The conept of eternity past can be desribed a few ways but to me it's understandable when concidering God had no beginning.
Saved Since Eternity Past: Eph 1:4! -netchaplain
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The conept of eternity past can be desribed a few ways but to me it's understandable when concidering God had no beginning.
I still don't see how "eternity past" makes sense as an idea. I can conceptualize time past, but not eternity past. Eternity can never be in the past, by the very definition of the word 'eternity'.
Well said! I concur.
Thanks, and you too. Predestination doesn't get talked about a whole lot so it's exciting and a bit nerve wrecking =)
Light........."Eternity Past" is NOT AN IDEA. It is in fact a REALITY. The problem you are having I think is in the word ETERNITY. Eternity is TIME whether it is past or future. Allow me to say to you
that the Bible actually opens with the statement "In the beginning God..." without making any reference to date and time. In both Hebrew and Greek, the idea of "the beginning" means the "indefinite distant past." This is not to suggest that man's early history fades into obscure mists of mythology as we go backwards in time, but that God has not revealed all that we would like to know about the exact "time" of the creation of all things.
I am one who actually believes that the earth and creation are very, very old. However, that does not mean that biological evolution is involved at all. IMHO.
Like Genesis, the Gospel of John opens with the words, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It is declared in Scripture that God always was, always will be, and is unchanging---"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8) The "beginning" referred to in John's gospel is actually an earlier point in time than the "beginning" of Genesis One. John says "the Word was with God" prior to the creation of the universe, and in fact all things were brought into being through the Word.
The Bible is an exceptionally accurate document, and there is no ancient document for which we have better manuscript authority (or evidence), or into which more man-years of intense scholarship have been invested in recovering the original text. The Old Testament genealogies have nogaps in them and are actually quite complete so that one can estimate the time of Adam, the first man, as occurring only a few thousand years before Christ. Now there is the problem because science says that the creation is BILLIONS of years old not THOUSANDS. So what has that done for us??????
The internal structure of the Bible makes it difficult to place the creation of Adam more that a few thousands of years in the past. Sadly, for many secular scientists this fact is considered sufficient reason for them to ignore the Bible altogether as a relevant source of reliable information on any subject. However, a Biblical world-view must in the long run be consistent with scientific data---properly interpreted. The God of the Bible is the God of truth and in the end truth from all possible sources must harmonize.
It may be, however, that the actual age of the universe is indeterminate. I believe this to be the case because God has apparently hidden from us the key evidence we need to unravel the past back to the time of creation. Twice the Bible makes important statements (consistent with each other) that suggest the fundamental nature of time, and many aspects of the actual course of history, presently escape our understanding to a large degree. Solomon says,
"I have seen the business that God has given to the sons of men to be busy with. He has made everything beautiful in its time; also he has put eternity into man's mind, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." (Ecclesiastes 3:10-11)
Absolutely correct my friend!
My dear friend.......it should, and I hope it will encourage you and lift you UP because what it actually says to you and me is that GOD IS IN CONTROLE of all things all the time!!!
Major,
Eternity is an idea, but that's not to say the idea does not have its counterpart in reality.
Actually, I think you are having a bit of trouble with the word "eternity". Past and future do not apply to eternity, but rather to time. Eternity transcends any notions of passing time. Now, the phrase "time past" makes sense because it refers to a passage of time that has already expired. Eternity, by its very definition, can never expire, and so we can never sensibly suggest that eternity has already passed ("eternity past").
I agree that an old earth need not imply evolution. I'm glad though that you accept the vast body of scientific evidence for a very old earth.
Indeed! And this gets at the very notion of eternity as that which transcends the passage of time!
Wait, didn't you just said you believe in an old earth? From this last comment, it seems you are saying the earth is only thousands of years old??
Indeed, all truth must harmonize. As for the creation accounts, I'm still wondering why the few of you here who I've been chatting with insist that they are literal.
Eternity is an idea, but that's not to say the idea does not have its counterpart in reality.
Actually, I think you are having a bit of trouble with the word "eternity". Past and future do not apply to eternity, but rather to time. Eternity transcends any notions of passing time. Now, the phrase "time past" makes sense because it refers to a passage of time that has already expired. Eternity, by its very definition, can never expire, and so we can never sensibly suggest that eternity has already passed ("eternity past").
I agree that an old earth need not imply evolution. I'm glad though that you accept the vast body of scientific evidence for a very old earth.
Indeed! And this gets at the very notion of eternity as that which transcends the passage of time!
Wait, didn't you just said you believe in an old earth? From this last comment, it seems you are saying the earth is only thousands of years old??
Indeed, all truth must harmonize. As for the creation accounts, I'm still wondering why the few of you here who I've been chatting with insist that they are literal.
LOT questioon was...........
Wait, didn't you just said you believe in an old earth? From this last comment, it seems you are saying the earth is only thousands of years old??
NO........I said ,
The Old Testament genealogies have nogaps in them and are actually quite complete so that one can estimate the time of Adam, the first man, as occurring only a few thousand years before Christ
That is what the BIBLE says. I say IMHO that it does not matter how old creation is and personally I believe it is very, very old simply because God has no age and is not a servant to time as we are.
and NO I understand the word ETERNITY very well.
Wait, didn't you just said you believe in an old earth? From this last comment, it seems you are saying the earth is only thousands of years old??
NO........I said ,
The Old Testament genealogies have nogaps in them and are actually quite complete so that one can estimate the time of Adam, the first man, as occurring only a few thousand years before Christ
That is what the BIBLE says. I say IMHO that it does not matter how old creation is and personally I believe it is very, very old simply because God has no age and is not a servant to time as we are.
and NO I understand the word ETERNITY very well.
OK, thanks for the clarification. I'd like some feedback to what I noted about eternity and time, namely that eternity, unlike time, can never said to be in the "past".
Just as future means after now, past means before now and even before time. Only the present for now exists in time itself for the past no longer exists and the future never comes and also is non-existant. Time wasn't existant until creation because there must be movement of matter for time to exist.
When we speak of eternity we are completely devoid of time. "Eternity past" is considered only in relation to time, which will consist from the begining of this present creation, to the end of it. Then time will never exist again and we'll see that eternity, like God, has always been and will always be.
Eternity past is an interesting phrase, which probably cannot be adequtely addressed because it's a non-vital concept concerning salvation.
When we speak of eternity we are completely devoid of time. "Eternity past" is considered only in relation to time, which will consist from the begining of this present creation, to the end of it. Then time will never exist again and we'll see that eternity, like God, has always been and will always be.
Eternity past is an interesting phrase, which probably cannot be adequtely addressed because it's a non-vital concept concerning salvation.
Thank you, net. I appreciate your thoughts. I will hold off on adopting the term "eternity past" for reasons already noted, but I'm glad to see that we are both basically saying the same thing.
Light..........please see net's answer on comment #30. It is a good one and I agree with it.