Romans 7

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Noblemen

I would like to share some thoughts on Romans 7. It possibly could be one of the most misunderstood chapters in all of the Bible. Some thoughts to be considered for the ongoing believer and maturing Saint.

Prerequisites to the Romans epistle:
First let me say that from the onset God intended to have a nature to nature, face to face, one to one, birthed relationship with His own offspring.
This means there was to be a birthing relationship because nature comes only through a birthing.
Confirmation of this is "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son" the last line of Hebrews 1:5 declares and describes a nature to nature relationship. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is "born" of the Spirit is spirit", John 3:6. Key word is "born" which means that spirit is not created but comes through a birthing.

When the eternal plan of God is finished and all is said and done the end result will be "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son" which Is a nature to nature relationship that God intended to have from the onset and will have in the final end. This also means that God intended that the soul/mind be totally compatible with the inborn nature. It is very important that the believer keep the nature to nature relationship in mind when reading in studying the Roman epistles.

Now I'm going to lay a little groundwork to hopefully get you to see a few these things and it can revolutionize your understanding of this epistle.

Nature Not Changeable:
Romans 7:14–23 Describes an the individual with a mind that wants to obey the law of God but has a sin nature that cannot be changed to accommodate this kind of living.
What is described there is a desire to serve the law of God but the sin nature struggles to prevent it from happening. In essence this means the mind cannot get the sin nature to comply or cooperate with the law of God. The mind that "retains God in their knowledge",Romans 1:28, And the sin nature are totally irreconcilable and have been since Adam eight of the forbidden fruit in Eden. Romans 7:14–23 describes incompatibility in the worst case scenario. This is an attempt by the mind to subject the sin nature to the law of God and it generates the scenario as described. The facts stated in these verses show that the mind can be subjected to the law of God but the sin nature totally rebels against the mind during the process of attempting to put the sin nature under the law. Since nature cannot be changed the only way rest or peace can be obtained between these two is for the mind to change or to get a new nature with which the mind that "retains God in its knowledge" can find compatibility.
 
Noblemen said:
I would like to share some thoughts on Romans 7. It possibly could be one of the most misunderstood chapters in all of the Bible. Some thoughts to be considered for the ongoing believer and maturing Saint.

Prerequisites to the Romans epistle:
First let me say that from the onset God intended to have a nature to nature, face to face, one to one, birthed relationship with His own offspring.
This means there was to be a birthing relationship because nature comes only through a birthing.
Confirmation of this is "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son" the last line of Hebrews 1:5 declares and describes a nature to nature relationship. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is "born" of the Spirit is spirit", John 3:6. Key word is "born" which means that spirit is not created but comes through a birthing.

When the eternal plan of God is finished and all is said and done the end result will be "I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son" which Is a nature to nature relationship that God intended to have from the onset and will have in the final end. This also means that God intended that the soul/mind be totally compatible with the inborn nature. It is very important that the believer keep the nature to nature relationship in mind when reading in studying the Roman epistles.

Now I'm going to lay a little groundwork to hopefully get you to see a few these things and it can revolutionize your understanding of this epistle.

Nature Not Changeable:
Romans 7:14–23 Describes an the individual with a mind that wants to obey the law of God but has a sin nature that cannot be changed to accommodate this kind of living.
What is described there is a desire to serve the law of God but the sin nature struggles to prevent it from happening. In essence this means the mind cannot get the sin nature to comply or cooperate with the law of God. The mind that "retains God in their knowledge",Romans 1:28, And the sin nature are totally irreconcilable and have been since Adam eight of the forbidden fruit in Eden. Romans 7:14–23 describes incompatibility in the worst case scenario. This is an attempt by the mind to subject the sin nature to the law of God and it generates the scenario as described. The facts stated in these verses show that the mind can be subjected to the law of God but the sin nature totally rebels against the mind during the process of attempting to put the sin nature under the law. Since nature cannot be changed the only way rest or peace can be obtained between these two is for the mind to change or to get a new nature with which the mind that "retains God in its knowledge" can find compatibility.
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This is my answer for this -
Galatians 5:16 and Romans 12:2 and 2 Corinthians 10:4-5

Romans 12:2 ....
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God

(( Get His word in you each and every day and speak His word each and every day ))

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

(( Begin to practice the words you speak and thoughts you think for our thoughts and words to control how we act or react and believe. Our own words do more to influence our thinking then most of everything else. ))

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh

(( The more you do the first two the more you will begin to walk in the Spirit and you will be amazed to say the least. ))

All done through the Grace of God
who maketh all grace abound to me. ( 2 Corinthians 9:8 )
Blessings and love in Christ
Jim
 
Amen Jim,the only mind the "Christ in you" has is the mind of the believer. It has to be renewed to be compatible with the new "Christ in you" nature. The law was given to Israel to basically to suppress the sin-nature that they didnt even know they had. The mind had to control the sin-nature to keep from being reprobate and God used the law to do that, the law is Good and Holy.
If we dont follow Paul into his Epistles the mind will still try to control the new "Christ in you" nature. Not untill Pauls revelation did anyone know that there was a sin-nature. I'll get more into that, I'm going to do a few parts on Romans 7.
 
'Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that Christ
being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that he died,
he died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth,
He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves
to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members
as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God,
as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members
as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law,
but under grace.'
(Rom 6:6-14)

The Christian life is one of reckoning: it is a life of faith; faith in God's promises. The old nature will be with us until we die: it is under a death sentence; and has no power over us, for we are under new management. This does not mean that it won't try to get the upper hand, and this is where the conflict within the child of God comes in: causing consternation and anxiety, until it is seen for what it is; the death throws of the old nature. We should praise God for the conflict, for it is the one evidence of salvation within the believer that cannot be replicated by the enemy of our souls. Joy can be replicated, as can many of what is presumed to be the gifts of the Spirit, but the conflict between the old and new nature cannot be replicated. Romans seven describes that conflict, and gives the solution to it, it is, 'I thank God through Christ Jesus our Lord.' (v. 25)

* Thank God for the conflict, and for the victory which is ours, not because of anything we 'have', 'can', or 'will' do, but because of what Christ has done. We are 'accepted in the Beloved', we are, 'complete in Him', by the operation of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Complete said:
'Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that Christ
being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that he died,
he died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth,
He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves
to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members
as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God,
as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members
as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law,
but under grace.'
(Rom 6:6-14)

The Christian life is one of reckoning: it is a life of faith; faith in God's promises. The old nature will be with us until we die: it is under a death sentence; and has no power over us, for we are under new management. This does not mean that it won't try to get the upper hand, and this is where the conflict within the child of God comes in: causing consternation and anxiety, until it is seen for what it is; the death throws of the old nature. We should praise God for the conflict, for it is the one evidence of salvation within the believer that cannot be replicated by the enemy of our souls. Joy can be replicated, as can many of what is presumed to be the gifts of the Spirit, but the conflict between the old and new nature cannot be replicated. Romans seven describes that conflict, and gives the solution to it, it is, 'I thank God through Christ Jesus our Lord.' (v. 25)

* Thank God for the conflict, and for the victory which is ours, not because of anything we 'have', 'can', or 'will' do, but because of what Christ has done. We are 'accepted in the Beloved', we are, 'complete in Him', by the operation of God, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Yes I agree so true but I see the sin nature Crucified in Christ. It is a mind thing now or Soulish. The mind is like a hard drive in a computer it remembers the old nature well And will act out as such. The importance of mind renewal is imperative to the believer without it it's a rough road. The soul (my mind) can act just like the old man or sin nature And I think that's what confuses a lot of Christians And the lack of preaching the full and final gospel revealed to the apostle Paul but the sin nature was absolutely positively crucified at the cross
 
Hello Noblemen,
I believe it is very important to use the words that the Holy Spirit uses, and not to superimpose our own understanding upon the text, by using other words which could have other shades of meaning to those used: and I believe in seeking to understand what is being said, it is possible to do so without being aware of it. For example, you use the word 'soul' and place in brackets the words 'my mind', therefore showing that you identify the soul with the mind. Yet, surely the soul is representative of no mere part, but of our whole being, energized by life. 'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.'

In Ephesians 4:23,24, we are told to be renewed in the spirit of our mind, as you say, to 'put off' concerning our 'conversation' (in regard to manner of life) the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and to 'put on' the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. That does not deny the existence of the old man, it is, after all, made up of so many pounds in weight: all that is asked is that we reckon ourselves dead as regards it's calls and claims, by 'reckoning' it as dead. Our identification with Christ in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension , is a reckoning of faith, on God's part as well as ours: and although sure, is not visible, except through the eyes of faith.

Romans 8:13, talks about mortifying the deeds of the body, which is possible only by the reckoning of faith. By reckoning as dead, the deeds of the body.

'And if Christ be in you,
the body is dead because of sin;
but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him
that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
He that raised up Christ from the dead
shall also quicken your mortal bodies
by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.'
(Rom 8:10,11)

Praise God!

Forgive me, I will not inject any more of my 'thoughts', to interfere with your thread. I look forward to hearing more of what you have to say concerning Romans 7.

In Christ Jesus
Chris




 
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