Revelation

[DavyP]

Revelation 6:3..........
" And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

Now comes a Firey RED horse. = WAR!

Red of course is the color of blood.

This matches the prophecies of Jesus perfectly in Matthew 24:5...........
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." = Rider on the white horse in verse #1.

Matthew 24:6.........
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Yes.....wars have existed since Cain killed Abel. But Israel was NOT IN THE LAND until 1948.

1. Now, WHY are the 1st 7 judgments SEALS?
Because the Seals portray to us the fact that God's future judgments were ordained in advance and securely held back until God's
time came for Him to release them.

2. Then WHY are the 1st 4 on running horses of different colors??????
Horses display rapid movement covering a lot of ground. This means that when the judgments come, they will be in rapid
succession.

A "great sword" indicates that a lot of people will die. Slaughter on a gigantic scale! Again, the earth has seen thousands of wars but when this RED horse is let loose, the blood shed will be intense and more wide spread than ever before.

1. The Bible indicates that Russia will make war against Israel in Ezek. 38-39.
2. The Muslim nations of the world will make war against Israel in Zech. 14. & Ezek. 38.
3. 200 million Chinese will come into Israel.

The 2nd Seal war horse simply parallels what Jesus said about His 2nd Sign in His Olivet discourse.

2nd Seal Event:
Matt 24:6
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
KJV

The actual time of "great tribulation" does not begin until the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". This event of wars and rumors of wars is NOT about the "great tribulation" time. I know you pre-tribbers hear a lot of the idea that the coming trib is about war from pre-trib authors like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye, but they are wrong. The very 'end' like Jesus showed above, will be about WORLD PEACE.

But PRIOR to the "great tribulation", it will be a time of war. This is what Lord Jesus showed there.

Moreover, the Armageddon event, which is the Ezekiel 38-39 event of the nations that come upon Israel, that is for the very last day of this world on the 7th Vial. So there's no way that happens during the "great tribulation", nor even before the trib.

 

[DavyP]

REVELATION 6:5-.........
"And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand."

Why BLACK? Black represents "famine, and starvation". Famine and starvation always follow WAR because of the unsetteled conditions.
(Lam. 4:8-9......5:10.)

War does not allow farming and if any is done it is stolen by troops going through the land.

We have seen clearly now with the effects of the Covid virus that food shortages can happen anywhere at anytime to everyone.

The Balance of Scales indicates a scarcity of food.

During WAR, famine inflates the price of everything sold. During WW2, inflation was so high and so fast in Germany that when someone picked up a loaf of bread for $1.00, before they could get to the register to pay it would have gone up to $2.00.

TODAY......Gas that is $4.25 a gallon goes up to $4.50 a gallon by the flip of a switch and we are not at war. I say that so as to allow you to consider what it will be like for those left behind after the Rapture.

In 1975, 10,000 people starved to death. In Biafra, at one point, 100,000 a month were dieing of starvation.

During that time, currency will be worthless and precious metals as well.

Lots of people have bought into the idea of buying silver and gold as a hedge against currency losss! WHY??????
Gold and Silver are only valuable to those who LOVE them. Most do not care.

What I am saying is that when you take a $1.00 Gold coin into a store to buy a loaf of bread and YOU paid someone $100.00 for that shinney Gold coin because it was pretty and someone told you it was worth $100.00........you will only get 1 loaf of bread for $1.00 for that gold coin!!!!

Personally, I think hording money is silly! You die and your kids get all your money!!!!

The 3rd Seal, a black horse with a rider holding balances (measuring scales), that is covering by Christ's 3rd Sign in His Olivet discourse...

3rd Seal Event:
Matt 24:7
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
KJV

The idea of a measure of wheat for a penny signifies inflation and famine. But the Oil and Wine are not to be harmed. The OIL in God's Word represents The Holy Spirit, and the Wine represents God's Word full strength, pure, and untainted. It symbolizes that His Word will be understood at the end by His elect, regardless of these events.

 

[DavyP]

REVELATION 6:7
"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

"Pale" is the color John sees because it follows death.

When someone is sick, they become pale and their color changes.

The Greek word here for "Pale" is CHLOROS which is the root for "Chlorophyll" = Yellow/green.
It is the very image of death.

"A forth part of the earth" in the Greek is the word "ge" hence our word "Geology. and can mean that 25 % of the population is slain OR that 25 % of the earth's regions will be affected.

In either case it is seen that man has refused God and now God unleashes his judgment on man .

So what we have in the 4th Horseman is the results of the 1st 3 Horsemen.

Thus these swift four horsemen of the Apocalypse now continue to ride all during the rest of the Tribulation Period.

The generation of the 2nd World War saw wholesale death of humanity. A conservative estimate is that 75 million people died. Another conservative guess is that at least 16 million Jews were exterminated because they were Jews.

If we use the same basis and compare it to today's population we are looking at about 2 billion with a "B"!

Now then........there are 3 deaths =
1. Physical. This is the body. It happens because of Adams sin.
2. Spiritual. This is separation from God. It also comes from Adam as we inherit his nature.
3. Eternal. This is the end death of Rev. 20:14

This 4th Seal is still... not the time of "great tribulation" yet. This is still about a time leading up to the "great tribulation". It is the 4th Sign of Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse:

4th Seal Events:
Matt 24:7-8
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

The rider on the pale horse has the proper name of "Death". Who might that be? It is Satan. He is given power over a 4th part of the earth using those 4 tools. They are symbols, and I believe they represent 4 main categories of controls over this earth:

(speculation only)
"to kill with the sword" = in contrast to Christ's sword which represents His Word that comes out of His Mouth. Satan's sword as his LIES that come out of His mouth, the waters as a flood of Rev.12.

"and with hunger" = famine again, if spiritual then about the famine of Amos 8:11 about God sending in the last days a famine for hearing The Words of The Lord.

"and with death" = spiritual death of one's soul is what the main attack during the trib will be about, which is regarding 'deception' in bowing in false worship to the coming pseudo-Christ with thinking He is God having come to earth.

"and with the beasts of the earth" = the "brute beasts" of Jude and 2 Peter 2, the "tares" Lord Jesus exposed that work behind the scenes, hidden.

Thus the 4 categories of world control - military, economy, religion, political.

I believe that time of working represents the "beginning of sorrows" that Jesus revealed. I believe this is the time we are in right now, the 4th Seal and "beginning of sorrows" leading up to the "great tribulation" in our near future. We are seeing kingdom against kingdom, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

 

[DavyP]

REVELATION 6:9...........
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held."

With the opening of the 5th Seal, we see the souls under the Alter in heaven that have been martyred.

What is the lesson to be learned here?

It is after the wars and disturbances of the 1st four Seals, people are going to blame God and those who worship Him for all these worldly problems. It is not the A/C who is blamed ---but GOD!

Remember now, if I am correct, those who blame God are those who REJECT God but now they will blame Him even though they do not believe that there is a God. That is the definition of IRONIC as well as dumb!

Now, think ahead in the future with the knowledge that YOU have now.

Can you not grasp the fact that those people then will be convinced that if they can just get rid of those religouse nut cases who came to Christ after the Rapture, the world would be a better place to live in. They will view those who refuse the Mark of the A/C as trouble makers and anarchists and THEY are the ones who are holding back peace.

Can you not see how a campaign by the A/C to round up all the Christians and kill them who refuse to worship him and take his Mark?
Does all of that sound like a fairy tale and a script for a movie. May I tell you that what I just said is HISTORICAL FACTS.

That is exactly what a man name HITLER and Nazi Germany did in WW2 with the Jews, killing 10 million! They were rounded up and made to wear a Star of David. Men in this coming day will probably be made to wear a CROSS.

The timing for this 5th Seal is for the very end, and apparently will start immediately prior to the time of "great tribulation" (i.e., starting some time within the first half of Daniel's "one week"). It is the 5th SIGN Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse...

5th Seal Event:
Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.

13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV


The souls under God's Altar are told to wait a little season (tribulation) until their brethren and fellowservants are killed as they were. Some of us are to be delivered up to give a Testimony against the beast for Lord Jesus.

 

[DavyP]

REVELATION 6:12.........
"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood".

Hal Lindsey I think was the 1st to promote the idea that this verse is a description of modern, nuclear warfare in his book..."The Late Great Planet Earth" and it very well may be.
Being an Army veteran, I can testify that all the things mentioned in this Scripture are indicative of a war related event.

Yeah, it's about a war, but not what you're thinking. We must refer to those symbols as given back in the prophets, like Joel 2:12; Joel 2:30-31; Joel 3:15; Matthew 24:29.

But note the next verse which explains that event more...

Rev 6:13
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV

What star of old fell to earth in the old world? Stars in God's Word are also used as a symbol for angels (Rev.9:1; Rev.12:3-4). Satan fell from heaven to earth when he first rebelled against God in the old world, coveting God's Throne. And that idea of "untimely figs" is another giveaway that this part of the 6th Seal is actually about the time of Satan's coming to earth with his angels after the war in heaven of Rev.12:7.

An untimely fig means the winter fig that grows in the winter, but falls off in the spring. It is an early fig. And as God used the idea of figs to represent Judah and the tares, the untimely figs are a warning about Satan coming first as the pseudo-Christ. So the first part of this 6th Seal is actually "great tribulation" timing. It is the 6th SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse:

6th Seal 1st Part:
Matt 24:15-28
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

That above is all about the 6th Seal 1st Part concerning the "untimely figs" and the star falling from heaven (Satan and his angels kicked out of Heaven at the end for the tribulation). The actual time of "great tribulation" will begin when that "abomination of desolation" IDOL is placed inside the new Jewish temple that today's Jews are preparing to build in Jerusalem. That is when the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" will begin, as he will end the Jew's reestablished sacrifices and temple worship that will be of the first half of the "one week", and in the middle is when he will setup that abomination idol inside the temple instead, and demand that all bow in worship to it, just as the historical king of Babylon did with requiring Daniel and his fellows to bow in worship to the golden image of Nebuchadezzar at the sound of the psalter. For the end of this world, it will be the Rev.13 "image of the beast".

That Matthew 24:28 about wheresoever the dead carcase is, that's where the fowls will be gathered together (to feast), that was also revealed by Lord Jesus in Luke 17:37 that's it is about the 1st one 'taken' in the field, which is NOT to Lord Jesus and NOT about a rapture, but instead is about being taken in deception by the pseudo-Christ that comes first, and thus those deceived become like a dead carcase (in the spiritual sense of course).

 

[DavyP]

REVELATION 6:15-17.............
"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains".
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

TODAY, there are those who pray to rocks and trees and frogs.

In this day in these verse, men call on rocks and mountains to hide them. They want to hide from the LAMB of God.

The "Wrath of God" is a PARADOXIAL phrase. That is a college term that is spoken of all the way through the Old Test. prophets, a day that is coming upon the earth and is still in our future. A PARADOX is a proposition which is contrary to a perceived opinion or better said....who in the world would ever think that a "Lamb" could bring forth wrath on the world.

Another example of a PARADOX is that the closer you get to the sun, the hotter you get. Really?????
Climb to the top of Mt. Everest and tell me how hot you are!!!!!!

Have you ever seen a sign saying..........'BEWRE OF THE LAMB INSIDE"???? NO YOU HAVE NOT.
But you have seen the sign saying........"BEWARE OF THE PIT BULL INSIDE!

The 6th Seal with Revelation 6:14-17 verses are the 2nd Part, and represent the day of Christ's future return and pouring out of His cup of wrath upon the wicked, and thus ending this present world. It is the final 7th SIGN Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse...

6th Seal 2nd Part:
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The 7th Seal of Rev.8 represents a pause, a 'selah' like the Psalms. So truly, there are actually only 7 Main SIGNS of the end that Lord Jesus gave us, He simply expanded on them in His Book of Revelation through John.

 

[Dave F.]

Moreover, the Armageddon event, which is the Ezekiel 38-39 event of the nations that come upon Israel, that is for the very last day of this world on the 7th Vial. So there's no way that happens during the "great tribulation", nor even before the trib.

Ezekiel 38 or 39 also says they (Israel) will burn the weapons of war for 7 years. How, then, can this be on the last day of the world?

 

[Major]

You and I disagree on that.

I don't claim to hold to any of those seminary categories; I see them all as trying to 'limit' God's Truth in His Word towards a certain system, an imperfect system of men's doctrines that will always need modifying as time moves forward towards the end. That does not mean I disagree with everything they believe though, as I have been accused of being of all four of those categories, but that will always happen to one who tries to strictly keep to God's Word as written.

One of the things that does not make me a Futurist is that I do not see man's Pre-tribulational Rapture theory written in God's Word. I only see God's Word teaching about Christ's return at the end of the "great tribulation" to begin His "thousand years" reign with His elect.

That is OK brother. But I think that you have to agree that the word TRINITY is not written in the Word of God but we (ME) believe that it is taught all through the Bible.

The phrase...."Salvation is through Jesus Christ ALONE" is not written in the Word of God, but we (ME) certainly accept it as Bible truth taught all through the Bible.

The rules of our site do not allow us to discuss the Rapture as it always leads to confrontation.
However, I think I can say that the term, while not explicit as a noun used in Scripture, is taken from 1 Thess. 4:16-171, which says the Lord will descend from heaven, calling His own. So actually the only question is WHEN will that take place as it is written in the Word of God.

Translation of the word “rapture” comes from Paul’s use of the phrase, “caught up” in verse 17, “the dead in Him will rise first and then “we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them (in the clouds) to meet the Lord in the air.”

The phrase caught up is translated from the Greek, harpazo, which means to snatch up, carry off, or grasp hastily. The translation from harpazo to rapture includes two steps: first, harpazo is raptus in Latin, which then becomes rapture in English.

Given the definitions of the component parts, the Pretribulation Rapture is the belief that believers will be caught up to be with Jesus before the wrath prophesied to occur in the Tribulation.

So then, is the Pretribulation Rapture biblical? My answer is based upon the research I (and so many others) have done.

I don’t know.!!!

None of us knows for sure, however it is what I believe God is saying to me and it gives me great hope for tomarrow!

 

[Major]

The 2nd Seal war horse simply parallels what Jesus said about His 2nd Sign in His Olivet discourse.

2nd Seal Event:
Matt 24:6
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
KJV

The actual time of "great tribulation" does not begin until the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". This event of wars and rumors of wars is NOT about the "great tribulation" time. I know you pre-tribbers hear a lot of the idea that the coming trib is about war from pre-trib authors like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye, but they are wrong. The very 'end' like Jesus showed above, will be about WORLD PEACE.

But PRIOR to the "great tribulation", it will be a time of war. This is what Lord Jesus showed there.

Moreover, the Armageddon event, which is the Ezekiel 38-39 event of the nations that come upon Israel, that is for the very last day of this world on the 7th Vial. So there's no way that happens during the "great tribulation", nor even before the trib.

I do not agree with your thesis Davy.

Ezekiel 38 is a totally seperate event. The seven years of taking spoils (Ezekiel 39:9-10), and the seven months of burying the corpses of the dead army soldiers (Ezekiel 39:11-14) seems to occur at the beginning of the tribulation peroid of Seven years.. There are no timeline problems with that view.

That means that there are 2 Battels of God and Magog. One before the Trib. and one after the 1000 year rule of Christ.

There will be a 7 year Tribulation. The 1st 3 and 1/2 years WILL BE PEACE. Then when the A/C say that he is God, that will begin the GREAT Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24.

Mathhew 24:21.........
"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."

 

[DavyP]

Ezekiel 38 or 39 also says they (Israel) will burn the weapons of war for 7 years. How, then, can this be on the last day of the world?

Are you thinking that this earth is not going to be here after Christ's return, or something like that? See Zechariah 14 which is about the day of Christ's future return and "thousand years" reign on earth.

 

[DavyP]

That is OK brother. But I think that you have to agree that the word TRINITY is not written in the Word of God but we (ME) believe that it is taught all through the Bible.

The phrase...."Salvation is through Jesus Christ ALONE" is not written in the Word of God, but we (ME) certainly accept it as Bible truth taught all through the Bible.

The rules of our site do not allow us to discuss the Rapture as it always leads to confrontation.
However, I think I can say that the term, while not explicit as a noun used in Scripture, is taken from 1 Thess. 4:16-171, which says the Lord will descend from heaven, calling His own. So actually the only question is WHEN will that take place as it is written in the Word of God.

Sorry brother, but looks like you want to discuss the subject of the rapture. I can only leave this with you; Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His Church is after the tribulation, and the gathering points in those verse examples is exactly what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonian 4. So we really don't have to play any guessing games about the time of His future coming and our gathering.

The Signs Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse are what we are supposed to be watching, even though we can't know the day or hour of His coming. Those Signs flow all the way to the 'end' of the tribulation, so that's another Biblical proof of what I'm saying. The Revelation 16:15 verse where He is still commanding His Church to 'watch', even on the 6th Vial timing, is yet another proof that we are still here all the way to the battle of Armageddon.

 

[Major]

The 6th Seal with Revelation 6:14-17 verses are the 2nd Part, and represent the day of Christ's future return and pouring out of His cup of wrath upon the wicked, and thus ending this present world. It is the final 7th SIGN Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse...

6th Seal 2nd Part:
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

The 7th Seal of Rev.8 represents a pause, a 'selah' like the Psalms. So truly, there are actually only 7 Main SIGNS of the end that Lord Jesus gave us, He simply expanded on them in His Book of Revelation through John.

Davy.........I will be more than happy to talk with you but today when I opened the Forum site, I had 24 responses from you. May I suggest to you that you choose ONE Scripture, or TWO and your comments and we can talk about them. I can not process and respond to 24 at one time.

Always good to talk to you!

 

[Major]

Sorry brother, but looks like you want to discuss the subject of the rapture. I can only leave this with you; Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His Church is after the tribulation, and the gathering points in those verse examples is exactly what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonian 4. So we really don't have to play any guessing games about the time of His future coming and our gathering.

Thedddddddcd qcddedeseeeeeeeeeerddreeessssseewww

I would love to discuss that topic with you and the Bible referrence to it, but our rules do not aloow it.

I would say however that our rules will allow me to say that I do not agree with you on the gathering of the saints. I think we need to leave it at that and go onto something else.

 

[DavyP]

I do not agree with your thesis Davy.

Ezekiel 38 is a totally seperate event. The seven years of taking spoils (Ezekiel 39:9-10), and the seven months of burying the corpses of the dead army soldiers (Ezekiel 39:11-14) seems to occur at the beginning of the tribulation peroid of Seven years.. There are no timeline problems with that view.

That is an impossible view of the Ezekiel 38 & 39 Scripture. I don't know where you are getting that. The alignment of nations given in Ezekiel 38 has already been at work, the only nation yet to be aligned there with Russia today is Togarmah, which represents modern day Turkey (a muslim nation). That army won't come upon Israel until the last day of this world. It is what the battle on the "day of the Lord" is about per Zechariah 14, Zephaniah 3:8-9, and Revelation 16 (7th Vial), and Revelation 19 about Lord Jesus coming on a white horse.

The gathering of the bones in the valley of Hamon-gog is right after the last day of this present world. That day is when Jesus will fight with His army of Rev.19 and Zechariah 14. The Ezekiel 39 chapter in the latter verses is God revealing how He on that day will cause the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" know who they are, and what they did of old to cause Him to scatter them (see Ezekiel 39:22-29).

The Ezekiel 39: 17-20 verses are actually about the last day too, with the "supper of the great God" of Rev.19:17.

Then the Ezekiel 39:21-29 verses are about the event of Christ gathering the believing remnant of the children of Israel (including lost ten tribes Israel), the believing Gentiles with them (per Isaiah).

So I don't see how in the world one can say those events are about any other time than the very 'last day' of this present world. Then the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters are all... future Millennial chapters, with Ezekiel 48 representing the new heavens and earth time. Ezekiel 47 shows the return of God's River back to this earth, with the Tree of Life, which is actually going to be a Millennium event for Christ's "thousand years" reign.

Now I realize the Pre-trib Rapture school tries to teach that the "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation", but that is not true per God's written Word. The "day of the Lord" happens on the final... day of this present world, which is exactly what the Zechariah 14 Scripture is showing. And sorry, you are not going to be able to convince me to leave that Scripture truth for a doctrine of man.

That means that there are 2 Battels of God and Magog. One before the Trib. and one after the 1000 year rule of Christ.

There will be a 7 year Tribulation. The 1st 3 and 1/2 years WILL BE PEACE. Then when the A/C say that he is God, that will begin the GREAT Tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24.

Mathhew 24:21.........
"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."

The Gog-Magog of Revelation 20 is for AFTER ... Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

If you will notice, there is no nation alignment given in the Rev.20 example, which means the Gog-Magog title is being used for the unsaved nations which Satan will deceive in final at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

 

[DavyP]

Davy.........I will be more than happy to talk with you but today when I opened the Forum site, I had 24 responses from you. May I suggest to you that you choose ONE Scripture, or TWO and your comments and we can talk about them. I can not process and respond to 24 at one time.

Always good to talk to you!

I'm simply responding to what you asked me about checking out your study on Revelation, as you even asked me for my input. Not trying to be mean, but if you didn't want to know, you should not have asked. I'm not trying to defame what you teach, but I am not going to go against the written Word of God either. So if you want me to leave this forum because you think what I reveal doesn't agree with your teaching, then just say so and I will leave. My aim is not to cause consternation, but to help build the Faith of our brethren in Christ Jesus, and get them to be 'watching' like Lord Jesus commanded us.

 

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[Major]

I'm simply responding to what you asked me about checking out your study on Revelation, as you even asked me for my input. Not trying to be mean, but if you didn't want to know, you should not have asked. I'm not trying to defame what you teach, but I am not going to go against the written Word of God either. So if you want me to leave this forum because you think what I reveal doesn't agree with your teaching, then just say so and I will leave. My aim is not to cause consternation, but to help build the Faith of our brethren in Christ Jesus, and get them to be 'watching' like Lord Jesus commanded us.

Do you think that my asking you to just do ONE scripture at a time was a reason to say..........
"Not trying to be mean, but if you didn't want to know, you should not have asked."

And when did I ask you to leave the forum??????

I just asked you to respond to ONE at a time instead of 24.

Why so defensive? Anyone here will tell you that I will talk with anyone about anything so I have NO clue where you are coming from.

As always, be carefull and may God bless you.

 

[Major]

That is an impossible view of the Ezekiel 38 & 39 Scripture. I don't know where you are getting that. The alignment of nations given in Ezekiel 38 has already been at work, the only nation yet to be aligned there with Russia today is Togarmah, which represents modern day Turkey (a muslim nation). That army won't come upon Israel until the last day of this world. It is what the battle on the "day of the Lord" is about per Zechariah 14, Zephaniah 3:8-9, and Revelation 16 (7th Vial), and Revelation 19 about Lord Jesus coming on a white horse.

The gathering of the bones in the valley of Hamon-gog is right after the last day of this present world. That day is when Jesus will fight with His army of Rev.19 and Zechariah 14. The Ezekiel 39 chapter in the latter verses is God revealing how He on that day will cause the ten tribes of the "house of Israel" know who they are, and what they did of old to cause Him to scatter them (see Ezekiel 39:22-29).

The Ezekiel 39: 17-20 verses are actually about the last day too, with the "supper of the great God" of Rev.19:17.

Then the Ezekiel 39:21-29 verses are about the event of Christ gathering the believing remnant of the children of Israel (including lost ten tribes Israel), the believing Gentiles with them (per Isaiah).

So I don't see how in the world one can say those events are about any other time than the very 'last day' of this present world. Then the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 chapters are all... future Millennial chapters, with Ezekiel 48 representing the new heavens and earth time. Ezekiel 47 shows the return of God's River back to this earth, with the Tree of Life, which is actually going to be a Millennium event for Christ's "thousand years" reign.

Now I realize the Pre-trib Rapture school tries to teach that the "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation", but that is not true per God's written Word. The "day of the Lord" happens on the final... day of this present world, which is exactly what the Zechariah 14 Scripture is showing. And sorry, you are not going to be able to convince me to leave that Scripture truth for a doctrine of man.


The Gog-Magog of Revelation 20 is for AFTER ... Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

If you will notice, there is no nation alignment given in the Rev.20 example, which means the Gog-Magog title is being used for the unsaved nations which Satan will deceive in final at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

Davy, I appreciate your view. I am also respectful of your knowledge. I am afraid that I do not agree with it, but I respect it.

As for me, I’m convinced there are TWO confrontations between Gog/Magog and the Lord. When people refer to the Battle of Gog/Magog they usually mean Ezekiel 38, which many scholars place before the Great Tribulation and I agree with that position also.

I also believe it has to be there for a couple of reasons. First it protects the chronological integrity of the Book of Ezekiel, since Chapters 38 and 39 appear before Ezekiel’s 9 chapter prophecy of the Millennium. And second, I believe the battle of chapters 38-39 serves as Israel’s wake up call, bringing them back into their covenant relationship with God as seen in Exekiel 39:22. This paves the way for the commencement of Daniel’s 70th Week.

Now you are totally free to have your opinion and as I said, I respect it.

Now, the reference in Rev. 20 about Gog and Magog, is to Satan’s last effort against God and brings the Millennium to a close. In case you did not know, I believe that Gog is a supernatural figure, Satan, or a powerful demon or perhaps the General of Satan’s army.

In Ezekiel 38 Magog is normally associated with the Russians or peoples of the north country. But since Rev. 20:8 says that Satan’s army will come from the four corners of Earth, Magog is more likely used there in it’s widest sense, referring to all Gentile nations.

There will be humans born during the 1000 year rule and each one of them will have to make a choice for Christ. It is clear to me from the Scriptures that MOST do not accept Him.

Rev. 20:7-8..........
" And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Bless you Davy!

 

[Major]

I just looked at this thread today. There has been 56 Thousand views!

What a blessing to have that many people exposed to the Word of God!!!

 

[Major]

I just looked at this thread today. There has been 56 Thousand views!

What a blessing to have that many people exposed to the Word of God!!!

60 Thousand Views!!!

Tell your friends to join in and read the thread and maybe we can get to 100 Thousand views!

IF you read the thread and would like to ask a question or make a comment, please do so. It was done as a teaching tool!