worth-while one.

I understand you correctly (and please correct me if I understand a little wrongly), It is ok to be gay or transsexual, one only must not live it.
Am I correct?
If and I suspect once that you refer to the Bible yes; you think, which the Bible homosexuality as a sin forbids. This is not that way. read once the " Kittel's, Theological Dictionary of a The New Testament, " about roman 1:25 and there special, what; and 1st Corinthian stands. And this is alone the language aspect.
Whoever is homosexual or transsexual has a RIGHT to live this also responsibly. Homosexuals who have a partner and do not hop from a bed in the next are included.
If you do not live if something which corresponds to the identity of its own and nobody; wpold have had physical and spiritual harm/illness.
I had very serious depressions, two suicide attempts and alcohol problems, ahead before my CO. After the CO I did not have this any more.

What made you bring up TS?

This is a very long story. To tell her into shortened form:
Already as a little child I was more like a girl as a "real" boy. I preferred to play with dolls than with cars or soccer. I preferred to help my mother in the kitchen, as to repair something with my father. When the puberty came, I panicked. I don't want to have this disgusting piece of meat between my legs and it wanted to come off with scissors. My mother caught me and thrashed me. But this was nothing against the blows which I got of father.
I was afraid, replaced everything. I even got married and became a "father". Was the reason that I got dependent on alcohol, depressive and suicidal and this replace. Something which first changed when I accepted me myself and had examined psychologically me.

 

[BusyDarling]

Wow, so much pain, Jutta!

I have no answer for you in regards to homosexuality and transsexuality, I can not judge. All I know is that the world is broken.

I'm not your 'standard' woman, but that's OK. God made me how He saw best, not how society saw best.
With regards to homosexuality: I am 'bisexual', as in, I could have, and have had, those feelings for women too. I never had issues with it. I also, even when I was a non-believer, knew that despite those feelings, it would not work for me to be with a woman. That's my story, nothing more, but apparently for me it holds true that those feelings happen to be against my nature. (Puzzling, right?)

 

[Panda]

Jutta is no longer with us, by her own choice.

I have been considering the issue of homosexuality more and more lately. I'm just not satisfied with the way it is handled in churches or by Christians on nearly any side of the issue. If I ever come to a real, solid conclusion I might share it at some point, but don't count on it. No conclusion I could come to would likely make both sides happy (or even either side for that matter).

 

[BusyDarling]

Ah ok missed that bit!
But, I'm wondering about that too. Would love to know what you come up with IF you do!

 

[Panda]

Ah ok missed that bit!
But, I'm wondering about that too. Would love to know what you come up with IF you do!

Well, the gist of it is less focus on the right or wrong of the situation, and more on what we should do about it as Christians. We cannot excuse or promote sin, but I also don't see a much of a point in constantly hammering people over the head with it. Telling a homosexual that they are sinning is like telling the president to paint the White House purple, or going to a foreign country and harassing them because their laws are the same as they are in your country. It's just completely ineffective and divisive. We can trust the Holy Spirit to convict Christians of sin, so I don't understand why we would need to attack sinners and expect them to stop their sin, when most Christians today believe that they sin themselves daily. It just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[BusyDarling]

Well, the gist of it is less focus on the right or wrong of the situation, and more on what we should do about it as Christians. We cannot excuse or promote sin, but I also don't see a much of a point in constantly hammering people over the head with it. Telling a homosexual that they are sinning is like telling the president to paint the White House purple, or going to a foreign country and harassing them because their laws are the same as they are in your country. It's just completely ineffective and divisive. We can trust the Holy Spirit to convict Christians of sin, so I don't understand why we would need to attack sinners and expect them to stop their sin, when most Christians today believe that they sin themselves daily. It just doesn't seem logical to me.

That I agree with.
Although, a purple White House would be an interesting sight.
Marginalising people doesn't seem like a very graceful thing to do, does it?

 

[Panda]

That I agree with.
Although, a purple White House would be an interesting sight.
Marginalising people doesn't seem like a very graceful thing to do, does it?

Well, our primary jobs are to love God, love people, and preach the Gospel. That should come first.

There is an aspect of Christianity that also requires us to teach the truth and reveal sin, but that does not trump either love or the Gospel. It just seems that far too often, I see people first judging sin. I always found it weird that with all other sins, Christians marginalize it, but with homosexuality, they make it a HUGE priority. It just doesn't seem balanced to me. In other cases, homosexuality is SO marginalized that gay pastors will be ordained. That doesn't make much sense to me either. I don't know where I will ultimately settle on the issue, but it seems to me that Christians on both sides of the issue largely just don't have the right attitude about it. I'm not sure what the attitude should be exactly, but I know what I'm seeing doesn't work.

 

[Mr. Darby]

The ideal is to uphold God's righteous standard that the unsaved may see that they have fallen short of God's expectations and see their need for Christ. I think our attitude towards practicing homosexuals should be same as our attitudes towards drunks, adulterers, drug addicts, liars, ect. However, in some ways, homosexual activity has an especial seriousness about it, since it's prevalence in society is a sign of God's reprobation.

 

[Glomung]

From my point of view, homosexuality is just another case of misdirected lust.
The sexually active gay man or woman sins no more than a cheating husband or a sexually active
unmarried heterosexual. The problem is that they are treating people who are not their spouse as if
they were their spouse. Sort of like theft, treating someone else's property as if it were your own.
This is an oversimplification, as there are an assortment of other sins mixed in the behaviors that lead
up to sex outside of marriage, but that's the gist of it (IMNSHO).

 

[Panda]

The ideal is to uphold God's righteous standard that the unsaved may see that they have fallen short of God's expectations and see their need for Christ. I think our attitude towards practicing homosexuals should be same as our attitudes towards drunks, adulterers, drug addicts, liars, ect. However, in some ways, homosexual activity has an especial seriousness about it, since it's prevalence in society is a sign of God's reprobation.

Except...the attitude ISN'T the same. In fact, I've seen way, WAY too many Christians attack homosexuality, but also boast about how they are the worst of sinners themselves. That simply doesn't make any sense to me. It honestly just comes across as a bit too hypocritical to me. Either all sin is wrong, or all sin is covered. It's the picking and choosing that really seems to be inconsistent to me.

 

[Panda]

From my point of view, homosexuality is just another case of misdirected lust.
The sexually active gay man or woman sins no more than a cheating husband or a sexually active
unmarried heterosexual. The problem is that they are treating people who are not their spouse as if
they were their spouse. Sort of like theft, treating someone else's property as if it were your own.
This is an oversimplification, as there are an assortment of other sins mixed in the behaviors that lead
up to sex outside of marriage, but that's the gist of it (IMNSHO).

I think that is a healthy way to look at it. And at least on paper, a fairly common view. But in action, it's not really practiced by many. I see it around here and elsewhere all the time. It's claimed that they are the same, but I've rarely seen Christians attack fornicators in the same way they attack homosexuals, and I'm not sure "attack" is really an appropriate thing to begin with. It's really the inconsistency that bothers me. Sin is sin.

 

[Mr. Darby]

Except...the attitude ISN'T the same. In fact, I've seen way, WAY too many Christians attack homosexuality, but also boast about how they are the worst of sinners themselves. That simply doesn't make any sense to me. It honestly just comes across as a bit too hypocritical to me. Either all sin is wrong, or all sin is covered. It's the picking and choosing that really seems to be inconsistent to me.

No it isn't. I have to confess that I think the gay activists have a point when they mention the fact that fornication is rampant in our churches and it is not condemned, while homosexuals outside the church are vilified continually. I think, as Christians, our attitude should be more focused on judging the immorality in our own midst.

 

[Panda]

In any case, I'm not going to allow this thread to continue along these lines much longer. I'm sorry that I diverted it from it's original purpose, but I felt that there was a need to address the situation.

 

[Panda]

No it isn't. I have to confess that I think the gay activists have a point when they mention the fact that fornication is rampant in our churches and it is not condemned, while homosexuals outside the church are vilified continually. I think, as Christians, our attitude should be more focused on judging the immorality in our own midst.

You have no idea how much I agree with this statement.