Should Christmas be Celebrated Or Rejected, You Decided

Well i am new here and want to discuss it cos its very relevant and timely.
When i became a christian i wondered how i was going to celebrate christmas or even if i should cos i always celebrated it anyway before I truly believed and i tell you it is not godly the way its celebrated if you dont believe.

I know people say x-mas or christ-mas and catholicism does midnight mass which i do not agree with at all. I always thought it was gory the way the catholics glorified jesus death and made a big ritual of it plus all those statues of him on the cross decaying and bleeding. This is my personal experience so please dont say im catholic bashing i have no agenda. It is just not biblical and i go by the word of God.

In the bible the date of jesus birth does not coincide with 25 december. But it is not wrong to remember jesus what he did for us by eating and drinking the lords supper, or to recall his birth by retelling the story in the gospel of luke by renacting the nativity by singing carols. This is the part I absolutely LOVE about the season.

The trees...well this is the big part of paganism and gift giving as well. This has not really anything to do with Jesus although ive read people used to recreate the original garden of eden in miracle plays and they had a paradise tree representing the tree in the garden. Somehow this got combined with christmas and some people symbolise it by saying christ is evergreen, the red symbolises his blood, the gifts representing the wise mens offerings etc. i myself think some ppl go to great lengths to justify a pagan holiday. It is not necessary. But i would say it can be fun, absolutely! The advent season the lead up to 25 th where every heart prepares him room, I always in my heart beleive it does prepare us christians to fix our minds on the second coming when he will really be with us.
Others may expect santa claus or father christmas, or some other myth, but its really just human tradition. The real saint nicolas was a generous hearted christian who loved children. So i dont see anything wrong with giving gifts to children if you are parents on that day.

The retailers take advantage of this by claiming everyone has to give a gift to everyone but that is a lie. The whole reason saint nicolas was generous was because he could afford to do so, and gave to POOR children whos parents could not afford it. Christmas has turned into a holiday only the wealthy can celebrate in style.

Everyone has to make up their own mind whether to partake or not.
I myself go to church to hear the story again and also go carolling. I send cards with nativity scenes and think and pray blessings to those far away or havent heard from all year. I have big meal with my family who are unbelievers. I do give gifts, but mostly throughout the year i dont spend up. Theres boxing day sales anyway so its crazy to spend on expensive gifts for christmas day. I dont particularly care for trees, but think its a nice decoration. Its summer here so trees are all around anyway decorated with blooms in their natural glory, i dont need fake snow etc.

Christmas is a big opportunity for evangelism. people love to hear about a saviour more than they want to hear about santa. Cos Hes real. While most people think shows over after 25 th i keep on celebrating Jesus birth death and resurrection throughout the year.

So thats my 2 cents offering!
Blessings!
 
Well I suppose if we only do those things Jesus expressly said to do, we need to:
stop using the internet.
Stop using Cell Phones
Stop using all forms of computer.
Stop watching TV.
Stop playing recorded music.
Stop using Microwave ovens.
Stop driving automobiles and bicycles.
Stop using Pianos and electric guitars and keyboards in Church.
In fact out with everything not listed in the gospels.
Know where I can get a good 4 bedroon cave and a new or used camp fire? (not lpg fueled of course)
Seriously, don't you see the difference between being told "don't" and not being told "don't"?

So do you use the internet to in rememberence of Jesus? Do you worship the internet in rememberence of Jesus?
Do you use your Cell Phone in remeberece of Jesus or worship it?
Stop using all forms of computerin remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.
Stop watching TVin remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.
Stop playing recorded music in remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.
Stop using Microwave ovensin remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.
Stop driving automobiles and bicyclesin remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.
Stop using Pianos and electric guitars and keyboards in Church in remeberece of Jesus or worship it?.


If you said Yes to any of these questions you should not be doing them.

Your childish attempt to twist what was posted is silly. It comes from your inability to find the facts for your self. Then disclaim them in a understandable way. The ranting is childish
peter
 
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LanceA

Inactive
I normally stay away from this subject but..........

It would behoove you to research the word on your own and look for validity in the assertions made within.

peter

The True Meaning Of Christ-Mass

They tell us that it is the season to be jolly. It is a time of ornaments, red and green decorations, silver bells, holly, mistletoe and colored lights. It is also a time of department store Santas calling out their universal mantra, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas." Nearly all of the realm of so-called "Christianity" join in and repeat this same greeting, "Merry Christmas!"
Although we hear these words constantly as they resonate millions of times throughout the land, almost nobody understands what they are really saying. It is the purpose of this tract to take the words, "Merry Christmas" and examine the true meaning and essence of those words.
A true Christian would want to examine everything they say, because Jesus said in Matthew 12:36-37, "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." We will now set aside all of the customs, glitter and traditions of Christmas, which were taken from pagan witchcraft and popularized by the Roman Catholic Church, and we will focus on the true meaning of the words, "Merry Christmas!"
The word "Merry" is simple to define. It unquestionably means to be happy, joyful and light-hearted. The word "merry" fits into the ambience of laughter and frivolity. This word "merry" by itself is innocent and innocuous enough, but as we will now see, it becomes heinously blasphemous when used with the word "Christmas."
Here let it be noted that most people think that the word, "Christmas" means "the birth of Christ." By definition, it means "death of Christ", and I will prove it by using the World Book Encyclopedia, the Catholic Encyclopedia, and a book entitled, The Mass In Slow Motion.
If you are an honest, sincere and discerning Christian, please read on; if not, you might as well stop right here. The World Book Encyclopedia defines "Christmas" as follows: "The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ." (1) It is interesting to note that the word "Mass", as used by the Roman Catholics, has traditionally been rejected by the so-called Protestants, such as Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and so on. The word "Mass" is strictly a Catholic word and thus, so is "Christ-Mass."
It would stand to reason, that since all of these denominations love and embrace "Christ-Mass", that December 25th is the great homecoming day, when all of the Protestants become Catholic for a day. It would seem that all of the so-called "wayward daughters" of the Romish church return to their mother, the scarlet harlot. Thus, all of the so-called Protestant churches could sing to the Pope that popular song "I'll be home for Christmas."
As previously stated, the word "Mass" in religious usage means a "death sacrifice." The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; for when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!" Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking and laughing at the suffering and bleeding Saviour, who died for our sins. He does this while parents place their little children into his waiting arms to hear his false promises of gifts that he says he will give them. Consider what you are saying when you say "Merry Christmas."
What is so amusing about our Saviour's painful death? What is so funny? Why is Santa laughing? Why are you going along with it? Your words do count and Satan knows it. Yes, the word "Mass" does mean "death sacrifice", and to cement that fact, we will consider the definition of the inventors of the religious application of the word "Mass." I am looking at page 537 of the Catholic Encyclopedia, which says, "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass." It goes on to say, "The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." (2) Please note carefully the word, "victim" of the Mass. The Latin word for victim is "Hostia" from which the word "host" is derived. The Mass, by definition of those who coined the word, is a sacrifice involving a victim. There is no other meaning for the word "Mass" or "Christ-Mass." On page 110 of a book entitled "The Mass In Slow Motion", we find the following words: "It is only with the consecration that the sacrifice of the Mass is achieved. I have represented the Mass to you, more than once, as a kind of ritual dance." (3)
In essence, the Mass is the ceremonial slaying of Jesus Christ over and over again, followed by the eating of his flesh and the drinking of his blood. The Mass is the death sacrifice, and the "Host" is the victim. This is official Roman Catholic doctrine, and "Christmas" is a word that they invented. Again, I ask, what is so merry about the pain, bleeding, suffering and death of Jesus Christ? Satan has done quite a job of getting millions of so-called "Christians" to blaspheme. What a deceiver he is.
Now you know the true meaning of the word "Christmas" or Mass of Christ. There is much more to know about this pagan holiday, and we will be glad to provide you with plenty of evidence that Jesus was not born on December 25th, and that Christmas is not only a lie, but is actually a witches' sabbat called "Yule" in clever disguise. Please contact us at the address below, and for the sake of your soul, flee from idolatry!

David J. Meyer

Acknowledgements:
01. World Book Encyclopedia, vol.3, p. 408, 1986 ed., World Book Inc., Chicago, IL
02. The Catholic Encyclopedia, R.C. Broderick, 1975 ed., Nihil Obstat, Richard J. Sklba, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, Archbishop William E. Cousins, Milwaukee, WI.
03. The Mass In Slow Motion, Ronald Knox, 1948, Sheed & Ward, Inc., New York, NY. Nihil Obstat, E.C. Messenger, Censor Deputatus. Imprimatur, E. Morrogh Bernard, Vic. Gen.
Last Trumpet Ministries International
PO Box 806
Beaver Dam, WI 53916
Maybe you should keep on practicing the stay away part
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
Trace those things back even further: Before the traditions you mentioned, trees, branches and Dec 22 were just created things, made by God. Did those few druids from one time and place in history somehow have the power to forever corrupt for everyone things that God made good?

The cross also has its roots in paganism, but if I go into a church and see one, I don't get upset because they've got this Roman symbol of torture and murder on their wall. I realize that to the people that hung it, it doesn't mean what its designers intended it to mean.


The Lord made a good a point, saying in Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. (in others word...keep your gifts) 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

The Lord already have his High Holy days written in Leviticus 23rd chapter to honor. In the scriptures its already written in Jeremiah.."Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightning’s with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish". (Jeremiah 10:1-15)
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Bro.tan

Inactive
The very word "Druid" means wise man of the oak, or "One who has knowledge of the oak." The custom of lighting a Yule log is an ancient Druid practice. A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling. Holes are drilled into the log and candies inserted. The entire log is then decoratively covered with holly and evergreens to represent the intertwining of god and goddess, or male and female elements. Hopes for fertile crops, herds, and families are invested in the Yule log image.

Consider the habit of putting up lights. The profusion of lights on house and tree at Christmas time is a carry-over of the candles and fires lit in sympathetic magic to lure back the waning sun. Today it's still an Irish custom to leave lights burning all through the house on midwinter night to honor the sun's return. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.

The mistletoe was a sacred plant in the pagan religion of the Druids in Britain. It was believed to have all sorts of miraculous qualities: the power of healing diseases, making poisons harmless, giving fertility to humans and animals, protecting from witchcraft, banning evil spirits, bringing good luck and great blessings. In fact, the mistletoe was considered so sacred that even enemies who happened to meet beneath mistletoe in the forest would lay down their arms, exchange a friendly greeting, and keep a truce until the following day. From this old custom grew the practice of suspending mistletoe over a doorway or in a room as a token of good will and peace to all comers. The kiss under the mistletoe; the token of good will and friendship; the omen of happiness and good luck and the new religious significance.

Holly has been used in Christmas tradition for almost two thousand years. It's older, pagan origins began at least as early as ancient Rome, when holly was associated with Saturn, the sun god. In Druidic and other related pagan traditions, holly leaves were placed around homes in the winter in the belief that the fairies would use it as a shelter against the cold. Early Christians in the British Isles adopted this tradition at first to avoid persecution, but holly was eventually reinterpreted with Christian symbolism. The pointy edges represent the crown of thorns which Christ wore during his crucifixion. The red berries represent Christ's blood which he shed during His torture and death.

Why can't we find the word Christmas in the Bible? Why don't we see in the Bible where Jesus, the apostles, or anyone else for that matter, celebrating his birthday? The Bible tells us to remember his death (which is the Passover); it says nothing about celebrating his birth. It doesn't even tell you when he was born.
 
I find it sadly interesting that so much nervous energy is expended in condemning Christmas and Easter as being pagan....works of the devil etc.etc.
When it comes to New Years revelry, with its drunken orgies and with no Christian significance attached, that is OK because there is no celebration of Jesus or the things of Christ. Why is that?
Why is Christmas attacked?
Why is Easter attacked?
Why is New year celebration NOT attacked?

I can think of only ONE entity that would be anti Christmas and anti Easter, while being pro New Year.
and 'Pro' is also by silent consent.
 
The Lord made a good a point, saying in I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. (in others word...keep your gifts) 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Yeah. God didn't accept the Hebrews' observances of the Torah feasts/assemblies/offerings because their neglect of justice and righteousness made those observances irrelevant. I don't really see why you're posting that here.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel...

See post 27.

A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling.

Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.

The mistletoe was a sacred plant in the pagan religion of the Druids in Britain. It was believed to have all sorts of miraculous qualities

Holly has been used in Christmas tradition for almost two thousand years. It's older, pagan origins began at least as early as ancient Rome, when holly was associated with Saturn, the sun god.

Before all that, they were just parts of God's creation, which He made good. Did pagan people somehow find the power to forever corrupt what God made good?

These things are just decorations. They don't have any meaning anymore beyond that. Their origins don't matter, except that originally, God made them all good.
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
Yeah. God didn't accept the Hebrews' observances of the Torah feasts/assemblies/offerings because their neglect of justice and righteousness made those observances irrelevant. I don't really see why you're posting that here.



See post 27.









Before all that, they were just parts of God's creation, which He made good. Did pagan people somehow find the power to forever corrupt what God made good?

These things are just decorations. They don't have any meaning anymore beyond that. Their origins don't matter, except that originally, God made them all good.


This world loves to justify foolishness and things that are not of God. In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge. Those that are of the world, do the things that are of the world, the those things the world will do, Jesus do not, nor taught the people to do such things, like... Christmas, easter, lent, ash wednesday, attending Sunday church, Good Friday, etc.. Now, Jesus says in John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
 
In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 14:7Go from the presence of a foolishman, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

So we should go away from you, gotcha. Thank you for reminding us of that scripture.

Seriously though, if you do not want to celebrate Christmas or Easter, then don't. If we decide to, then we will. It is for each Christian to decide and is the essence of Christian liberty.

You are ascribing sin to what is not sin, as has been said throughout this thread in different ways. Scripture has been shown to you that speaks of what I mentioned above. I don't remember the exact scripture and I am on my phone, so is a bit more difficult to find. However it talks of one man holding one day in esteem over others and sabbath days and festivals. That alone shoes you that we have a choose to celebrate or not. That is Christian liberty and is not sin.
 
Rom 14:5. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
 
This world loves to justify foolishness and things that are not of God.

You know, it's interesting, when gentiles started becoming disciples of Christ, you don't see the church condemning their ways that aren't sin as "of the world." *** "Of the world" means something that is sin, not something that wasn't given specifically and directly by God in a statement in scripture. Like, Jesus didn't wear a top hat or tell us to wear a top hat, but it's not like it's "of the world" to wear a top hat... it may a crime of fashion, but not a sin:) Jesus didn't tell us to give presents to eachother, therefore giving presents to eachother is SIN? That doesn't make any sense to me. Jesus didn't tell us to drink coffee, wear glasses, eat with a fork, paint our walls blue, ride bicycles, brush our teeth, or use electricity. He didn't tell us to use atomic power, which was once used for war and devestation, but the scriptures teach us that God uses even that which was once intended for evil to do His good work: Genesis 50:20. Why should something like Christmas be any different than Joseph's brothers' plan to do evil against him, that we should declare God unable to use it for His good work?

If secular people in my community gather together at Christmas to sing songs about how Jesus came to save the world, does it make ANY sense at all to on that occasion, for me to sit at home with my arms crossed feeling cranky about how "Jesus never told us to celebrate His birth"? Or does it make more sense to show up, with a felt reindeer antler hat and wrapped in a string of lights, and spark up a discussion with someone to explain to them the significance of what they're singing about? Which one of those actions most looks like doing God's good work?

Joseph's brothers' plan to sell him into slavery was not "Of God." But the way God used that evil plan to do good was "Of God." Maybe next Christmas, you can take a break from universally declaring it "sin," and simply observe some of the ways that God has seen fit to use it for His good work.




*** (But you do see Jesus asking the Jewish leaders to stop condemning things that aren't sin...)
 
You forgot to remind us that Jesus never used the Internet. Are we all sinning by using it? :eek: :whistle: :(
As I understand it the JWs don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays.................their loss :cool:
In any event I see all this pseudo piety as straining at gnats and swallowing camels.
But I do have a serious ?? for Bro.tan. Reading your profile, I get the impression that you are forsaking the gathering together in fellowship with other believers. Is this because of a health issue, or shouldn't I ask?
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
So we should go away from you, gotcha. Thank you for reminding us of that scripture.

Seriously though, if you do not want to celebrate Christmas or Easter, then don't. If we decide to, then we will. It is for each Christian to decide and is the essence of Christian liberty.

You are ascribing sin to what is not sin, as has been said throughout this thread in different ways. Scripture has been shown to you that speaks of what I mentioned above. I don't remember the exact scripture and I am on my phone, so is a bit more difficult to find. However it talks of one man holding one day in esteem over others and sabbath days and festivals. That alone shoes you that we have a choose to celebrate or not. That is Christian liberty and is not sin.

In the scriptures its written in Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Christmas and Easter is Pagan, Lets get some understanding... Easter is not a Christian name. It is Chaldean (Babylonian) in origin - the name Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven. The name Astarte, as found on the Assyrian monuments by the noted archeologist Layard, was the name Ishtar. The worship of Bel and Astarte was introduced very early into Britain, along with the Druids, "the priests of the groves," the high places where the pagans worshipped the idols of Baal. In the Almanac of the 1800's, May 1st is called Beltane, from the pagan god, Bel. The titles Bel and Molech both belong to the same god.

We must remember that Semiramis (also known as Ishtar) of Babylon, the wife of Nimrod and mother of Tammuz, was the same goddess worshiped throughout the world under various names, such as the Egyptian fertility god, Artemis, the Roman goddess of licentiousness, Venus, the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite, and the Ephesian, many-breasted fertility god, Diana, as well as many others.


Again in the scriptures in Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

The Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born. However, we know that the angels announced the birth of Christ to the Bethlehem shepherds in the open fields who were tending their flocks by night.. This fact certainly implies that the birth of Jesus could NOT have been on the 25th of December. "The cold of the night in Palestine between December and February is very piercing, and it was not customary for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October." Hislop, A., The Two Babylons, Loiseaux Brothers, Neptune, N.J. pg 91.
World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ.

This called for the celebration of special festivals of thanksgiving and encouragement to the waning sun. When at the winter solstice in late December, the days began to lengthen once again, there was great festivity lasting into the first part of January. The reason was that the declining sun---the light of the world--had been reborn and began to gain in strength. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice ". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra (the Persian's Sun God) celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun).


Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Yeah...Pay Attention people what being said here...In Daniel 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.
 

Bro.tan

Inactive
You know, it's interesting, when gentiles started becoming disciples of Christ, you don't see the church condemning their ways that aren't sin as "of the world." *** "Of the world" means something that is sin, not something that wasn't given specifically and directly by God in a statement in scripture. Like, Jesus didn't wear a top hat or tell us to wear a top hat, but it's not like it's "of the world" to wear a top hat... it may a crime of fashion, but not a sin:) Jesus didn't tell us to give presents to eachother, therefore giving presents to eachother is SIN? That doesn't make any sense to me. Jesus didn't tell us to drink coffee, wear glasses, eat with a fork, paint our walls blue, ride bicycles, brush our teeth, or use electricity. He didn't tell us to use atomic power, which was once used for war and devestation, but the scriptures teach us that God uses even that which was once intended for evil to do His good work: Genesis 50:20. Why should something like Christmas be any different than Joseph's brothers' plan to do evil against him, that we should declare God unable to use it for His good work?

If secular people in my community gather together at Christmas to sing songs about how Jesus came to save the world, does it make ANY sense at all to on that occasion, for me to sit at home with my arms crossed feeling cranky about how "Jesus never told us to celebrate His birth"? Or does it make more sense to show up, with a felt reindeer antler hat and wrapped in a string of lights, and spark up a discussion with someone to explain to them the significance of what they're singing about? Which one of those actions most looks like doing God's good work?

Joseph's brothers' plan to sell him into slavery was not "Of God." But the way God used that evil plan to do good was "Of God." Maybe next Christmas, you can take a break from universally declaring it "sin," and simply observe some of the ways that God has seen fit to use it for His good work.




*** (But you do see Jesus asking the Jewish leaders to stop condemning things that aren't sin...)

You know, it's interesting, when gentiles started becoming disciples of Christ, you don't see the church condemning their ways that aren't sin as "of the world." *** "Of the world" means something that is sin, not something that wasn't given specifically and directly by God in a statement in scripture. Like, Jesus didn't wear a top hat or tell us to wear a top hat, but it's not like it's "of the world" to wear a top hat... it may a crime of fashion, but not a sin:) Jesus didn't tell us to give presents to eachother, therefore giving presents to eachother is SIN? That doesn't make any sense to me. Jesus didn't tell us to drink coffee, wear glasses, eat with a fork, paint our walls blue, ride bicycles, brush our teeth, or use electricity. He didn't tell us to use atomic power, which was once used for war and devestation, but the scriptures teach us that God uses even that which was once intended for evil to do His good work: Genesis 50:20. Why should something like Christmas be any different than Joseph's brothers' plan to do evil against him, that we should declare God unable to use it for His good work?

If secular people in my community gather together at Christmas to sing songs about how Jesus came to save the world, does it make ANY sense at all to on that occasion, for me to sit at home with my arms crossed feeling cranky about how "Jesus never told us to celebrate His birth"? Or does it make more sense to show up, with a felt reindeer antler hat and wrapped in a string of lights, and spark up a discussion with someone to explain to them the significance of what they're singing about? Which one of those actions most looks like doing God's good work?

Joseph's brothers' plan to sell him into slavery was not "Of God." But the way God used that evil plan to do good was "Of God." Maybe next Christmas, you can take a break from universally declaring it "sin," and simply observe some of the ways that God has seen fit to use it for His good work.




*** (But you do see Jesus asking the Jewish leaders to stop condemning things that aren't sin...)

In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

In the scriptures its written in Judges 2:12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.

Do some homework and put forth some knowledge upon thyself, and you see those other Gods are the same Gods as today...Christmas and Easter, just with new names. Jeremiah 25:6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. When Jesus makes his second coming.....Who do you think hes coming for????? Jeremiah 44:5 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods. Last book of the Bible...This is talking about the kingdom at this time in Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
Ohh my! I saw some pagans eating lamb the other day. So lamb must be pagan food, ...... I'd better not eat anymore lamb .
 
It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

That's exactly what I'm telling you, bro. What God has made good, and has seen fit to use for His good work, we have no business calling sin.

Going back to the example of Joseph:
Genesis 50:20

20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

I've done my homework. I've read the history. Maybe you can trace the history of the use of God's creation for pagan practices. But I've also done this homework and read this history: Genesis 1. God declared his creation good, man. That's of God. Believing that created things are anything other than created things? That is of man. Who took branch cuttings, and logs, and mistletoe and declared them to be ways to worship false gods? Was it God or man who did that? And will we now follow the teachings of men and believe their declaration, or should we instead follow the teaching of God, who called his creation good?

Maybe at one time, temporarily, people tried to use God's creation to "think evil against Him," but now, "God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." I challenge you next Christmas to go to where God's work is being done on Christmas, and simply observe the ways the Spirit has seen fit to use it for God's good work. I don't know about you, but I am extremely uncomfortable taking something that the Spirit has obviously chosen for "good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive," and label it "sin" because men once planned it for evil.
 
It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
You have a scripture to share that explicitly states that Christmas and Easter are sin in the sight of God?
I see you have posted Scripture, but nothing that covers Christian worship being sin, and as you say it doesn't matter what you think, it is what God says................waiting, waiting, waiting.
 
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