Sheol/Hades study

[Major]

Luke 16: 22-23 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom...
This parable is allegorical and is said to express Jesus' condemnation on the Pharisees, Scribes and others who were wealthy at the expense of the poor and needy. Failing in love and charity, and mercy. Quick to cast sins onto others, but never examining themselves.
It is allegorical, because in all other scriptures when people die (except for a couple of Old Testament exceptions) their souls go to Sheol/Hades. You go to the grave, the land of forgetfulness. Your soul is not carried away by angels to Abraham's bosom. This is a very Jewish parable most probably also for the ears of the Sadducees that denied the resurrection of souls.
This parable does not conflict with the Lake of Fire as the final place of torment and despair for all whose names are not written in the Book Of Life.

I can not agree brother. When "Proper" names are used it can not be a parable. REAL names means REAL people....always!!

This particular story does not fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration. The story of the rich man and Lazarus presents spiritual truth directly, with no earthly metaphor and again, the use of Proper names. The setting for most of the story is the afterlife, as opposed to the parables, which unfold in earthly contexts.

Your thinking is incorrect on Sheol/Hades. ALL the Old test people at death had their spirits enter Sheol. The lost were on the TORMENTS side as was the rich man. The saints of God were on the Abraham bosom side and were separated by a wide gulf which was the "Paradise" side.. That is how Jesus could say from the cross to the thief..."TODAY you will be with me in PARADISE".

The Bible then tells us that before Jesus ascended He 1st descended to Hades and there He took the spirits of the saints with Him to heaven.

Ephesians 4:8-10........
"But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive,And gave gifts to men.
9 Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

1 Peter 3:19-22 confirms ...........
"by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him."

Today, when an unbeliever dies, he follows the Old Testament unbelievers to the torment side of Hades. At the final judgment, Hades will be emptied before the Great White Throne, where its occupants will be judged prior to entering the lake of fire and that is found in Revelation 20:13–15.

Now, today there are no saints in Paradise because the Bible says that at death............
when a believer dies today, he is “present with the Lord” in heaven as is clearly stated in 2 Corinthians 5:6–9. There, he joins the Old Testament saints who have been enjoying their reward for thousands of years.

 

[Waggles]

None of what you write is correct. You do not understand the scriptures that you quote.
No one when they die goes to either heaven or hell. No one goes to the bosom of Abraham.
The Scriptures clearly give a consistent message that when people die their souls sleep in Sheol or Hades.
Those who are of the Lord's sheep who sleep will be woken up before the living, and then all will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye to be with the Lord forever. This is the marriage feast. The first resurrection. A thousand years later, there will be a second resurrection for the remainder of the entire human race who were never a part of Israel [Ephraim and Judah] - the sea and the grave shall give up their dead. The great White Throne of Judgment.
You are preaching Roman Catholic doctrine, not the Bible.

 

[Abdicate]

None of what you write is correct. You do not understand the scriptures that you quote.
No one when they die goes to either heaven or hell. No one goes to the bosom of Abraham.
The Scriptures clearly give a consistent message that when people die their souls sleep in Sheol or Hades.
Those who are of the Lord's sheep who sleep will be woken up before the living, and then all will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye to be with the Lord forever. This is the marriage feast. The first resurrection. A thousand years later, there will be a second resurrection for the remainder of the entire human race who were never a part of Israel [Ephraim and Judah] - the sea and the grave shall give up their dead. The great White Throne of Judgment.
You are preaching Roman Catholic doctrine, not the Bible.

Not true.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (KJV)

Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
​

Also, if that's true, then Moses died and is still there... but that's not what the scriptures say:

Matthew 17:2-3 (KJV)

And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.​

Opps... I guess he's not asleep in the grave... he was talking with Jesus.

What of Samuel being brought up from paradise that Jesus spoke of in Luke 16.

1 Samuel 28:15 (KJV)

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.​

Don't fall for that soul sleep garbage.

 

[Waggles]

Don't fall for that soul sleep garbage

None of these examples disprove souls sleep and await their resurrection.
Moses and Elijah may well have been brought up out of the grave to partake of Christ's revealed glory; very pertinent to Peter, James and John to confirm their Messiah, the Christ. To see Moses and Elijah would have confirmed everything about the Law and the Prophets.
Samuel's example of being called up by the witch of Endor in contravention to the Law is a pretty strong indicator of someone who is disturbed from their place of rest: "and Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?"
1Samuel 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
1Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
1Samuel 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
1Samuel 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
If Samuel was in paradise or heaven then how could a sorceress, an unGodly person, call him up from the heavenly realm? Having a familiar spirit is to do with ghosts and the dead.
1Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Thessalonians 4:14-17
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Psalm 88

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. G3857 > paradeisos > par-ad'-i-sos > Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
A controversial verse indeed. My reading is that Jesus is saying to this malefactor that he has been forgiven. The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus went to the grave, even to Hades and preached to the souls down there. Jesus did not ascend up into heaven until 40 days after his resurrection. So the thief did not go to heaven with Jesus on that day; he went to, the grave as all do, but with a promise concerning his forgiveness and future.
The same applies to all of us.

 

[Abdicate]

Timeline brother, timeline. Your theology is mixed up and out of context. Anyhow, believe as you see fit.

 

[ATP]

Hades is a Greek term used in the New Testament as a rough equivalent to the Hebrew word sheol and also describes the grave or location of the spirits of the dead. Since the NT is written in the Greek and especially Luke, he used the words that were effective for him to use. No real mystery there IMO.

Gehenna is a Greek word used in the New Testament that referred to the Valley of Hinnom, an actual valley outside of Jerusalem known as a burning rubbish pile. When used as a term for the dead, it was a way of noting a place of judgment in the afterlife.

I already know what Hades and Gehenna are, that wasn't the question.

The question was, "Why did Luke use Hades (the grave) to describe hell-fire?"

Timeline brother, timeline. Your theology is mixed up and out of context. Anyhow, believe as you see fit.

I don't think we would be walking around as breath. In Greek the word spirit or breath is Pneuma and in the Hebrew there are two words, Neshamah and Ruach. Neshamah and Ruach both mean breath literally and spirit figuratively. There are slight nuances between these two words but both mean the same basic thing. In the NT we see sleep being used as a metaphor for death, however, there is no reason to think that death in the NT is any different than what we saw in the OT....

Psa 6:4-5 NIV Turn, Lord, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love. 5Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?

Psa 30:9 NIV "What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?

Psa 88:9-12 NIV my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, Lord, every day; I spread out my hands to you. 10Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

Isa 38:18 NIV For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness

Job 10:18-22 NIV “Why then did you bring me out of the womb? I wish I had died before any eye saw me. 19If only I had never come into being, or had been carried straight from the womb to the grave! 20Are not my few days almost over? Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy 21before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness, 22to the land of deepest night, of utter darkness and disorder, where even the light is like darkness.”

Job 14:10-15 NIV But a man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. 11As the water of a lake dries up or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, 12so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep. 13“If only you would hide me in the grave and conceal me till your anger has passed! If only you would set me a time and then remember me! 14If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewalb to come. 15You will call and I will answer you; you will long for the creature your hands have made.

 

[Waggles]

John 5: 27-29
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11: 23-27
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Psalm 17: 15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Daniel 12: 2-3
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

 

[ATP]

John 5: 27-29
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11: 23-27
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Psalm 17: 15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Daniel 12: 2-3
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Good work.

John 3:13 NIV No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

 

[Abdicate]

I guess neither of you have ever taken a poetry class... "sleep" is a euphemism for "death of the body"... if you have to discard ONE verse to make your theory fit, it's a lie.

Paul wanted to die so he could be with Christ!

Philippians 1:22-24 (ESV2011)

If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.
​

If we're dead in the grave, who are the ten thousands of His saints coming back with Him?

Jude 1:14-15 (KJV)

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.​

We are already raised from the dead before we die!

Romans 8:11 (KJV)

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
​

2 Corinthians 4:18-5:3 (KJV)

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal. For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.​

The cherry on top:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

I'm done. You have a flawed theology and you can quote all the poetic scriptures you want, it won't change the fact you cannot incorporate these verses into your ideas.

 

[Waggles]

Well I guess the moment of truth will settle the debate for each and every one of us.

 

[Major]

Good work.

John 3:13 NIV No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

That is a correct comment but it DOES NOT support your theology my brother.

What about Enoch and Elijah. Where did they go when translated?????

As I explained to your already.....and on the basis of the verse in John 3:13 we can understand that they and all the Old Test. Saints spirits went to the Paradise/Abraham's Bobom of Sheol/Hades. That is where the Old Test. saints went and that confirmation is in Luke 16 22......through the rest of that chapter.

It was not until Christ died and asended to heaven and at that time He led "captivity" captive and took those in Paradise into the presence of God in heaven.

Ephesians 4:7-9...........
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
8 Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.
9 Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also firstc]' descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

Since then, for the child of God it has aleays been........"Absent from the body and present with the Lord as told to us in 2 Cort. 5:8. But as the verse quoted states, when Jesus was here, no other man had asended yet to heaven.

 

[Major]

John 5: 27-29
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11: 23-27
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Psalm 17: 15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Daniel 12: 2-3
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Lets consider the verse you have quoted and apply a differant understanding to them.

1). John 5: 27-29
Does this mean that the person in the grave hears? NO!
This passage is referring to SPIRITIAL death. Death means seperation from God BUT the hour is coming at the Rapture when those in the grave will hear Hiis voice and shall live however, the hour is NOW when those who are sopiritually dead hear His voice and live.
So in verses 25-28 He is talking about TWO seperate things. The time in NOW when Christ gives Spiritual life and the hour is COMING when He will raise the dead from the grave.

2). John 11: 23-27
Martha knew from the Old Test. that there would be a resurrection from the dead, but she did not believe that Jesus could do that now to help her with Lazerus.
You see, if we have Jesus NOW we have life eternally. Jesus said .....
"He that believeth in me thought he were dead" is referring to SPIRITUAL dead.......
"yet shall he live".

Life actually begins at the moment we beomce BORN AGAIN! Whosoever lives and believes in Christ will never die because of what Christ has done for us. That is.....we will never die a penal death for our sins and will never be seperated from God.

3). Psalm 17: 15
He speaks here of the resurrection; he calls it an awaking, for you know death is called a sleep. "Those that are asleep in the Lord shall rise first." He had spoken before of those that had put their happiness in the comforts of this life, suitable to their bodies, to the animal state of their bodies; that is clear by the fourteenth verse, "Deliver me from the men that are thine hand, O Lord, who have their portion in this life, whose belly thou fillest with thy treasure: they are full of children, and leave to them outward things," bodily things. "But as for me," saith he, "I will behold thy face in thy righteousness" (there is the vision of God which is his happiness in his soul): "and I shall be satisfied when I awake" (when I rise again), "with thine image." It is not the image of God only upon himself that he means here. Why? Because that doth not satisfy a holy heart, but it is that image of the invisible God which the human nature of Jesus Christ is, who, in opposition to all these outward pleasures, will be all in all to us; he is a spiritual creature, his human nature is spiritualised, made glorious, and our bodies shall be made spiritual likewise.
(http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/treasury-of-david/psalms-17-15.html).

4.) Daniel 12: 2-3
This is of course a referance to the Jewish remnant living in and through the Great Tribulation who will be preserved and that great number of Gentiles who will be saved during that time.
They will be resurrected to everlasting life at the end of the Tribulation.

 

[Major]

I already know what Hades and Gehenna are, that wasn't the question.

The question was, "Why did Luke use Hades (the grave) to describe hell-fire?"



I don't think we would be walking around as breath. In Greek the word spirit or breath is Pneuma and in the Hebrew there are two words, Neshamah and Ruach. Neshamah and Ruach both mean breath literally and spirit figuratively. There are slight nuances between these two words but both mean the same basic thing. In the NT we see sleep being used as a metaphor for death, however, there is no reason to think that death in the NT is any different than what we saw in the OT....

Psa 6:4-5 NIV Turn, Lord, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love. 5Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?

Psa 30:9 NIV "What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?

Psa 88:9-12 NIV my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, Lord, every day; I spread out my hands to you. 10Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

Isa 38:18 NIV For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness

Job 10:18-22 NIV “Why then did you bring me out of the womb? I wish I had died before any eye saw me. 19If only I had never come into being, or had been carried straight from the womb to the grave! 20Are not my few days almost over? Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy 21before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness, 22to the land of deepest night, of utter darkness and disorder, where even the light is like darkness.”

Job 14:10-15 NIV But a man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. 11As the water of a lake dries up or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, 12so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep. 13“If only you would hide me in the grave and conceal me till your anger has passed! If only you would set me a time and then remember me! 14If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewalb to come. 15You will call and I will answer you; you will long for the creature your hands have made.

You said.......
"Why did Luke use Hades (the grave) to describe hell-fire?"

Because he wanted to define it correctly!

 

[Major]

None of these examples disprove souls sleep and await their resurrection.
Moses and Elijah may well have been brought up out of the grave to partake of Christ's revealed glory; very pertinent to Peter, James and John to confirm their Messiah, the Christ. To see Moses and Elijah would have confirmed everything about the Law and the Prophets.
Samuel's example of being called up by the witch of Endor in contravention to the Law is a pretty strong indicator of someone who is disturbed from their place of rest: "and Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?"
1Samuel 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
1Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
1Samuel 28:13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
1Samuel 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
If Samuel was in paradise or heaven then how could a sorceress, an unGodly person, call him up from the heavenly realm? Having a familiar spirit is to do with ghosts and the dead.
1Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Thessalonians 4:14-17
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Psalm 88

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. G3857 > paradeisos > par-ad'-i-sos > Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
A controversial verse indeed. My reading is that Jesus is saying to this malefactor that he has been forgiven. The Scriptures clearly state that Jesus went to the grave, even to Hades and preached to the souls down there. Jesus did not ascend up into heaven until 40 days after his resurrection. So the thief did not go to heaven with Jesus on that day; he went to, the grave as all do, but with a promise concerning his forgiveness and future.
The same applies to all of us.

The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical.

When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep.

The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in the torments of hell (Luke 16:22-23).

 

[ATP]

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.​

2 Cor 5:8 is not about your spirit breath living with God in heaven. I don't think our "breath" would be walking around heaven right? 2 Cor 5:8 is about the first resurrection and works off of 1 Cor 15:50-54. Notice that 1 Cor 15:50-54 and 2 Cor 5:1-10 both speak of the first resurrection, immortality and being swallowed up.

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-10 NIV For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7For we live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

 

[ATP]

You said.......
"Why did Luke use Hades (the grave) to describe hell-fire?"

Because he wanted to define it correctly!

But he didn't define it correctly because Hades is the grave and not hell-fire. Do you think there's another reason Luke did that.

 

[ATP]

When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep.

I don't think we would be walking around as breath. In Greek the word spirit or breath is Pneuma and in the Hebrew there are two words, Neshamah and Ruach. Neshamah and Ruach both mean breath literally and spirit figuratively. There are slight nuances between these two words but both mean the same basic thing. In the NT we see sleep being used as a metaphor for death, however, there is no reason to think that death in the NT is any different than what we saw in the OT....

Psa 6:4-5 NIV Turn, Lord, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love. 5Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?

Psa 30:9 NIV "What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?

Psa 88:9-12 NIV my eyes are dim with grief. I call to you, Lord, every day; I spread out my hands to you. 10Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you? 11Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ? 12Are your wonders known in the place of darkness, or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?

Isa 38:18 NIV For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness

Job 10:18-22 NIV “Why then did you bring me out of the womb? I wish I had died before any eye saw me. 19If only I had never come into being, or had been carried straight from the womb to the grave! 20Are not my few days almost over? Turn away from me so I can have a moment’s joy 21before I go to the place of no return, to the land of gloom and utter darkness, 22to the land of deepest night, of utter darkness and disorder, where even the light is like darkness.”

Job 14:10-15 NIV But a man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more. 11As the water of a lake dries up or a riverbed becomes parched and dry, 12so he lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, people will not awake or be roused from their sleep. 13“If only you would hide me in the grave and conceal me till your anger has passed! If only you would set me a time and then remember me! 14If someone dies, will they live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewalb to come. 15You will call and I will answer you; you will long for the creature your hands have made.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8

You need to read it in its full context..2 Cor 5:1-10. 2 Cor 5:8 is not about your spirit breath living with God in heaven. I don't think our "breath" would be walking around heaven right? 2 Cor 5:8 is about the first resurrection and works off of 1 Cor 15:50-54. Notice that 1 Cor 15:50-54 and 2 Cor 5:1-10 both speak of the first resurrection, immortality and being swallowed up.

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-10 NIV For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7For we live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

 

[Waggles]

Sleep in the Scriptures does not refer to physical death, nor dead bodies and their decay. Dust to dust.
Sleep is pretty well always in reference to souls - it is the spiritual sleep of souls that await the resurrection as described in dozens of scripture verses.
Considering that most christians cannot agree on the basics; such as what is The church, or what is The gospel of salvation, or the commandment for water baptism (immersion), or these signs shall follow, or the evidence of Holy Spirit baptism ... then it is the same for what happens to our souls after death.
As usual it degenerates into a matter of opinions, much influence by Roman Catholic teaching over the centuries.
Thank God the Holy Spirit guides and teaches me the Holy Scriptures, and Jesus himself teaches his saints through the operation of the voice gifts at each of our Revival meetings, lest I should believe Catholic doctrine.
And much of your doctrine depends on some fictitious doctrine of the 'rapture' and a great tribulation that saints shall be beamed up to escape.What a load of nonsense. If your are not ready now, and do not watch and pray you will not survive the nuclear war that is coming upon the whole Earth.
And believe me mate, that is in the Scriptures. What do you think Wormwood is all about?

 

[ATP]

For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in the torments of hell (Luke 16:22-23).

I'm thinking that he used Hades instead of Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, so we would make the distinction between the priesthood in this life vs. the afterlife. If Luke used Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, then we would be certain he was referring to the afterlife, but he didn't. So we know he was simply telling a story about the demise of the priesthood and has nothing to do with the afterlife. Luke could of wrote it like this, but he didn't......

Example 1: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Gehenna, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Example 2: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In the Lake of Fire, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Let's take a look at Luke 16:19 NIV “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

1. Purple is a color which is used in Scripture for the following: priestly garments (Ex. 39:2,24,29); royal apparel (Judges 8:26; Esther 8:15); and is synonymous with wealth in Rev. 18:16.

2. Fine linen was used extensively in the priestly garments such as the ephod, robe, mitre, and bonnet. (Ex. 39). Linen is used as a symbol of wealth in Rev. 18:16.

3. Only one class in Israel was habitually clothed in purple and linen and fared sumptuously every day4 - the High Priestly class of Sadducees.5 Caiaphas is likely the unnamed (for obvious reasons) rich man.

- ATP

 

[Major]

I'm thinking that he used Hades instead of Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, so we would make the distinction between the priesthood in this life vs. the afterlife. If Luke used Gehenna or the Lake of Fire, then we would be certain he was referring to the afterlife, but he didn't. So we know he was simply telling a story about the demise of the priesthood and has nothing to do with the afterlife. Luke could of wrote it like this, but he didn't......

Example 1: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Gehenna, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Example 2: Verse 22-23 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In the Lake of Fire, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Let's take a look at Luke 16:19 NIV “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

1. Purple is a color which is used in Scripture for the following: priestly garments (Ex. 39:2,24,29); royal apparel (Judges 8:26; Esther 8:15); and is synonymous with wealth in Rev. 18:16.

2. Fine linen was used extensively in the priestly garments such as the ephod, robe, mitre, and bonnet. (Ex. 39). Linen is used as a symbol of wealth in Rev. 18:16.

3. Only one class in Israel was habitually clothed in purple and linen and fared sumptuously every day4 - the High Priestly class of Sadducees.5 Caiaphas is likely the unnamed (for obvious reasons) rich man.

- ATP

And sometimes it is what it is. And sometimes we look to hard to find something that just is not there.

Luke COULD have done that but what he did write was..........
22-23......"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:
(The location of the spirits of the dead-the Paradise side of hell. His body was buried in the ground.)
the rich man also died, and was buried;
(His body was in the ground but his spirit was also in hell-the Torments side),
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

I really think you are working way too hard over words. IMO......It is what it is!!!!