I can't imagine why Christ wouldn't want us to celebrate His birthday. It's a special time in adoration of Him.
Should Christmas It Be Celebrated Or Rejected? You Decide!
- Thread starter Bro.tan
- Start date
I'll be sure to celebrate your birthday on June 20th
But yeah I have no problem celebrating Jesus's birth.. But its not his birthday.. Its more like Christ's birth remembrance day because we have no tradition as to when he was actually born. I think it kind of strange that there is an organization that swears it knows the very manger that Jesus was born at, and preserved it to this day, yet everyone can agree that he was not born on the winter solstice (well everyone that's considered the issue I should say).
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I'll be sure to celebrate your birthday on June 20th
But yeah I have no problem celebrating Jesus's birth.. But its not his birthday.. Its more like Christ's birth remembrance day because we have no tradition as to when he was actually born. I think it kind of strange that there is an organization that swears it knows the very manger that Jesus was born at, and preserved it to this day, yet everyone can agree that he was not born on the winter solstice (well everyone that's considered the issue I should say).
There are multiple ideas of when Christ was really born, and most don't point to Dec 25th, but this doesn't mean his birth shouldn't be celebrated.
In fact, it's funny that you said you'd celebrate my birthday on June 20th--my birthday is actually celebrated on June 25th (my half-birthday) as it has been a tradition in my family ever since I was 3.
Despite the 25th of Dec most likely not actually being the date, His birth should be celebrated and recognized. His birth is the most precious of all in fact.
Its kind of like the Sabbath.. everyone who's looked at the issue knows that the Sabbath is not the first day of the week. But we meet at church that day because of tradition. I don't think it angers God, at least I hope it doesn't, at least I am not convicted on this point. I'd rather worship on that day. But in reality I try to worship everyday. Its just a meeting time. Ah well I'm rambling again...
Bro.tan
Inactive
Paul is saying exactly what I'm doing, building the weak, by knowledge. Understanding that eating to idols profit nothing, and having the knowledge to know that their is one faith, one God, one Jesus Christ and neither have any thing to do with Christmas, let a lone salvation. Some of us in life go years in life and never know the truth about such paganism. It makes a different to some people to know the truth.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Myths Concerning Jesus
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the entire world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn". (St. Luke 2:1-7)
"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh". (St. Matthew 2:1-11)
The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.
Let's look at some of the absurd things applied to the day that man has set for the birthday of the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, our Savior. Santa Clause, Ole Saint Nick, that jolly old fat man that lives in the North Pole, runs a workshop with Elves (little people) and ride on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. He is reported to deliver gifts to all good children around the world on Christmas, beginning at midnight and being done before morning. Entering houses by landing his sleigh on the rooftops and descending down the chimney with his bag of toys on his back. Once in the house, he puts the toys around the Christmas tree, eats the cookies and drinks the milk that is left for him before going to the next house. Sometimes taking time to get a kiss from mommy. Well, according to history, Saint Nicholas, who they portray Santa Clause, or Ole Saint Nick after, was a 4th century Bishop of Myra, which is located in Asia Minor , on the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.
A long way away from the North Pole! Also, according to Webster student dictionary, the definition for Nick, "The Devil" usually Old Nick. Now, is it possible to travel around the world in less than 24 hours stopping at every house? Reindeers don't fly; Christmas takes place in winter, so there's fire in the fireplaces to keep the house warm. What do you think would happen to a fat man trying to come down a chimney with a bag of toys on his back with a fire in the fireplace? If it's suppose to be Jesus birthday; why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him? A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him. And what do a decorated tree, mistletoe, Yule logs, fire and lights have to do with Jesus?
The modern Christmas tree can easily be traced back to seventeenth century Germany; branches of holly and mistletoe were likewise displayed. Not only did these plants remain green through the winter months, but they also bore fruit at that time, thus symbolizing life in an otherwise dead season.
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the entire world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn". (St. Luke 2:1-7)
"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh". (St. Matthew 2:1-11)
The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.
Let's look at some of the absurd things applied to the day that man has set for the birthday of the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, our Savior. Santa Clause, Ole Saint Nick, that jolly old fat man that lives in the North Pole, runs a workshop with Elves (little people) and ride on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. He is reported to deliver gifts to all good children around the world on Christmas, beginning at midnight and being done before morning. Entering houses by landing his sleigh on the rooftops and descending down the chimney with his bag of toys on his back. Once in the house, he puts the toys around the Christmas tree, eats the cookies and drinks the milk that is left for him before going to the next house. Sometimes taking time to get a kiss from mommy. Well, according to history, Saint Nicholas, who they portray Santa Clause, or Ole Saint Nick after, was a 4th century Bishop of Myra, which is located in Asia Minor , on the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.
A long way away from the North Pole! Also, according to Webster student dictionary, the definition for Nick, "The Devil" usually Old Nick. Now, is it possible to travel around the world in less than 24 hours stopping at every house? Reindeers don't fly; Christmas takes place in winter, so there's fire in the fireplaces to keep the house warm. What do you think would happen to a fat man trying to come down a chimney with a bag of toys on his back with a fire in the fireplace? If it's suppose to be Jesus birthday; why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him? A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him. And what do a decorated tree, mistletoe, Yule logs, fire and lights have to do with Jesus?
The modern Christmas tree can easily be traced back to seventeenth century Germany; branches of holly and mistletoe were likewise displayed. Not only did these plants remain green through the winter months, but they also bore fruit at that time, thus symbolizing life in an otherwise dead season.
If you feel convicted to abstain from Christmas, then by all means abstain. There are certainly plenty of reasons to ignore the holiday. There are connections that are bad, and there are connections that are good. There are lots of myths that probably shouldn't be propagated.
However, no matter how much I examine this issue, I'm left with one thing that I just cannot ignore. When I meet people, and I look around, I find a lot of love out there during this time of year. There is a LOT of good tidings and great joy. There are a LOT of people thinking not only about Christ, but about others that spend the rest of the year looking the other way. The food banks are filled to overflowing, and the homeless shelters have more help than they could ever possibly use. In the end, I see people showing love to others and worshiping God. That is fulfilling God's will. Anytime people show love for one another, it is victory. Yes, there is bad things, but those happen year round. The day itself is mostly nonsense, but the entire month going from a time of being thankful the the bountiful blessings and spending time with family and loved ones is remarkable. To abandon that is to hand yet another thing that has been set aside for God. It is often the only time families and people think about the less fortunate. It is often the only time they hear the story of our Savior. Either we keep it as a Christian Holiday, or we give it BACK to the Pagans. Why would anyone want to give something to Satan that is nearly universally seen as a Christian Holy day?
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what day of the year Jesus was born. How could that possibly have any meaning at all? It doesn't matter that nearly every tradition has a link to Paganism. Of course they does. That was intentional. It was taking something wicked and using it for good. Why should such a thing only work the other way? Why is it that Christians always have to give up their traditions? Sanctify the day, sanctify the entire season and dedicate it back to Christ. As far as I'm concerned, THAT is what Christmas is about. It is taking a pagan tradition, cleansing it, and giving it back to God.
Prior to Constantine, people used to give presents to the church to distribute to the poor. It was a minor holiday, barely even worth mentioning. The Pagans celebrated Saturnalie, which was mostly marked by lots of drinking and eating. Christianity absorbed that by enlarging Christmas. It is only with the withdrawal of Christian support for the holiday that the paganism began to take back control of the season. Why would we allow that? Why give it all up after nearly wiping out all traces of the pagan roots?
Don't fill the day with lies. Don't fill the season with lies. But don't give the Devil ground that he doesn't deserve.
However, no matter how much I examine this issue, I'm left with one thing that I just cannot ignore. When I meet people, and I look around, I find a lot of love out there during this time of year. There is a LOT of good tidings and great joy. There are a LOT of people thinking not only about Christ, but about others that spend the rest of the year looking the other way. The food banks are filled to overflowing, and the homeless shelters have more help than they could ever possibly use. In the end, I see people showing love to others and worshiping God. That is fulfilling God's will. Anytime people show love for one another, it is victory. Yes, there is bad things, but those happen year round. The day itself is mostly nonsense, but the entire month going from a time of being thankful the the bountiful blessings and spending time with family and loved ones is remarkable. To abandon that is to hand yet another thing that has been set aside for God. It is often the only time families and people think about the less fortunate. It is often the only time they hear the story of our Savior. Either we keep it as a Christian Holiday, or we give it BACK to the Pagans. Why would anyone want to give something to Satan that is nearly universally seen as a Christian Holy day?
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what day of the year Jesus was born. How could that possibly have any meaning at all? It doesn't matter that nearly every tradition has a link to Paganism. Of course they does. That was intentional. It was taking something wicked and using it for good. Why should such a thing only work the other way? Why is it that Christians always have to give up their traditions? Sanctify the day, sanctify the entire season and dedicate it back to Christ. As far as I'm concerned, THAT is what Christmas is about. It is taking a pagan tradition, cleansing it, and giving it back to God.
Prior to Constantine, people used to give presents to the church to distribute to the poor. It was a minor holiday, barely even worth mentioning. The Pagans celebrated Saturnalie, which was mostly marked by lots of drinking and eating. Christianity absorbed that by enlarging Christmas. It is only with the withdrawal of Christian support for the holiday that the paganism began to take back control of the season. Why would we allow that? Why give it all up after nearly wiping out all traces of the pagan roots?
Don't fill the day with lies. Don't fill the season with lies. But don't give the Devil ground that he doesn't deserve.
The tradition began in the first century, recognizing the resurrection as a new Sabbath. As Christians, the idea is that we celebrate the Resurrection of Christ rather than the Creation of the world. Jewish tradition focuses more on Creation, which is why they also have Rash Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Chanukah has next to nothing to do with Christmas, beyond being a miracle during the Maccabean era that led up to the birth of the Messiah.
When I lived in Canada, I did ministry with first nations people, especially Ojibwe and Cree. Drumming, in their culture, was used to make a connection to the spiritual world. Because of this, some people, once they'd become Christians, rejected the practice of drumming altogether, because they saw drumming as being linked to those spiritual practices. Others knew that a drum was just a drum. As one man put it to me, "I drum for Jesus now." Whether or not a Christian was permitted to use drums was a subject of debate, and contention.
From what Paul writes in 1 Cor 8, I would agree, we know that a drum is just a drum. "However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol;" Those with a "weak conscience" still maintain the connection between the drum and their old spiritual practices. Paul's example seems to be saying that Christians should be willing to give up drumming because of love, for the sake of those with a weak conscience among them, to not be a stumbling block to them.
So to return to the subject of Christmas, I know that Christmas is not inherently idol worship, just as eating meat sacrificed to idols was not inherently idol worship, and drumming is not inherently idol worship. But you know Christmas is idol worship. If I celebrate Christmas, will it tempt you to betray your conscience? If so, I won't mention it again.
However, I urge you to consider that what you're doing is quite different from what Paul was doing. He was not advocating that Christians give up eating meat sacrificed to idols because of the meat's connection to idolatry, he was showing Christians that lovingly supporting those among them with weak consciences is more important than exercising their liberty to eat meat sacrificed to idols. Further, if it's only a problem for those with "consciousness of the idol," what can possibly be gained through promoting consciousness of the idol?
But even for those few modern Christians who will see Christmas as being inherently connected with idol worship, I hope they can still see that at Christmas we should serve others as we would any time of the year, which is what I wrote about in post #7 (how would you respond to that post, btw?).
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A little thought, how many other Pagan and occult rituals do you carry out without knowing that they are? A tree is just a tree, a tree with decorations on it is just that, its what you use it for that counts.
Did you know that taking communion is nothing new and was a practice carried out thousands of years before Christ and Last Supper? Does this mean that taking communion is in fact taking part in an occult ceremony?
OF COURSE NOT!!
Therefore in the same context, putting up trees and decorating them at Christmas is not part of some wicked evil satan worshiping exercise, its the motive behind it.
Did you know that taking communion is nothing new and was a practice carried out thousands of years before Christ and Last Supper? Does this mean that taking communion is in fact taking part in an occult ceremony?
OF COURSE NOT!!
Therefore in the same context, putting up trees and decorating them at Christmas is not part of some wicked evil satan worshiping exercise, its the motive behind it.
MichaelH
Inactive
The Wisdom of God wins. Excellent question Agricola. One question settles the whole thing. How many Satanic projects are we supporting? If it just be one, then there would be absolutely no room to mention someones lighted tree they set up for their family. We are not to be hypocrites or judges when we do the same things. I believe my Brothers and Sisters are using Christmas for non nefarious purposes. If not then their Father in Heaven said that anything we be not perfected minded about, He is faithful to bring that to our attention. (Php 3:15)
Should Easter be celebrated if there are pagan ties to that holiday?
MichaelH
Inactive
My internet provider Sudden-link supports accounts that have set up Porn sites. The Bible is pretty clear about guarding your heart and getting wrapped up in things that give thoughts contrary to the Word. I think I have pretty clear scriptural evidence in Scripture that porn sites are not good.
The sad thing is, every time I pay my internet bill, I inadvertently give more power to support Porn and all the other bad stuff my internet provider gives services for.
So the question is, can I use my provider's service and still be in compliance with the Word of God and be pleasing to my Father?
I can use the service without getting tied up in the bad things that the service provides, though I support the bad also through payments.
Easter:
The goddess of fertility!!! bunnies and eggs and little chickens.
Seriously, am I hiding eggs for the kids to find in support of some fertility goddess that is not even real? Not any more than me paying my internet bill and supporting porn.
What would Jesus say?
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
(Mat 15:2-3)
Reading the posts/replies, precisely why I avoid churches where they believe Christmas should not be celebrated…..
It is kind legalistic that it usually miss which is more important*…… the reasons they see is the date computations or political reasons, trees and santa, and not the Spirit of Christmas....
*That is: what reasons they see not to do things....
In the same manner what reasons they see what to do things....
It is kind legalistic that it usually miss which is more important*…… the reasons they see is the date computations or political reasons, trees and santa, and not the Spirit of Christmas....
*That is: what reasons they see not to do things....
In the same manner what reasons they see what to do things....
Bro.tan
Inactive
Interesting question, I think it makes a different if paganism was not involved in, Easter or Christmas.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Many of our present Christmas traditions and symbols have historical roots in ancient paganistic rites related to Celtic, Druid, Roman or Nordic. Druid ceremonies were based on an eight-fold year. Four were solar and the other four were lunar. The Yule celebration is Dec. 22 or Winter Solstice. Yule is one of the eight festival days of the pagans. The Roman and Nordic invaders of Ireland had an influence on the prominence and significance of Yule. Yule, in both old Roman paganism and in Norse tradition, was the start of the New Year. Yule comes from a Nordic word meaning "wheel." The Christmas wreath is a symbol of the wheel of the year. Yule altars throughout paganism show the influence of Ireland and the Druids with their holly, pine and mistletoe coverings. Yule rituals enact birthing rites, ask for the sun god's return, and beseech that the wheel of the year be turned again.
The very word "Druid" means wise man of the oak, or "One who has knowledge of the oak." The custom of lighting a Yule log is an ancient Druid practice. A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling. Holes are drilled into the log and candies inserted. The entire log is then decoratively covered with holly and evergreens to represent the intertwining of god and goddess, or male and female elements. Hopes for fertile crops, herds, and families are invested in the Yule log image.
Consider the habit of putting up lights. The profusion of lights on house and tree at Christmas time is a carry-over of the candles and fires lit in sympathetic magic to lure back the waning sun. Today it's still an Irish custom to leave lights burning all through the house on midwinter night to honor the sun's return. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.
The mistletoe was a sacred plant in the pagan religion of the Druids in Britain. It was believed to have all sorts of miraculous qualities: the power of healing diseases, making poisons harmless, giving fertility to humans and animals, protecting from witchcraft, banning evil spirits, bringing good luck and great blessings. In fact, the mistletoe was considered so sacred that even enemies who happened to meet beneath mistletoe in the forest would lay down their arms, exchange a friendly greeting, and keep a truce until the following day. From this old custom grew the practice of suspending mistletoe over a doorway or in a room as a token of good will and peace to all comers. The kiss under the mistletoe; the token of good will and friendship; the omen of happiness and good luck and the new religious significance.
The very word "Druid" means wise man of the oak, or "One who has knowledge of the oak." The custom of lighting a Yule log is an ancient Druid practice. A log, usually of the god-related oak tree, is carved into a small section which is brought into a dwelling. Holes are drilled into the log and candies inserted. The entire log is then decoratively covered with holly and evergreens to represent the intertwining of god and goddess, or male and female elements. Hopes for fertile crops, herds, and families are invested in the Yule log image.
Consider the habit of putting up lights. The profusion of lights on house and tree at Christmas time is a carry-over of the candles and fires lit in sympathetic magic to lure back the waning sun. Today it's still an Irish custom to leave lights burning all through the house on midwinter night to honor the sun's return. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter solstice festival of the pagans.
The mistletoe was a sacred plant in the pagan religion of the Druids in Britain. It was believed to have all sorts of miraculous qualities: the power of healing diseases, making poisons harmless, giving fertility to humans and animals, protecting from witchcraft, banning evil spirits, bringing good luck and great blessings. In fact, the mistletoe was considered so sacred that even enemies who happened to meet beneath mistletoe in the forest would lay down their arms, exchange a friendly greeting, and keep a truce until the following day. From this old custom grew the practice of suspending mistletoe over a doorway or in a room as a token of good will and peace to all comers. The kiss under the mistletoe; the token of good will and friendship; the omen of happiness and good luck and the new religious significance.