Saved Once: It’s Saved Or Wasn’t Saved! –netchaplain

[Major]

May I add here that concerning the issue of eternal security,(OSAS) there are only 2 valid scriptural points of view.

1). A genuine Christian can NEVER lose his salvation ONCE he is saved.

2). A genuine Christian MAY lose his salvation, and when he does, he can get it back again and again.

Those are the only possible views on the subject. The bible does not allow for any other view. The belief that someone can lose his salvation, come back to Christ, lose it again, then come back again; is categorically unscriptural and doctrinally false. I say that so anyone can consider WHAT it
is Biblically that they are considering.

Eternal security is the belief that a genuine Christian can never be lost. They were predestined to be saved, and hence how could they eventually be lost if God predestined them to salvation? There are different versions of this. Some hold that if someone falls away, it is testament to the fact that they were never saved. Others say that if a genuine Christian falls away, it is only temporary and he/she will eventually come back. Still others say that it does not matter if they backslide, God will take them to heaven anyway, kicking and screaming and the works.

Free will on the other hand holds that believers are responsible for the decisions they make and may choose to stop being saved.

Allow me to say that this is NOT a new argument. OSAS has been waged for hundred's of years.
Not one single person has to agree with me but I felt that some would benifit from some thoughts.

One of the popular ideas out there today is the one that says..................

We must maintain our salvation by obeying and doing good things.
What is the TRUTH??? What does the Bible actuallt say about this????
Nowhere in the Bible are we taught that it is our job to keep ourselves saved. We are to keep ourselves pure, in God’s love, from idols etc. But it is God who keeps us by His grace. We are kept by his power (1 Pet. 1:5), He keeps us from the evil one (2Thess. 3:3), He keeps us from falling (Jude 24). It is by the grace of God that we stand and remain in the faith. It is never our job to keep ourselves saved by living right. Living right and confessing of sins are necessary to experience unbroken communion with God. Doing good is necessary to receive a full reward in heaven,but never to maintain our salvation.

Now if we are going to argue about Bible doctrine, we best know what the Bible says then. PLEASE just stop and think for just a moment about this.

The hypothetical question may be asked, “Suppose a genuine believer sins just before he dies, where will he go?” Some will say hell. They say that sin cannot enter heaven. In that case which of us will ever go there? More importantly why then did Jesus die? Didn’t he pay the price of sin in full? Tetelestai (it is finished) was a commercial word meaning the debt is paid in full. He died for every sin ever committed and even those yet to be committed.
Sin has lost its sting and cannot deter anyone from entering heaven, only unbelief can (John 3:18).

Some people teach that every time we sin we temporarily backslide (lose our salvation) until we repent, when we are re-saved. Now stop and THINK about that for just amoment. IF that is what we believe, then Salvation actually becomes a matter of beating the clock rather than depending on God’s grace. Such a concept is totally foreign to the New Testament. Actually the New Testament does not even use the word backslide.

I just wanted those who believe that they can lose their salvation and get saved over and over again to THINK about the ramifications of what they are saying.

Bless you all.

 

[KingJ]

Thanks Major, your post does help.

The best example I can think of to explain my understanding of this subject is a marriage. We love our wife, she loves us. We do works out of love, not necessity to stay married. I can fight with her, swear at her, blow all our savings on alcohol, lust after other woman in my mind, steal from her mother and yet the marriage will still be intact. But should I commit adultery consistently....she will give me over to the new desires I have forced upon myself for another woman. She is not leaving me, I am leaving her.

But then I suppose God cannot be compared to my wife as He will never file for a divorce, Him giving us over to the desires of our flesh could merely be a contingency plan to enable us to come back to Him to once more 'be useful' for His will. I also suppose that since He won't put us through anything we can't handle, He will ''take us'' if He foresees us stumbling terribly with NO hope of ''being useful'' to Him?

The other argument I see is that because we are all 'close' to and abiding 'in' Christ, we feel so confident in our salvation that we are inclined to lean towards OSAS. If we were giving into evil and now in a sesspool of immorality, would we be confident in our salvation? But then would we ever be able to truly get so far removed from God if we were truly saved.... When I council marriage partners I always explain how the advantage of marrying a Christian is that they always have hope for changing. As God has touched the inner most depth of their heart and can prick it when they are going off course. The unsaved continue falling with no hope of changing.

As Kevin correctly says, there are strong arguments for both sides. I suppose the answer lies in that. God wants us to be 100% confident in our salvation and 100% nervous when in unrepentant sin. Whether our fate is death and off to heaven with little to no rewards or death and off to hell, either way, staying in unrepentant sin can only have bad consequences.

I was thinking how I can't say I am 50/50 or 60/40 on this subject, I have to either believe it or not. So, to clarify my stance, if I were in an extremity of evil I would be extremely nervous of missing the rapture.

 

[Major]

King J.....I do understand your stand.

Hebrews 10:26-29 says very much the same thing as 4:4-6. Heb 10:26 states that if we sin willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there is no forgiveness. But is this talking about any sin in general or a very specific one? Some background information is in order. This epistle was written to encourage believers who were under severe persecution from the Jews and who were being tempted to draw back to Judaism and side with the very enemies of Christ. This was apostasy. I believe this was the specific sin referred to in Heb 10:26, the sin for which there was no repentance. I believe that although it is difficult for us in the 21st century to see that, it was very obvious to Paul's direct audience. It is when this sin is committed that a believer forfeits his salvation. I believe this is the only way one can cease from being saved.

 

[netchaplain]

I believe you will never be saved, if your name isn't in Book of Life. "And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

I also believe this Book had to be written before the beginning of time and therefore, no name can be added or ever delieted from it. Otherwise a more accurate title would be the "book of maybe life". "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world . . . ."

"It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [His] good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). While were about the Father's buisness, it also helps to realize, we do not hold on to Him, He holds on to us. "My Father, which gave [them] Me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of My Father's hand" (Jhn 10:29).

We work, not in our stength, but His. "Be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might" (Eph 6:10).
"Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the LORD" (Zec 4:6).

Remember, the only way we can possibly obey God's truths, is through His Spirit. "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit . . . ." (1 Pet 1:22; Note: Only the KJ translations retain the phrase "through the Spirit" in this important verse.)

The idea is, God does His work, by us. Not, we do God's work, by Him!

 

[calvin]

I also believe this Book had to be written before the beginning of time and therefore, no name can be added or ever delieted from it. Otherwise a more accurate title would be the "book of maybe life". "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world . . . ."

ref Eph 1:3,4,5,6
Hi Netchaplain, there is another understanding of the passage you used. But first, please consider Gen 1:3
Before the foundation of the world God said....and it happened. If God had also said let there be a person named ##### who will go to eternal damnation, that would happen too. Poor ##### didn't stand a chance because of being predestined to the eternal BBQ.
However, another understanding would be that God determined that there would be a people with free will. He also determined that those who would exercise that free will to follow Christ would be counted as being holy and without blame before Him in love. Those who exercised their free will to decline God's Grace, well...............John 5:39,40. Those not willing to go to Jesus, are they not exercising free will?
Just something for the reader to consider.
blessings,
calvin

 

[netchaplain]

Sup Cal? It helps me to understand, that everyone is predestened, up or down (most) and the point of attendance in thought is that regardless the reason for either, God foreknew, in His omniscience, both from eternity past, because He never has to learn anything, He already knows everything. In this sense, everything which occurrs in this life is due the fact that God has allowed them to transpire and everything He does in them, He pre-planned and has alredy mades allowences for them all.

For example, we prayed for something yesterday and He has, from the foundation of the world and before that, from eternity past, knew that we would pray at that time for whatever and has already had the answer set up.

To me, this is the best example of God's total contol over everyone and everything in this life and this comforts me.

 

[mistmann]

There was no misunderstanding on my part Calvin. Absolutly none. You read post #13 so I am sure you know exactly what the meaning of the verse was.
Now if you want some circular reasoning take notice of Misty comment of.............

"Now the only way to disagree with what I have said, (which is, that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven we must actually DO the will of the Father), is to declare that we can enter Heaven WITHOUT actually DOING the will of the Father. (ie. we don't actually have to DO anything to enter the Kingdom, which is what being saved is all about)."

What????.....................
"we don't actually have to DO anything to enter the Kingdom, which is what being saved is all about)."

Isn't that exactly what I said in the beginning???????

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Acts 16:30
"They brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" .

Of course, you do not deserve salvation. There is nothing you can do that will make you worthy of it. You cannot be saved by keeping the Ten Commandments, for the Scripture clearly shows that you have not kept them.

Romans 3:20 says:
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."​

Many, many Scriptures repeat again and again that there is no salvation through human goodness.

Major I DID say that it was the argument of those who DISAGREE with what I have said. I was merely pointing out that those who stand by that argument teach in direct contradiction to the very words of Jesus Himself when HE declared that not all who CALL Him Lord, but ONLY those who DO the will of the Father shall enter the Kingdom.

I was giving you the opportunity to seriously rethink what you are saying BECAUSE it is in clear contradiction to the very words of Jesus Himself. If you still insist in standing by that argument, as you just have, despite it being so obviously contradictory to the words of Jesus that is entirely your choice to make. However, I must admit that the fact that it does not seem to concern you, might be of concern to others.

But that is for others to decide for themselves.

 

[mistmann]

Something everybody here should seriously meditate on and contemplate the significance of. A full THIRD of all of the angels that were ALREADY in Heaven even one as highly positioned as Satan was, LOST their position in Heaven. If even the mighty angels of Heaven and in the very presence of the Lord Himself, are capable of losing their salvation why would you think that it is impossible to lose yours? Are you more powerful and mighty than the angels that somehow the Lord CANNOT do to you what He did to them?

We enter Heaven ONLY by the Grace of the Lord. We STAY in Heaven ONLY by the Grace of the Lord. You are saved because it PLEASES the Lord to save you not because He MUST save you. The wise man knows that his ONLY guarantee of salvation is his faith and trust in the word and promises of the Lord to those who do that which pleases Him.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

YES it is POSSIBLE to loose our salvation, ALL things are possible with the Lord. If you want to guarantee your salvation put your faith and trust in the words and promises of the Lord and hearken to the wisdom of Solomon:-

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Regards Misty

 

[HisManySongs]

This is one of those controversial subjects I referred to. I believe this version has run its course and it's time to put it to rest.

Thanks to all who participated.

Please give the subject a rest before reviving it.