amazing i know cancer patients prayed for that was healed . i know of a man who had covid on a respirator hole in his lung ,kidneys trying to shut down heart rate going off the wall,, HE was healed all thanks to Calvary . Jesus paid the price
Revival Meeting of Healing or Not?
- Thread starter bobinfaith
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So, if I may address a question or two, not intending to mean anything other than to gain understanding:
What is the significance of the laying on of hands?
I recognize and am grateful for Major's post, but is there a greater significance than simply following whatever steps are prescribed in Scripture?
Would it be proper to draw parallel to ones bowing ones head and/or kneeling for prayer? There are good reasons to do such as this since being in a posture of humility helps one to be humble at heart, and by shutting out the world around, one can concentrate on the prayer itself (including any answers).
But we also know that these are not a requirement for prayer. One can pray during many activities where kneeling or bowing would be unwise. I find prayers while walking to augment the meditations I have at that time ( whether the meditation is augmenting the prayer, or the prayer is augmenting the meditation is immaterial ). I neither kneel nor bow for these.
How does this laying on of hands relate to the laying on of hands for someone entering a ministry, either as a preacher, or as a deacon, etc?
There are denominations that teach apostolic succession, and hold that their ministers receive the Holy Spirit and apostolic authority at the laying on of hands. How does this relate, if at all?
The "laying on of Hands" in the early church was a means of connecting the message with the messenger.
It is also acceptable that the laying on of hands is symbolic of AGREEMENT!
Jesus certainly laid His hands on many of those He healed; however, He also healed without laying His hands on people. In fact, there were times when He was nowhere in the vicinity of those He healed.
I believe that there are two instances where the Holy Spirit bestows the gift of speaking in tongues with the act of an apostle’s laying on of hands, and in the other case He does so without the laying on of hands, but simply through the apostle’s preaching.
The key to understanding here is the the APOSTLES were the ones given the SIGN GIFTS and they could heal, and even raise the dead.
As for a proper body position for prayer.......I believe that if we do a Bible study we will find that it says that there are 3 positions we can be in to pray.
1. Kneeling.
2. Standing.
3. Bowing.
However.....I for one have never taught that. All of those are acceptable Bible examples what you do the study, but if you have ever been SITTING in an air plane and the pilot says "we are going down"....then I can promise you that SITTING is a good position.
I think most of us can extrapolate that example into saying that ANY POSITION is a good position to be in to talk to God.
And yes.....there are denominations who teach the UN-BIBLICAL, IMHO of Apostolic sucession.
If and when we read Mark 16:14-20, there are only ELEVEN men and then later Paul who were Apostles and it was to those TWELVE that the SIGN GIFTS were given. When John dies, the Gifts ends because the Apostles wrote the Word of God and when it was completed, All the God wanted to say .......He said.
THAT in my opinion is why Bible study for the Christian is so vitally important! We need to know WHY we are what we believe we are.
But that is just ME!
You are welcome to disagree with me. ALL I ASK YOU to do is to post the Bible Scriptures' that promise physical healing associated with the Atonement of Christ.
One teaching which seems to attract many to the Charismatic movement is the idea that physical healing is promised in Christ’s atonement. It is commonly taught by PentecostalCharismatic preachers that if a person is saved and right with God he never has to be sick. Healing is guaranteed, so to speak, for those who exercise faith. This doctrine has been closely connected with the Pentecostal movement throughout the twentieth century. The Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements notes:
“The formative years of development for the classical Pentecostal churches were from 1907 to 1932. As the movement aggressively grew and spread, so the doctrine and practice of divine healing was extended since it was one of the movement’s cardinal doctrines” (p. 370).
This teaching is based upon Matthew 8:17:...........
“Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses,” a quotation from Isaiah 53:4. But the all important thing to see is that Jesus fulfilled this scripture three years before His death. He was bearing their sicknesses all during His earthly ministry, but He never bore any one’s sins until He died upon the tree. Since the Bible declares that He fulfilled the work of bearing sicknesses before Has death, any teaching is proved false which claims
He fulfilled that work in His death.
I probably did not state is like I should have, again.....GOD certainly heals us physically at His choosing and though the prayers of believers.
However, what I am talking about is that MEN such as Benny Hinn and Richard Roberts and Robert Tilton do not have the ability to heal anyone.
The healing we receive from the Atonement is a spiritual healing my friend.
PLEASE....PLEASE my dear friend, do not go into that area of "I KNOW A MAN or SOMEONE told me about a woman".
I know people healed by God just as YOU do. I have personally been given more years from cancer as the Dr. has told me....
You are clear and free.
That was 10 years ago. But what I am saying to you is that a FAITH HEALER did not do that and it was not promised in the Atonement.
I totally understand what you are saying. Now allow me to ask you one simple easy to answer question............
If healing is in the atonement to the same extent as salvation, then one possesses salvation to the extent he enjoys physical health. But since all Christians in the past have died, and mostly from disease, this would prove that all had lost salvation; for all surely lost health.
Take the time to think this through as I have no need or desire to argue this with anyone.
James 5:14-18 ........
"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the LORD: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the LORD shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
GOD HEALS but MAN today does not have that ability.
Look when i say i KNOW I MEAN I HAVE FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE not some fairy tale. sure aint no benny hinn thing . i am not charismatic i dont go around proclaiming things. so if i say i know i know its the real thing . i do not go for FAITH HEALERS i believe in the power of God. you seem to keep adding emphases in man. healing is in the attornment
{I know people healed by God just as YOU do. I have personally been given more years from cancer as the Dr. has told me....
You are clear and free.} this all comes by the way of the cross i will state this once again i believe in divine healing NOT divine healers
Um have no idea what you both are arguing about, seems like you agree on the same thing God provides the healing.
That God heals through some and not others is up to Him, and that God heals through others is also up to Him. Don't shoot the messenger!
None of the people who evangelised and presided over the healing gave anyone but God the glory. If they ever tried to say it was themselves, or take any credit IT DID NOT WORK. God, in His wisdom, chooses to heal who He wills, and the good thing is He is so merciful that he provides it and as much as we can handle. He knows if we are going to be thankful or not. And He also knows that when we are healed we are not going to go round saying it was this man or woman who healed me. No it was God.
That God heals through some and not others is up to Him, and that God heals through others is also up to Him. Don't shoot the messenger!
None of the people who evangelised and presided over the healing gave anyone but God the glory. If they ever tried to say it was themselves, or take any credit IT DID NOT WORK. God, in His wisdom, chooses to heal who He wills, and the good thing is He is so merciful that he provides it and as much as we can handle. He knows if we are going to be thankful or not. And He also knows that when we are healed we are not going to go round saying it was this man or woman who healed me. No it was God.
umm i aint arguing over nothing i have to keep clarifying my post he keeps adding things in . its divine healing not divine healers . we have way to much name it claim it guru ministers. when we proclaim a person will be healed . we can not make that call we pray trust have in what God is going to do. its in his hands
Yes the body will return to the dust because He said 'in that day you will die'. So it is a part of the 'curse' the negative but if there is a negative there must also be a positive, and God's solutions are complete. When God dealt with the curse it covers all its effects, where ever and when ever they are found. But I'm sure that what ever I have to say or quote will have little value to you but only prove to drive us further apart and I don't think it is a critical point. So again, let us agree to disagree and say God bless.
My dear friend. I had NO idea that we were apart to begin with.
I think that you are equating what you believe the Scriptures say with what I believe that they say. I see NO reason whatsoever that that should divide anyone.
If you believe that God has given a MAN, any MAN the ability to heal other people today, then may the Lord bless you my friend. I in no way am trying to take that away from you or anyone else.
All I have said is that there are NO Bible Scriptures that tell us "physical" healing in included in the Atonement of Christ for today.
For example, Kenneth Copeland states,....................
According to Copeland, Jesus didn’t merely die for your sins. He also died for your sickness and poverty.
Word-Faith teacher Andrew Wommack agrees. He claims,
Source...https://www.str.org/w/the-bible-never-promises-immediate-physical-healing-in-the-atonement
No one disputes what this text says. What is under dispute is what the text means. What does it mean by “healed”? Does it refer to physical healing in this life, or does it refer to spiritual healing?
The word itself doesn’t help us since it is used in Scripture to mean both physically healed and spiritually healed. For example, Jesus tells His disciples,
Clearly, this passage is talking about spiritual healing—salvation—not physical healing. Yet, it’s the same Greek word used by Peter.
The key to understanding the 1 Peter passage is to look carefully at the context. Peter begins by stating how Jesus bore our sins in His body on the tree. He connects Jesus bearing our sins with Jesus’ body being nailed to the cross. Next, Peter tells us why this is so significant. He says this was so that we might “die to sin and live to righteousness.”
So far, this says nothing about physical healing.
Please hear me. I believe there is physical healing through the atonement, but this isn’t guaranteed until the final resurrection. We live between two worlds. The kingdom of God is “already but not yet,” which means we don’t get all of the benefits of the atonement in the present world.
So, the question is not whether our bodies receive healing because of the atonement of Christ, but when our bodies receive healing because of the atonement.
I do hope that the way YOU and I understand this will not cause YOU to be angry toward me because I do not understand "Physical Healings" that we see done by MEN today as you do as those men /women are not Apostles and do not have the SIGN Gift of healing.
Will there be physical healing In the future.....YES. When we die or leave in the resurrection and arrive with the Lord Jesus....then shall our physical healing be united with our spiritual healing and we become one with Christ so that as He is so also shale we be.
And that is EXACTLY what I have said !!!!!
You just stated what I have stated from the very beginning as you said and I quote......
"i believe in divine healing NOT divine healers".
Maybe I am misunderstanding the way you are presenting your thoughts, but you seem to be angry about what I have said.
If I am not understanding you, then I apologize for my failure to do so..
If I have said something that has placed you in the position you are in I also apologize for it.
I have NEVER said that GOD did not heal. I have said the exact opposite just as you did.
I have said that MAN does not have the ability to heal but GOD DOES through the prayers of the saints.
But, Since YOU are saying exactly what I have said, would you care to explain why you are combative over this issue???
My dear friend......maybe it is me who is not posting correctly. If so I am sorry!
If you will take the time to go back through this thread I think that you will see that I have not added anything in to the conversation that was not already said.
The fact is that YOU are saying exactly what I have said so I am very puzzled as to why you seem to be in a arugemenitive state as Lanolin suggested.
Again.....we all need to be friends especially when we are saying the very same thing.
Bless you!
By no means did I intend to suggest that any man can heal, all healing comes from God. To suggest that some man has the power to heal would make them an antichrist.
As far as divided I was referring to doctrinal differences. I understand that we all differ even it be slightly, pending on personal position in our walk.
I don't intend to open another can but in the same breath let me say that we will all have to be on the same page when it comes time to meet him in the air, of course I don't claim to have the revelation, at this point, what that page all entails - but enough said....
As far as divided I was referring to doctrinal differences. I understand that we all differ even it be slightly, pending on personal position in our walk.
I don't intend to open another can but in the same breath let me say that we will all have to be on the same page when it comes time to meet him in the air, of course I don't claim to have the revelation, at this point, what that page all entails - but enough said....
had you in your OP stated what you meant we would been in full agreement . but yes in op it was reading as there was no healing in the attornment. if anything i stand with caution when i see a miracle healing service. there is healing through the cross. years ago i ministered in a service where a woman asked if she could stand in the gap. for a elderly lady not doing good. we anointed her with oil the NeXT Sunday she came to me said her friend was better. was it me ? NO i simply followed instructions and prayed. the Bible says to Him who is able to do ....
Ephesians 3:20-21
New King James Version
20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.. the last thing i want to do is discount the power of God that works in us. i dont understand it many times i wish i could quote that scripture and see things happen. yet i still believe in what that scripture says. personally i dont care what denom or church doctrine man believes in. what i care is it backed by scriptureFrom my post #10......on this thread and this thread is NOT MY OP. It was started by bobinfaith and my post #10 was my 2nd.
#10...........
In response to Bobinfaith's question on "Word of Knowledge I said------------
"Now that was for a Word of Knowledge.
As for physical healing.......there are NO/NONE/ZERO Scriptures that say Physical Healing is included in the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now does God heal.........Absolutely YES!
James 5:14- 16 tells us how..............
"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the LORD: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the LORD shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
God heals....always and completely but never because a MAN stands and blows on someone, or hits them in the head and NEVER EVER when a man says..........."AND MAKE SURE YOU SEND YOUR LOVE OFFERIN TO........"!!!!
Now as for your Scripture posting of Ephesians 3:20-21.....
I believe we can all read that Scripture and clearly see that there is NO promise of physical healing BY A MAN in that Scripture which is what I have stated from the beginning and YOU have agreed with.
Again.....I am confused
about your position. As we are saying the very same thing......can you explain why you are be argumenitive?Again, if what I have posted has in some way challenged your faith, I apologize. I only posted what the Bible actually says without additions and again......It is what you have said as well.
I do not know who you were replying to as you did not use the REPLY options, ....but as you me personally, you have just posted exactly what I have posted as well....several times.
Yes.....ALL healings come from God!
As for me, I do not know what doctrinal issues you are referring to. Believing that physical healing is or is not seen in the Atonement of Christ is not as far as I know a "Doctrinal" issue.
It is an issue of "Exegesis" of the Scriptures and how we individually want them to speak to us.
If anyone chooses to believe that God is speaking to them and saying that physical healing is a promise from God to them because Jesus died for them.......then so be it.
All I am saying is that those specific words and teaching is not found in the Scriptures as they are written.
It has been my understanding from several Bible professors that the Cross was a purely judicial matter.
When we are sick and go to a hospital when we are ill, or physically injured and we go to a law court to take care of legal matters. In the great law court of the universe, the Judge offers mercy on the basis of justice satisfied at the Cross.
The matter of bodily illness is not mentioned in the context of the Atonement. There are about 5 references to Isiah 53 in the New Test. but when we actually read Isiah 53 we see that the healing there is SPIRITUAL for SINS AND TRANGRESSIONS.
Furthermore, the Greek word used in the New Test. is not confined in its meaning to physical healing. In Luke 4:18 it refers to the alleviation of heartaches, and in Hebrews 12:13, to the rectifying of one’s conduct.
In Matthew 13:15, it means, “to bring about (one’s) salvation.”
This passages referencing Isiah 53 in New Test. quotes cannot therefore be made to teach the erroneous doctrine that healing of the body is to be found in the atonement as salvation from sin is found at the Cross. The context in which the word is found clearly decides the meaning of the word here, not that of the healing of the body, but that of the salvation of the soul.
But again......anyone can believe as they choose!
yes and you will stay that way .i done explained it im done
I think healing can be both spiritual and physical as they can be connected.
For example. the lepers, the deaf and blind men, the woman with 14 years of blood, all had physical ailments and they got healed. They may also have had spiritual ailments but actually a lot of them already had faith.
When I had healing, I got a both, because I had got a concussion and that was hurting my neck and that was also causing some of my symptoms of bipolar disorder. But also some of the traumas of the past from when I was very young that I don't even remember, got healed. (I no longer need to take fish oil supplements and I can FEEL that I am healed inside)
Another thing that I had healing for was more specific and that was healed in one on one deliverance from fear. I did this over skype with a minister and this was amazing, thank God. It wasn't scary at all, but obviously, in front of people in a congregation isn't the best place for it.
For example. the lepers, the deaf and blind men, the woman with 14 years of blood, all had physical ailments and they got healed. They may also have had spiritual ailments but actually a lot of them already had faith.
When I had healing, I got a both, because I had got a concussion and that was hurting my neck and that was also causing some of my symptoms of bipolar disorder. But also some of the traumas of the past from when I was very young that I don't even remember, got healed. (I no longer need to take fish oil supplements and I can FEEL that I am healed inside)
Another thing that I had healing for was more specific and that was healed in one on one deliverance from fear. I did this over skype with a minister and this was amazing, thank God. It wasn't scary at all, but obviously, in front of people in a congregation isn't the best place for it.
Hello Siloam;
What is the significance of laying hands whether entering ministry or healing? You are asking a great question and I feel you're also answering your own question, brother.
I have been laying hands for both purposes and I find myself comfortable and it feels right. I also find it very significant, but more importantly, very serious regarding laying hands on another before God. It gives me a sense of being with my brother or sister, being in concern and accord with them before the Almighty.
When a new believer or spiritual leader is ordained in church ministry, the church leadership including myself will lay hands before God, as a receiving of the Holy Spirit, blessings, and commissioning responsibility of a new spiritual leader as they go forth to shepherd God's people.
When we lay hands on a sick or dying person, we/and I are praying and asking God for blessing and Great healing. Another part is kneeling. To me, laying hands on a brother or sister or kneeling before God is a sign of submission, humbleness and reverence.
This act of laying hands is not a requirement of the believer, but I believe God loves and sees the act of the believer's heart.
I take both laying hands and kneeling very serious before God. I know He will ultimately have His Way, but many times He has worked amazingly in the ministry He has called me.
Brothers and sisters;
I feel we all have expressed our experiences with healing, whether revival meetings, divine healing and unfortunately, "fake healings." Regardless, these are yours, as believers, what you believe. With that said, we should be beyond any room for argument or disagreement.
For example, Cosia's experience of healing and belief belongs to her. Who am I to tell her she's in error?!?
From reading some of your posts, personally, I agree, and also have a real issue with "fake healers and fake preachers." My problem is, they know how to snake around what they do and say, and why, pray tell, would these individuals go out of their way to fabricate themselves to people who love the Lord?
God bless you all and more to come...