Should Christians tithe 10 percent?

[Major]

A question that has not been examined: "When you say church, do you mean the people, the building, or the corporation?" That can be a thorny question. In another forum someone asked about a beggar who came into the church asking for a gift. Wow, does that ever stir up emotions.

So are you actually giving to somebody, or paying a tax, or building your own "house of god" that you can be proud of, or are you dumping to show off that you can afford to waste resources?

Numbers 18:24
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

God mostly commanded to give tithes and offerings to Levites, but in one case He specified to bring them into His house. When Jesus talked about giving, it seems clear enough that he meant giving to one another, or to strangers, and according to need.

Another thorny question: The US constitution singles out "institutions of religion", but corporations are created by permission of the government. What exactly are you worshipping when you talk about a church? Who or what are you actually giving to? Or are you actually trying to buy righteousness?

I do not know who you are asking but IMO and for me, the money given to the church is the LOCAL church I belong to.
We have bills to pay just l ike you do. The Electric, water, and salaries for those who clean and keep up the property have to be paid or there will be NO church to carry on the charge of the Lord Jesus Christ......…."Go ye into the world and ...…....."!

Malichi 3:8-10.........….
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. (9) Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (10) Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

Those verses are sometimes used by churches to say that tithing should be done today. The "storehouse," is equated with the Temple, and the Temple is equated with the church. In other words, Christians today must "tithe" to their local church, just as the Israelites were commanded to "tithe" to the storehouse.

That just is not true today.

The "storehouse" was not specifically the Temple, but rather, the storehouse was rooms which surrounded the Temple, built specifically for the purpose of storing grain so that it could be given out again in times of famine. Food was the primary thing stored in the "storehouse" and that is seen in Old Test. Scriptures.

 

[Lanolin]

In some areas we dont need to pay for water. Its free.
As for electricty, we dont really need it. We could have solar power.

Also in the old days, there was no electricity, and people used candles. In the temples, they had menorah lampstands.

As for salary, it was paid in salt. Salary original meant actually salt. Thats where man worth his salt comes from. Salt of the earth. Jesus says, we are to be salt and light, if the salt loses its saltiness, its worthless and ought to be thrown out.

When we give alms which is money, its actually used in the ministry for the church members. Not given for the leaders to keep or pay bills or to caesar (govt taxes). Actually churches are exempt from paying things like rates etc cos in some countries they are registered non profits.

The land the church grounds is on is meant to be sacred, held in covenant. Actually in the old days people were buried in church grounds. That was our graveyeards, not a parking lot. Why because Jesus blood paid for it. He paid for everything, how can we ever repay it? No sacrifice or offering could earn or pay for what Jesus himself gave us.

I do think that the whole tithing thing needs to be looked at in terms of Jesus sacrifice and how if WE are the temples of the holy spirit, we juts get out of the mindset that we need to reinstate the whole temple system in our local churches complete with another set of levites and repeat of what they did in the OT.

I mean how you going to record what everyone gives anyway its all free will offerings. Some peoples incomes are not even regular, it could be seasonal. In the old days it was you only had one month of the year to harvest your crops. In parts of the world where there are temperate climates youd be lucky to get one crop, in others you could have crops all year round. What some pastors try and convince people is they have to give on a weekly basis. Well thats not going to happen because things dont always grow that way all year round.

 

[rtm3039]

I have a copy of his original book published in 1949 and EBAY sells it for $499.

Nice.

rtm3039

 

[Lanolin]

The day of the harvest shavout was when everyone gave the tithe. What was the day to day offering was the bread.

If we still operated under moses and had the temple then yes, it would make sense to do it Gods way as its written in leviticus

But we dont have the temple like they did anymore. And we know it wasnt working because the Pharisees tithed their cumin and mint and ignored all the other parts of the law.

I dont recall many churches having a storehouse and a harvest day when everyone brings their food in. What happens now is carboot sales and potlucks.

 

[rtm3039]

I have a copy of his original book published in 1949 and EBAY sells it for $499.

Major,

I have a bible printed in Darmstadt, Germany in 1885. Taking into account how few bibles survived WWII, I was surprised I found one. It's all in German, so its hard to read.

.

 

[Siloam]

I am sorry to tell you this but your 1st Pastor was wrong. Our time and energy has nothing to do with the tithe.

His point was that our responsibility to the Lord was not only monetary through tithes, but all aspects of our life even if that is not strictly speaking tithing.

 

[QuintessenceOfDust]

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

There is a church campus about a mile down the road from my parents home. There is a rule for joining the congregation. Even if one enters in for a first time visit they are apprised of this rule by the Deacons who spot them immediately as a new face. Especially when they are Caucasian.
That rule is, if you choose to join that church you have to bring your W-2 forms.

So no, a Christian doesn't have to tithe 10%. I would rather a Christian donate food to their local food bank, clothes to the local shelter. Because any church that claims you have to tithe is telling you there is an admission fee charged to hear their preacher preach.

A preacher should also have a job. And the monies that do come in as offerings should go into an account that sustains the building, and the congregation who are of need.

How to identify a wolf wearing sheeps wool. Their congregation arrives in the parking lot driving older model cars or basic new models.
The pastor parks in a designated space and drives a Bentley.

Jesus and his Disciples walked everywhere they went.

 

[Major]

His point was that our responsibility to the Lord was not only monetary through tithes, but all aspects of our life even if that is not strictly speaking tithing.

I am of the opinion that those are 2 different things.

Your financial support is one thing and your time in supporting the ministry is another and your time spent doing the ministry can not be counted as financial support.

 

[Major]

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

There is a church campus about a mile down the road from my parents home. There is a rule for joining the congregation. Even if one enters in for a first time visit they are apprised of this rule by the Deacons who spot them immediately as a new face. Especially when they are Caucasian.
That rule is, if you choose to join that church you have to bring your W-2 forms.

So no, a Christian doesn't have to tithe 10%. I would rather a Christian donate food to their local food bank, clothes to the local shelter. Because any church that claims you have to tithe is telling you there is an admission fee charged to hear their preacher preach.

A preacher should also have a job. And the monies that do come in as offerings should go into an account that sustains the building, and the congregation who are of need.

How to identify a wolf wearing sheeps wool. Their congregation arrives in the parking lot driving older model cars or basic new models.
The pastor parks in a designated space and drives a Bentley.

Jesus and his Disciples walked everywhere they went.

A church should not be made up of rules. That is legalism and is not part of the New Test. church.

Any one who has to show a W-2 form to jpin a church has just entered the Twilit Zone. We as Christians according to the Scriptures can give anything we want to give. Paul says to "give to God as you are blessed by God.

If it hurts you to give, then that is actually a sacrifice.

I agree about a pastor working......up to a point. A small church. lets say 50 or less people does not need a full time paid pastor. He can be bi-vocational and the church will do fine.

However when the church reaches a point where he can not minister to all the people, that is when the church can afford to pay their pastor.

I would also say that a false prophet will be known by his position on the Christ. Jesus is the Christ and he will preach Jesus. If not then he is not a Christain at all.

 

[sandpiper]

I agree we should tithe 10 per cent as it is biblical and my pastor encourages it. However, not sure if as retired and no longer employed whether we should tithe on our social security checks as seems that is giving twice if we previously gave on our income when working. Other means of income, yes. Thoughts on this?

 

[rtm3039]

A church should not be made up of rules. That is legalism and is not part of the New Test. church.

Any one who has to show a W-2 form to jpin a church has just entered the Twilit Zone. We as Christians according to the Scriptures can give anything we want to give. Paul says to "give to God as you are blessed by God.

If it hurts you to give, then that is actually a sacrifice.

I agree about a pastor working......up to a point. A small church. lets say 50 or less people does not need a full time paid pastor. He can be bi-vocational and the church will do fine.

However when the church reaches a point where he can not minister to all the people, that is when the church can afford to pay their pastor.

I would also say that a false prophet will be known by his position on the Christ. Jesus is the Christ and he will preach Jesus. If not then he is not a Christain at all.

This is a topic that has received great deal of attention in this forum. “Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.” (Mark 12: 41-44 (NIV)). On the other hand, “Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.” (Deuteronomy 15:10 (NIV)).

I know many people that actually live off about 10% of what they earn. We are talking single mothers who barely make enough to meet their financial obligations to those earthly things like rent, food, car payments, student loans, etc. I am unsure that attaching a percentage to this is appropriate. We live in different times and have different obligations. These new times now include charitable contributions being tax deductible or, as sandpiper comments, “double dipping” by giving from social security retirement.

If, at one point, grain and produce were considered part of giving, I am unsure that volunteering to the church should not also be considered giving. If nothing else, tithing should be considered seasonal. By this, I mean that we are just not consistently able to afford 10% of our expendable income (probably not the best word to use). On the other hand, maybe “expendable income” is the right yard stick?

I know that all we have is that which the good Lord provides us. We are to be loyal servants to our Father, which does include being charitable to the church and others. Again, I just think that we live in different times and have created a complicated existence.

rtm3039

 

[Major]

This is a topic that has received great deal of attention in this forum. “Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents. Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.” (Mark 12: 41-44 (NIV)). On the other hand, “Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.” (Deuteronomy 15:10 (NIV)).

I know many people that actually live off about 10% of what they earn. We are talking single mothers who barely make enough to meet their financial obligations to those earthly things like rent, food, car payments, student loans, etc. I am unsure that attaching a percentage to this is appropriate. We live in different times and have different obligations. These new times now include charitable contributions being tax deductible or, as sandpiper comments, “double dipping” by giving from social security retirement.

If, at one point, grain and produce were considered part of giving, I am unsure that volunteering to the church should not also be considered giving. If nothing else, tithing should be considered seasonal. By this, I mean that we are just not consistently able to afford 10% of our expendable income (probably not the best word to use). On the other hand, maybe “expendable income” is the right yard stick?

I know that all we have is that which the good Lord provides us. We are to be loyal servants to our Father, which does include being charitable to the church and others. Again, I just think that we live in different times and have created a complicated existence.

rtm3039

I think that your comment is pretty much right on track. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says gifts should be “in keeping with income” (1 Corth. 16:2).

Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. They have done that more to guarantee themselves a regular income instead of following Bible teachings.

We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the body of Christ. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give and not base that ability of pressure from the leadership of the church itself.

 

[Major]

I agree we should tithe 10 per cent as it is biblical and my pastor encourages it. However, not sure if as retired and no longer employed whether we should tithe on our social security checks as seems that is giving twice if we previously gave on our income when working. Other means of income, yes. Thoughts on this?

You asked so I will tell you that it all depends on you. Your S/S is now your income because you are not working. BUT If you need the money you would like to give to the church to buy food or medicine then keep the money and do what you need to do...…….and do not feel guilty about it!

The Bible says that we are to give "cheerfully" and if it is a problem for you and you do not feel joyful in giving then you have your answer.

 

[QuintessenceOfDust]

A church should not be made up of rules. That is legalism and is not part of the New Test. church.

Any one who has to show a W-2 form to jpin a church has just entered the Twilit Zone. We as Christians according to the Scriptures can give anything we want to give. Paul says to "give to God as you are blessed by God.

If it hurts you to give, then that is actually a sacrifice.

I agree about a pastor working......up to a point. A small church. lets say 50 or less people does not need a full time paid pastor. He can be bi-vocational and the church will do fine.

However when the church reaches a point where he can not minister to all the people, that is when the church can afford to pay their pastor.

I would also say that a false prophet will be known by his position on the Christ. Jesus is the Christ and he will preach Jesus. If not then he is not a Christain at all.

That's the problem with the so called mega-churches as I see it. When more than 30 thousand people are in the seats, a minister isn't able to shepherd his or her flock on an individual level.
Licensing merchandise is another issue as I see it. Money. Yes, necessary to live in this world, but Jesus said to his Disciples when guiding them on their mission to spread the good news, leave your purses at home and let those who receive you take care of your needs.
A pastor that lives in a millions of dollar mansion, or has a family compound , and drives expensive cars, wears custom tailored suits, and appeals to his congregation to tithe so he can buy a six million dollar top of the line private jet, isn't following Jesus directives. At least as I see it.
When the congregation are either poor or middle class and the pastor is rich, that's not good.

I watched a TV pastor in Texas as I stopped my channel surfing last year. He admonished his congregation against freely handing out money to the needy. Because, he said, that person who receives that money will then be grateful to you. And that feeds the ego and pride. Instead, give that money to the church, meaning him, and the church, meaning him, will disperse it where it is needed. So that those who receive the gift will then be grateful to God.
To my knowledge, neither this pastor nor his church sustain any food kitchen, homeless shelter, or any such charitable entity and church sponsored, in his area.
But meanwhile he's morbidly obese, after preaching some years ago that if a disabled veteran, homeless mother, or the elderly don't work, STARVE!
I found that sermon on You Tube once. Then after a week all the copies were removed due to the church claiming copyright violation.

I bet.
Like this one guy who self-identifies as an Apostle. His congregation at his invitation to tithe purchased straight cash a former Catholic church campus. Gorgeous property and buildings. They took out all the stained glass art, claiming it was idolatry. Dismantled the giant pipe organ , for some reason, and now have more area to carry on their mission in the name of the first church of Jesus Christ.
This pastor regularly condemns other denominations, making it very personal. He even attacks the current sitting President and claims they're not really Christian.
Once he admonished his congregation to act as he acts in that anyone watching, or there for the first time, if they return to their original church and hear the pastor or bishop or apostle preach something not in scripture, challenge that man right then and there. WHERE IS IT IN THE BIBLE? He yelled.
His regular congregation would appear too afraid to follow his own advice concerning his false preaching. As one night I tuned in to hear him say, "God created Hell to get even with man!"

I waited to see someone stand up and demand the scripture that says that. There is not one of course.
Never happened.
I called their church phone, always get a voice mail and no call back. I emailed over a few months time three different times, asking for the scripture. Nothing.

Discernment can cost someone their soul if they don't know how to rightly divide the word.
Yes, that W2 church is false. But you should see their parking lot. They're so full on Sunday's that people park on the grass. And they even have a school for K-to 12th grade.

I cannot imagine what it costs for tuition to that. Or what is required. Maybe a bank statement(s)?

 

[rtm3039]

I think that your comment is pretty much right on track. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says gifts should be “in keeping with income” (1 Corth. 16:2).

Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. They have done that more to guarantee themselves a regular income instead of following Bible teachings.

We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the body of Christ. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give and not base that ability of pressure from the leadership of the church itself.

I agree. As with most churches, mine also asks for donations. You can do it in person, on-line, or set up a regularly scheduled ACH transaction. Since I am volunteer security, I now attend all three Sunday services (0900, 10:45, and 12:00). So, I will set up a weekly ACH and deal with it that way. And yes, it is a struggle to set through the same service three times in a day, but I usually work in the hall for one, the entrance for the other, and roam the campus for the third. It's actually a really nice day to spend your Sunday (0800 - 1400)

rtm3039

 

[rtm3039]

That's the problem with the so called mega-churches as I see it. When more than 30 thousand people are in the seats, a minister isn't able to shepherd his or her flock on an individual level.
Licensing merchandise is another issue as I see it. Money. Yes, necessary to live in this world, but Jesus said to his Disciples when guiding them on their mission to spread the good news, leave your purses at home and let those who receive you take care of your needs.
A pastor that lives in a millions of dollar mansion, or has a family compound , and drives expensive cars, wears custom tailored suits, and appeals to his congregation to tithe so he can buy a six million dollar top of the line private jet, isn't following Jesus directives. At least as I see it.
When the congregation are either poor or middle class and the pastor is rich, that's not good.

I watched a TV pastor in Texas as I stopped my channel surfing last year. He admonished his congregation against freely handing out money to the needy. Because, he said, that person who receives that money will then be grateful to you. And that feeds the ego and pride. Instead, give that money to the church, meaning him, and the church, meaning him, will disperse it where it is needed. So that those who receive the gift will then be grateful to God.
To my knowledge, neither this pastor nor his church sustain any food kitchen, homeless shelter, or any such charitable entity and church sponsored, in his area.
But meanwhile he's morbidly obese, after preaching some years ago that if a disabled veteran, homeless mother, or the elderly don't work, STARVE!
I found that sermon on You Tube once. Then after a week all the copies were removed due to the church claiming copyright violation.

I bet.
Like this one guy who self-identifies as an Apostle. His congregation at his invitation to tithe purchased straight cash a former Catholic church campus. Gorgeous property and buildings. They took out all the stained glass art, claiming it was idolatry. Dismantled the giant pipe organ , for some reason, and now have more area to carry on their mission in the name of the first church of Jesus Christ.
This pastor regularly condemns other denominations, making it very personal. He even attacks the current sitting President and claims they're not really Christian.
Once he admonished his congregation to act as he acts in that anyone watching, or there for the first time, if they return to their original church and hear the pastor or bishop or apostle preach something not in scripture, challenge that man right then and there. WHERE IS IT IN THE BIBLE? He yelled.
His regular congregation would appear too afraid to follow his own advice concerning his false preaching. As one night I tuned in to hear him say, "God created Hell to get even with man!"

I waited to see someone stand up and demand the scripture that says that. There is not one of course.
Never happened.
I called their church phone, always get a voice mail and no call back. I emailed over a few months time three different times, asking for the scripture. Nothing.

Discernment can cost someone their soul if they don't know how to rightly divide the word.
Yes, that W2 church is false. But you should see their parking lot. They're so full on Sunday's that people park on the grass. And they even have a school for K-to 12th grade.

I cannot imagine what it costs for tuition to that. Or what is required. Maybe a bank statement(s)?

Our church is a little over 10,000 strong, with six campuses throughout Miami-Dade, FL and one on-line campus. They get around the size thing by having many "small group's." Last year, they received about $11.5 million in donations and $12 million from the sale of some land. They spent $11 million on programs and about $3.3 on administrative expenses. Their total assets are $42.7 million ($42.2 million net) and they lowered their liabilities from $5.8 million in 2016 to $471 thousand in 2017. A great deal is spent on programs, because they really do have a great deal to offer the community (from child programs to prison ministry).

They have also just started a master’s fellowship with Wheaton College graduate school, with a 25% scholarship.

Each campus has its’ own pastor; however, the lead pastor is Rick Blackwood. He has been there for 20 years and the church since 1917. Not 100% sure, but I think he has been wearing the same outfits (usually shirt and pants) since 2003. I’ve seen his car, which is not much to talk about. Have not seen his house, but it is in my neighborhood and might actually be church property (not sure).

rtm3039

 

[Major]

That's the problem with the so called mega-churches as I see it. When more than 30 thousand people are in the seats, a minister isn't able to shepherd his or her flock on an individual level.
Licensing merchandise is another issue as I see it. Money. Yes, necessary to live in this world, but Jesus said to his Disciples when guiding them on their mission to spread the good news, leave your purses at home and let those who receive you take care of your needs.
A pastor that lives in a millions of dollar mansion, or has a family compound , and drives expensive cars, wears custom tailored suits, and appeals to his congregation to tithe so he can buy a six million dollar top of the line private jet, isn't following Jesus directives. At least as I see it.
When the congregation are either poor or middle class and the pastor is rich, that's not good.

I watched a TV pastor in Texas as I stopped my channel surfing last year. He admonished his congregation against freely handing out money to the needy. Because, he said, that person who receives that money will then be grateful to you. And that feeds the ego and pride. Instead, give that money to the church, meaning him, and the church, meaning him, will disperse it where it is needed. So that those who receive the gift will then be grateful to God.
To my knowledge, neither this pastor nor his church sustain any food kitchen, homeless shelter, or any such charitable entity and church sponsored, in his area.
But meanwhile he's morbidly obese, after preaching some years ago that if a disabled veteran, homeless mother, or the elderly don't work, STARVE!
I found that sermon on You Tube once. Then after a week all the copies were removed due to the church claiming copyright violation.

I bet.
Like this one guy who self-identifies as an Apostle. His congregation at his invitation to tithe purchased straight cash a former Catholic church campus. Gorgeous property and buildings. They took out all the stained glass art, claiming it was idolatry. Dismantled the giant pipe organ , for some reason, and now have more area to carry on their mission in the name of the first church of Jesus Christ.
This pastor regularly condemns other denominations, making it very personal. He even attacks the current sitting President and claims they're not really Christian.
Once he admonished his congregation to act as he acts in that anyone watching, or there for the first time, if they return to their original church and hear the pastor or bishop or apostle preach something not in scripture, challenge that man right then and there. WHERE IS IT IN THE BIBLE? He yelled.
His regular congregation would appear too afraid to follow his own advice concerning his false preaching. As one night I tuned in to hear him say, "God created Hell to get even with man!"

I waited to see someone stand up and demand the scripture that says that. There is not one of course.
Never happened.
I called their church phone, always get a voice mail and no call back. I emailed over a few months time three different times, asking for the scripture. Nothing.

Discernment can cost someone their soul if they don't know how to rightly divide the word.
Yes, that W2 church is false. But you should see their parking lot. They're so full on Sunday's that people park on the grass. And they even have a school for K-to 12th grade.

I cannot imagine what it costs for tuition to that. Or what is required. Maybe a bank statement(s)?

I agree with your comment. I am afraif however we are not going to be able to discuss this situation as our mods do not want any arguments......
and I am NOT argueing with you at all.

30K in a church is not a church...…….that my brother is a city!!!!!!!!!

Just so that you will know that some of us do know what the Bible says ...….God actually created hell for Satan and his demons.

Matthew 25:41 ............…
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels".

Here Jesus clearly told his disciples that GOD did NOT create Hell for humans. — instead it was created for the Satan and his Angels.

Also, there is no such thing today as an Apostle. That office no longer exists and when John died the ministry of the apostle ended.

 

[QuintessenceOfDust]

I agree with your comment. I am afraif however we are not going to be able to discuss this situation as our mods do not want any arguments......
and I am NOT argueing with you at all.

30K in a church is not a church...…….that my brother is a city!!!!!!!!!

Just so that you will know that some of us do know what the Bible says ...….God actually created hell for Satan and his demons.

Matthew 25:41 ............…
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels".

Here Jesus clearly told his disciples that GOD did NOT create Hell for humans. — instead it was created for the Satan and his Angels.

Also, there is no such thing today as an Apostle. That office no longer exists and when John died the ministry of the apostle ended.

All true.
If the parishioners of that self-identified Apostle cleaved to his teachings, after he said God created Hell to get even with man, he'd arrive at an empty church the next service. But no, instead they follow along and never do as he instructed them when hearing false teachings; confront the man that teaches falsehood.
Prayerfully one day they will wake up.

 

[QuintessenceOfDust]

Our church is a little over 10,000 strong, with six campuses throughout Miami-Dade, FL and one on-line campus. They get around the size thing by having many "small group's." Last year, they received about $11.5 million in donations and $12 million from the sale of some land. They spent $11 million on programs and about $3.3 on administrative expenses. Their total assets are $42.7 million ($42.2 million net) and they lowered their liabilities from $5.8 million in 2016 to $471 thousand in 2017. A great deal is spent on programs, because they really do have a great deal to offer the community (from child programs to prison ministry).

They have also just started a master’s fellowship with Wheaton College graduate school, with a 25% scholarship.

Each campus has its’ own pastor; however, the lead pastor is Rick Blackwood. He has been there for 20 years and the church since 1917. Not 100% sure, but I think he has been wearing the same outfits (usually shirt and pants) since 2003. I’ve seen his car, which is not much to talk about. Have not seen his house, but it is in my neighborhood and might actually be church property (not sure).

rtm3039

Your church isn't at all like what I described. Yours is a church. As the brother observed, the church I described with some 30 thousand+ members is a small city.
Though I will say God knows the falsity of the one church I'm thinking of comes out and from the mouths of the pastor and his wife when they speak at times.
When people hear that the one's attending meant to hear what is truly being said leave, I'm sure. They have the ears to hear. It is all according to God's plan. He knows who are his own and who are false. And while they may stack riches while on earth that shall avail them naught once they die.

 

[rtm3039]

Your church isn't at all like what I described. Yours is a church. As the brother observed, the church I described with some 30 thousand+ members is a small city.
Though I will say God knows the falsity of the one church I'm thinking of comes out and from the mouths of the pastor and his wife when they speak at times.
When people hear that the one's attending meant to hear what is truly being said leave, I'm sure. They have the ears to hear. It is all according to God's plan. He knows who are his own and who are false. And while they may stack riches while on earth that shall avail them naught once they die.

You know, to date, our pastor's wife has never taken the stage. She shows up for service, but she has not taken the state yet. Pastor Rick is very passionate about his faith. He is currently dealing with stage 3 colon cancer, but recovering well. I wish you could here this guy do his thing - it is impressive.

rtm3039