Agree. However and I think that you will agree in that there musr be a judgment made before you can go to a brother in sin and IN LOVE restore them.
That is what I am saying.
Saved?
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That is what I am saying.
Could that be that YOU KNOW what you used to be BC.
This is where I have the PROBLEM. Testing everything, in my opinion does not refer to OTHER Christians. I am very hard on myself. I know when I do WRONG... and I have no problem apologizing to others... I also do not have a difficult time repenting to FATHER when I have done wrong. Those two are separate things but similar in my opinion.
I do NOT need... nor would I accept someone "thinking" they have a right to judge/correct my struggles in my walk as potential loss of salvation. That is something I simply cannot digest or accept. I am speaking with the lens of SEVERE trust ISSUES... so I'm sure this has something to do with my absolutely REPULSED "feeling/attitude".
Now then... if someone is serving the church as a LEADER. I do absolutely believe they NEED to be living a life in accordance to biblical teachings. This sounds hypocritical and I don't know how to explain it differently. As a Christian... I hold myself to the same high standards... but I do NOT meddle with others. It's one thing to seek COUNSELLING or COUNSEL with regards to issues within the body... but quite another to have someone suggest that someone is NOT saved.
Anyways... my problem... my issue and I will deal with it.
Similar to me, + more.
He who The Son sets free, is free indeed.
Can someone answer these questions???
Ok... so... I can't stop thinking about this thread... HA.... That probably means the Lord is trying to tell me something. I do not want to be in error in my thinking/beliefs.
So here goes.... Whose fault is the FALL of true Christianity?? What the heck happened?
How on earth is it even possible that a CHRISTIAN denomination would EMBRACE and even ACCEPT the sin of same sex marriages?
Here in Canada... it seems like the United Church has accepted same sex marriages for decades.. even ordaining same sex ministers. I don't have a clue which other organized Christian denominations have recently followed suit... but I'm sure it's more than one.
How is it possible that so many women are now "pastors"? Different topic but still an outright DISOBEDIENCE to the Word of God.
I just heard a program on my Christian radio... a new term that I have not heard.... Deconstructing Christianity/Progressive Christianity? WHO did this???
If one BELIEVES that the Bible is GOD BREATHED... WHY would someone think that the rules will change just because society does?
Is that not a NO BRAINER that society ( especially in the end times is going to revolt?? ).
and those questions don't even begin to cover the "charlatans" who have introduced the world to ... GOD wants you to be rich and HE does not desire than anyone should be sick.
Ok... so... I guess this is where I am at. Gotta love me... I'm the baby sister around here... HA.
It's truly NO WONDER why I don't want to go to church...
Ok... so... I can't stop thinking about this thread... HA.... That probably means the Lord is trying to tell me something. I do not want to be in error in my thinking/beliefs.
So here goes.... Whose fault is the FALL of true Christianity?? What the heck happened?
How on earth is it even possible that a CHRISTIAN denomination would EMBRACE and even ACCEPT the sin of same sex marriages?
Here in Canada... it seems like the United Church has accepted same sex marriages for decades.. even ordaining same sex ministers. I don't have a clue which other organized Christian denominations have recently followed suit... but I'm sure it's more than one.
How is it possible that so many women are now "pastors"? Different topic but still an outright DISOBEDIENCE to the Word of God.
I just heard a program on my Christian radio... a new term that I have not heard.... Deconstructing Christianity/Progressive Christianity? WHO did this???
If one BELIEVES that the Bible is GOD BREATHED... WHY would someone think that the rules will change just because society does?
Is that not a NO BRAINER that society ( especially in the end times is going to revolt?? ).
and those questions don't even begin to cover the "charlatans" who have introduced the world to ... GOD wants you to be rich and HE does not desire than anyone should be sick.
Ok... so... I guess this is where I am at. Gotta love me... I'm the baby sister around here... HA.
It's truly NO WONDER why I don't want to go to church...
Good morning, In Awe of Him;
You opened the door for what will be filled with many answers from members. Your questions are good questions that are always brought up in discussions in my circle of people. With the blessings and curses of social media, Christianity arouses the non-believers.
Whose fault is the FALL of true Christianity?? What the heck happened? In Genesis 3 the fall of Adam and Eve was the first recorded sin. They fell to the deception of the serpent, and throughout the Old and New Testaments. Through the centuries the fall deepened as people and believers strayed from obedience to disobedience. 1 John 1:10
How on earth is it even possible that a CHRISTIAN denomination would EMBRACE and even ACCEPT the sin of same sex marriages?
The Pastoral ministry is aware of Canada, Europe, UK, Africa, Middle East and the United State, etc..all have fallen into denominations that develop sinful practices from theological divides and fellow believers who don't follow the true teachings of God in Christ Jesus.
How is it possible that so many women are now "pastors"? This not Biblical but the Churches that choose to slant God's Word develop their own doctrine that ordains women as Pastors. There is no Scripture that affirms women have served as Pastors. However, God does reveal the anointed roles of Godly women throughout the Bible such as Deborah, Ruth, Naomi, Esther, Mary, Phoebe, etc...in other assigned services for the Kingdom.
If one BELIEVES that the Bible is GOD BREATHED... WHY would someone think that the rules will change just because society does? That someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing and has a gift of charisma, manipulation, influence to change God's rules and like the pied piper, will lead the blind through the wide gate and blend with society.
I personally don't judge you for not going to Church. I do pray that God will guide you to find an anointed Church. There are many obedient Churches that is God's intention for them to exist. There also exist Churches that are broken and there may be one or two that are there to minister and turn the Church back to Christ. We just don't think about that.
God bless you, In Awe of Him, and I hope my answers help a little.
Bob
Thank YOU bobinfaith. I am away for the rest of today... so I guess I might have a bombardment of answers in the morning.
I think the worst thing that I could have done is join a Christian chatroom at the very beginning of my search for JESUS. From that
experience... I got everyone and their dog decide it was their duty to TEACH me. Most of what I heard was disturbing to me from the get-go.
Perhaps, in retrospect... this bombardment of different doctrines and beliefs was a blessing in disguise. God somehow heard my CRY to FIND the truth about WHO HE REALLY WAS. I spent decades on this journey. When I had my experience at the lake three years ago... although I did not hear an AUDIBLE voice... .I did hear a voice HA... that told me... I am WHO I SAY I AM.
I have often wondered how people get deceived into believing CRAZY things. I guess that makes me sound arrogant but I am starting to realize that having a NON TRUSTING mindset has perhaps done me some good and protected me.
For someone who is NOT churched... I think for the most part... I am believing sound doctrine. I agree with a very large percent of what I read within these forums... so I am at least on the right road.
God bless you my dear brother and everyone else who has to put up with me. HAHA
I think the worst thing that I could have done is join a Christian chatroom at the very beginning of my search for JESUS. From that
experience... I got everyone and their dog decide it was their duty to TEACH me. Most of what I heard was disturbing to me from the get-go.
Perhaps, in retrospect... this bombardment of different doctrines and beliefs was a blessing in disguise. God somehow heard my CRY to FIND the truth about WHO HE REALLY WAS. I spent decades on this journey. When I had my experience at the lake three years ago... although I did not hear an AUDIBLE voice... .I did hear a voice HA... that told me... I am WHO I SAY I AM.
I have often wondered how people get deceived into believing CRAZY things. I guess that makes me sound arrogant but I am starting to realize that having a NON TRUSTING mindset has perhaps done me some good and protected me.
For someone who is NOT churched... I think for the most part... I am believing sound doctrine. I agree with a very large percent of what I read within these forums... so I am at least on the right road.
God bless you my dear brother and everyone else who has to put up with me. HAHA
I'm the law breaker on every count. Truly.."I'm guilty!"
Jesus is the law keeper on every count. Yet.."I'm forgiven!"
...Amazing Grace.
Can a non-believer turn their life around?????
Probably. I am sure that there has been. I would add though that re-hab centers are full of people that have been there 4 or 5 times.
Personally, from my observation that any change they make will not be a lasting one.
I agree with you. No one has the right to THINK anything about someone else.
What I am referring to is "observed known Sin"! There is a huge difference in what we are talking about and what Jesus told us to do.
No mamn......it is not hypocritical for a church leader to life a life in accordance to the Bible. That is what all Christians should do !
Consider John 7:24 and the words from God Himself........
“Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly”.
Now please understand.........I am in NO way trying to tell you how to think or act!!!! All I am doing is trying to teach you corectly what the Bible teaches us to do and to be.
"Judge not" is one of the most over-used clichés in discussions of Christianity.
Without the proper context, This gives the impression that Jesus simply said, "Do not judge." However that is not the case.
In fact, Jesus often made a point of telling others that they should judge, but only "with right judgment," as stated here in John 7:24.
Jesus' frequent teaching was that we should not be superficial in our assessment of other people. However, it is crucial that we separate what is good from what is evil and that is what is seen in Ephesians 5:8–16.
This statement follows a direct challenge to the spiritual authority of Jerusalem's religious leaders. Despite having no formal education, Jesus is confounding his critics. He has accused them of hard-headedness and disobedience and even attempted violence as well as calling them "vipers". That my dear sister is "judging by observed actions of sin".
I did not go out as I was supposed to.
When I say we are not to judge... I think a better term to this is.... WE need to be very WISE in our thoughts and judgements... God has
much grace for the Christian who is struggling with issues.
I severely judge WHO I allow to speak into my heart. Believe it or not... you are one person that I have allowed to speak into my life because you have proven yourself to have SOUND DOCTRINE.... so... I am NOT trying to be difficult or disagreeable.
There are many Christian teachers I have JUDGED as being deceived and so I do NOT listen to them.
I think I am mixing up multiple topics... I am talking about judging whether someone is saved or not. There are some Christians who have addiction issues.... They are very AWARE that they are in BONDAGE... and have sincerely begged Jesus for help. These are the cases where I believe GOD is not finished UNTIL we take our last breath... and what about those who just did not have the strength to conquer their demons? Do they just go to hell because life was too hard.?? THIS Is what I am talking about.
I have absolutely NO sympathy for those who TEACH perverted DOCTRINES. I have no idea if they are going to heaven or hell... but there are several who I can't even bear to say their names because I tremble in fear for them.
I think correction definitely has a place... and I agree we are told to gently correct our brothers and sisters who are in lifestyle of sin. I guess I just figured these people are NOT even attending church.
I have however heard horror stories of people made to stand before the congregation and confess that they have sinned. Humiliation is NEVER a good thing.
Anyways... I will try and understand what you are saying.
I think we might be believing the same thing but I am stuck on the judging issue because I have seen it abused.
When I say we are not to judge... I think a better term to this is.... WE need to be very WISE in our thoughts and judgements... God has
much grace for the Christian who is struggling with issues.
I severely judge WHO I allow to speak into my heart. Believe it or not... you are one person that I have allowed to speak into my life because you have proven yourself to have SOUND DOCTRINE.... so... I am NOT trying to be difficult or disagreeable.
There are many Christian teachers I have JUDGED as being deceived and so I do NOT listen to them.
I think I am mixing up multiple topics... I am talking about judging whether someone is saved or not. There are some Christians who have addiction issues.... They are very AWARE that they are in BONDAGE... and have sincerely begged Jesus for help. These are the cases where I believe GOD is not finished UNTIL we take our last breath... and what about those who just did not have the strength to conquer their demons? Do they just go to hell because life was too hard.?? THIS Is what I am talking about.
I have absolutely NO sympathy for those who TEACH perverted DOCTRINES. I have no idea if they are going to heaven or hell... but there are several who I can't even bear to say their names because I tremble in fear for them.
I think correction definitely has a place... and I agree we are told to gently correct our brothers and sisters who are in lifestyle of sin. I guess I just figured these people are NOT even attending church.
I have however heard horror stories of people made to stand before the congregation and confess that they have sinned. Humiliation is NEVER a good thing.
Anyways... I will try and understand what you are saying.
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I believe that the old sin nature does die...gradually?
TRUE CHRISTIANITY has not failed nor can it
how is it possible i doubt they was ever truly saved . as the end times increase we are going to see more of this paul wrote timothy
1 Timothy 4
King James Version
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. these things was taking place in in the Apostle Paul time. and teh Spirit showed him the future . look at the tale end
1. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; ,
2conscience seared with a hot iron; in romans it reads God will give them over to a reprobate mind.
Galatians 1:8 5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
this is what is happening--
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
simply put they are tares not real wheat Man church is in trouble.. God Church is just fine.
as long as we stay connected to the true vine we are just fine. we just need to be on guard that we dont get deceived
even Jesus told his disciples let no man deceive you. just make sure you know the truth--my 2 cents
gradually yes but will always be there walk in the spirit is the key
the Bible says try the spirits to see if they are of God. i did a wedding for a couple a while back in their home. they tried tell that eve was adam 2nd wife. i will say this you really need to find you a true Bible believing Church. take your time visit follow with your Bible. ask questions here comes the part that may not sit well.. do not use this forum as your Church source. yes there are good people that will help but then there can be those who have a self agenda.
i am wired different than most i can name off some good ministers to listen to on you tube. if you like . but dont use them as your church either . use them as extra feed
I really appreciate what you have written to me. I don't have a problem with stating that forums are NOT church. I agree with that... but these are my brothers and sisters in Christ... and for now.. that is all I've got.
I have looked at what is available for churches here in my city... and honestly... there is NO where that I desire to go. That is me being honest.
I wish you were right but alas, the sin nature is with us until the moment we die.
read Romans chapter 6. I have posted a verse by verse teacheing on Romans on this site under "Doctrinal: section and I deal with just this topic there.
According to Romans 6 the sin nature loses its control over Christians by our identity with the death of Christ. That means that we can Choose to not obey the sin nature because we are no longer sin’s slaves. However, Although it no longer holds legal authority over us, it continues with us till we die.
That is why Paul wrote in Romans 3:23.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
The statement here is short and to the point: Everyone sins. Everyone has sinned. There is no one who does not sin and that includes all Christians.
Christians are "forgiven" sinners but sinners still because the sin nature never ends till we die.
I completely understand your post. Actually I am in agreement with you.
Please believe me that what I say to you I support with Scriptures and in my position in the past as a Pastor, I have had the sad duty of having to judge church members and demanding their repentance.
With the help of deacons, I have had to approach a church member for inappropriate touching of women. Several women told me.
I have had to do same thing with a member for using curse words and bad language. I heard their language.
I have had to confront a couple engaged in an affair and demand their repentance. When I approached them they confessed.
I could go on but what I am saying is that when "observed or reported as valid" at judgment must then be made by church leaders to confron, ask for repentance of Known sin in a way to keep that person as a church member.
If.....again, IF that is not done, then any church that does not "judge, confront and demand repentance" will become known as nothing more that a house of hypocrites in the community.
Another example. 40 years ago I made judgment. There would not be any "smoking or alcohol" consumption on church grounds.
Now tobacco use and alchohol consumption atr not forbidden in the Scriptures. I made that judgment based on one thing............
1 Thess. 5:22-23..............
"Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
The church and its grounds should not look like the bar down the street! That was my judgment!
Me toooooo!