Saints and the World

Christians still sin, so what’s the difference between them and the world when it comes to sinning? When believers sin it is not intentional, “willful,” (Heb 10:26) nor “presumptuous” (Num 15:25). Paul said he now never willfully sins. He reveals that it is the “old man” or sin nature within that sins, but not him in his “new nature” (Rom 7:15, 17, 20). Thus, the sins of believers are committed in “ignorance,” unaware that they were going to sin. I know of no Christians that admit they knew they were about to commit a sin, and did it anyway.

Paul said it is like one who is “captive” against his nature, which doesn’t want to sin (vs 23). “For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I do.” This doesn’t mean he never does good, nor that all he does is sin; he is merely demonstrating the normal life of a believer. This could be paraphrased as, “the good I want to do I do not always do; but the evil I do not want to do, I sometimes do. Paul says he does not want to do evil.”

How can Christians say they do not sin with the “new man,” or new nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10)? 1John 1:9 writes, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (perpetrate - “to execute, commonly in a bad sense” - The American Heritage® Dictionary); for His “seed” (“new man”) remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God:”

John Gill (1697-1771): “Doth not commit sin; does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it.

“For His seed remains in him; not the word of God, or the Gospel, though that is a seed which is sown by the ministers of it, and blessed by God, and by which He regenerates His people; and which having a place in their hearts, becomes the engrafted word, and there abides, nor can it be rooted out; where it powerfully teaches to avoid sin, is an antidote against it, and a preservative from it: nor the Holy Spirit of God, though He is the Author of the new birth, and the principle of all grace; and where He once is, He always abides; and through the power of His grace believers prevail against sin, and mortify the deeds of the body, and live (Rom 8:13): but rather it is the grace of the Spirit, the internal principle of grace in the soul, the new nature, or new man formed in the soul, is meant His “seed.”

Paul also wrote, “You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9). The “flesh” is in us, but we are not in it! To be in the flesh in this sense means to be after the old man, desiring it. In the NT the word “flesh” nearly always means the “old man” or sin nature. In the OT, flesh is always in reference to the physical flesh of the body.

Though we still sin, God never sees the Christian as a sinner, which answers to why there is no Scripture reference relating the believer as a “sinner.” “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear” (1Pe 4:18)?
 
Though we still sin, God never sees the Christian as a sinner, which answers to why there is no Scripture reference relating the believer as a “sinner.” “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear” (1Pe 4:18)?

Hello netchaplain;

I read Saints and the World and we've discussed this topic in your previous threads.

A Christian confessing, "I am a sinner" is expressed in several Scriptures. But before I share more, brother, do you strongly disbelieve this?

Elaborate more from your thread?

God bless you, Bob.
 
Hello netchaplain;

I read Saints and the World and we've discussed this topic in your previous threads.

A Christian confessing, "I am a sinner" is expressed in several Scriptures. But before I share more, brother, do you strongly disbelieve this?

Elaborate more from your thread?

God bless you, Bob.
Hi Brother! I would need some passages to determine your inquiry. Thanks.
 
Though we still sin, God never sees the Christian as a sinner, which answers to why there is no Scripture reference relating the believer as a “sinner.” “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear” (1Pe 4:18)?

Hello netchaplain;

In Psalm 51:3-7, 3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. 4 Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment. 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. 6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart. 7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. - ESV

Luke 18:13, 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ - RSV

James 5:16, 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect. - HCSB

Before Jesus went to the cross God proclaimed David was a man after my own heart. "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after my own heart, who will carry out all my will" reference Acts 13:22 Yet David's sin occurred with Bathsheba years later.

In Luke 18:13 even after we were saved, the tax collector confessed that he was a sinner who needed God's mercy and forgiveness.

In James 5:16 James teaches even after we're saved we still need to confess our sins so that we may be healed.

Nowhere in Scripture does God say "He never sees the Christian as sinners." There are several Scriptures where God does see us as sinners.

I feel what you're sharing is, God sees us as redeemed and sanctified through Christ. God sees us as righteous but we still fall short as sinners.


May I ask, it seems to me you strongly disagree or disbelieve this teaching?

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
Hello netchaplain;

In Psalm 51:3-7, 3 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
The goal with God is to "take away sin," which was "not possible" in the OT, prior to the Lord Jesus' expiation; but God still forgave His people in view of the sin sacrifices (a Christ type), though the sin was still there for lack of the Lord Jesus' sacrifice, which animal sacrifices cannot remove (Heb 10:4).
James 5:16, 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed.
This can take either side of its meaning, depending upon the usage. "Fault" is what KJV uses, in the sense of doing someone wrong.

Albert Barnes: "Confess your faults one to another" - "This seems primarily to refer to those who were sick, since it is added, “that ye may be healed.” The fair interpretation is, that it might be supposed that such confession would contribute to a restoration to health. The case supposed all along here (see James 5:15) is, that the sickness referred to had been brought upon the patient for his sins, apparently as a punishment for some particular transgressions. Compare the notes at 1 Corinthians 11:30. In such a case, it is said that if those who were sick would make confession of their sins, it would, in connection with prayer, be an important means of restoration to health.

The duty inculcated, and which is equally binding on all now, is, that if we are sick, and are conscious that we have injured any persons, to make confession to them. This indeed is a duty at all times, but in health it is often neglected, and there is a special propriety that such confession should be made when we are sick. The particular reason for doing it which is here specified is, that it would contribute to a restoration to health - “that ye may be healed.” In the case specified, this might be supposed to contribute to a restoration to health."

NKJV uses "trespasses," which I believe in this case the sense is: To commit an injury to the person, property, or rights of another, with actual or implied force or violence, especially to enter onto another's land wrongfully. -The American Heritage® Dictionary
Before Jesus went to the cross God proclaimed David was a man after my own heart. "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after my own heart, who will carry out all my will" reference Acts 13:22 Yet David's sin occurred with Bathsheba years later.
I don't think it's fair to use anyone prior to the giving of the Holy Spirit; big disadvantage without Him!
In Luke 18:13 even after we were saved, the tax collector confessed that he was a sinner who needed God's mercy and forgiveness.
This being a parable we would have to assume the publican was receiving salvation.
Nowhere in Scripture does God say "He never sees the Christian as sinners."
That's what I meant by saying Scripture never refers to a believer as a sinner.
There are several Scriptures where God does see us as sinners.
I don't know any passages in the NT that God sees us as sinners after being saved. The closest passage is 1Ti 1:15. Paul said "I am chief" of sinners. the word "am" here in the Greek is G1510, "I was." https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1510/kjv/tr/0-1/

I feel what you're sharing is, God sees us as redeemed and sanctified through Christ. God sees us as righteous but we still fall short as sinners.
To me, a sinner isn't just one who sins, but one who sins on purpose or intentionally, i.e. "willfully" (Heb 10:26).

May I ask, it seems to me you strongly disagree or disbelieve this teaching?
Not sure what you mean here Brother. Let me know.
 
Hello, netchaplain;

I appreciate you responding. What I shared does remain my firm belief.

I feel we can agree to continue our fellowship, personal study of God's Word and discuss further Biblical topics at another time.

God bless you, Bob and your family.

Happy Thanksgiving!


Bob
 
I appreciate you responding. What I shared does remain my firm belief.

I feel we can agree to continue our fellowship, personal study of God's Word and discuss further Biblical topics at another time.
I do not think any two Christians believe the same on every subject, and each have their own faith concerning certain issues, which we believe is the Word; and God will always show to us what we believe is the Word. That doesn't mean we will always have the same understanding on certain subjects because we are always led into deeper truths until we leave here.

There's nothing that can take away the fellowship of two or more believers anyway.

Love you Brother. God's love to the Family, and God be blessed!
 
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