THE HOLY SPIRIT teaches
Should Pastors Be Educated In Christian Theology??
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
I like my signature I found today by MLJ, and think it's appropriate to the topic at hand.
Hello Major;
At some point I had to jump in. After reading the posts to this topic there are varying instances when a servant is called to be a Pastor.
I attended the same seminary for 15 years graduating 3 times. BibleLover shared that his seminary experience provided the tools to equip him to be a teacher. I agree with him. But the study was deep, I had to re-read the text to "get it" and felt confined to the seminary library, my desk and book. But each time I completed the homework, test or exam I moved on to the next class feeling a little increased knowledge but so much more to learn.
I also know of Pastors who didn't attend seminary but are highly gifted to preach, always receive a Word from God and have the gift of people skills, or just loving people.
There are also Pastors I knew who didn't attend seminary so at some point they were limited and didn't know what to preach or teach their congregation. So they would preach a past sermon or the same theme. The congregation can pick up on these shortfalls of the Pastor and will remember.
During the early years of our church plant I didn't receive a salary the first 3 1/2 years so I worked a fulltime job and served in the Church (almost fulltime after work and all weekend.) My day off was Mondays. Just like forgiven, I was bi-vocational. By 2015 I became full-time in the Church.
There are many Pastors who are "led" to serve in the Church, for example, a man of God may feel like he wants to be a Pastor for personal reasons which is not a true "calling." It can take years before God will reveal His servant's pastoral ministry.
But it's always been my argument that all Pastors should be "called" by God, "prompted" by the Holy Spirit and "anointed" with the disposition of Jesus, for example, when God appoints a Moses, or Paul, or the 12 disciples, and other leaders in the Bible to lead God's people to Christ under undesirable or extremely challenging conditions, God knows His servant and who will step up to take on this noble task.
There exist seminaries who offer courses in finance, marketing and administration management but this has watered down the pre-requisites of hard core Biblical Theology, Systematic Theology, Hermeneutics, Church History, Homiletics, Pastoral Counseling, Preaching Theory, etc...
Major and Musicmaster are in my discernment Systematic Theologians.
A Pastor is not a "career" choice, or a stepping stone to the next level, or changing Churches every 3-5 years for personal gain. In these times many Pastors who felt called end up quitting because of people problems, or fired by the congregation and end up getting completely out of the ministry and taking on different work.
Sad, but in these times we have a shortage of Pastors on all four corners of the earth, especially in these United States.
Like Major, I'm a Pastor Emeritus since a younger Pastor succeeded me in January 2022. Today I'm serving in a ministry in the SF Bay Area where Senior Pastors guide younger Pastors, kind of a Paul to Timothy mentoring.
When I ended my career in accounting after 24 years I never was fulfilled. When I was ordained as a Pastor the ministry always remained tough and can be lonely; but at the end of the day I always loved what I do, serving people.
God bless you, Major, and thank you for allowing me to share.
Hello crossnote, I have to ask. How does your signature fit in this topic, lol! and pray tell, what is MLJ? You know I'm bad at acronyms.
"I spend half my time telling Christians to study doctrine and the other half telling them that doctrine is not enough." -Martyn Lloyd Jones = MLJ
bobinfaith, in the case of pastors, many enter the ministry seeing pastorship as a vocation, a family tradition, a challenge, etc., without ever being born again; in the same way, some Christians can see the Christian walk as having all their doctrinal ducks in a row while ignoring the indwelling Spirit.
yes and some might be saved educated no anointing. i am for a good education but NOT everyone can afford it.. that is facts.. if a man is Truly called of God, the Holy Ghost will teach him. after all He is the true preacher. some use notes and does a great Job..i make a few notes to try keep from chasing rabbits . lots times i get off my notes. its the anointing that destroys the yoke. not man not education
Hello crossnote and forgiven;
I agree with both of you and your points. Some are called and some are not. These are varying instances when a Pastor serves in the Church, even the ones who were never born again, saved including the anointing.
You both just reminded me. A Pastor friend of mine from the mid 1990s was Jewish and he converted to Christianity, attended Rhema Bible Training College. He planted a Pentecostal Church under the doctrine of Kenneth Hagin Ministries.
He was a powerful speaker, preached fire and brimstone to encourage repentance. He was on his way with his new Church and congregation. My wife and I attended for 3 months.
Unfortunately, his personal marriage broke down and his kids left him. The Church dwindled and eventually closed. He was so devastated that he went to Jerusalem and while in his hotel room broke down and wept. When he came back to the Bay Area he met with me for coffee. He asked himself, "now what am I going to do?" He ended up starting his own business and met his future wife. They didn't live together until they got married but moved on in a new direction without ever getting involved in ministry again.
God bless you, brothers.
ministry work can be tough just about the time. you think things will level out and progress . life has a huge curve ball that is thrown your way. some pastor do great in the churches they are at. others do not many things i dont understand. this i know no amount of education will prepare you for the big curve ball. Education is great i enjoy DR. David Jeremiah , Adrian Rogers Jay Vernon McGee and Charles Stanley. these are all men who stood the test of time.
so preachers are so educated with degrees they dont know how to communicate . Alan Jackson a country singer had a hit song here in the real world. that is exactly what needs to be preached. Demas left paul and went and loved the present world. just to be honest some just dont get it.
i told a pastor i know in text if there is not a great awakening soon. we aint seen NOTHING YET.
Much of this discussion has concerned pastors as preachers. We should all be preachers of the gospel in the world wherever God placed us. Even there, although formal seminary training is not the point, having a grasp on everyday theology and putting Biblical principles in action is foundational.
But pastors are called to do much more than that. They are often called upon to counsel individuals and manage church 'business', even though they may rely on others to keep the books, etc. They are to be shepherds of the flock (and an unruly flock we can be).
I have never attended seminary, but I would be surprised if a good seminary does not provide (and require) training in counseling and church management.
As far as preaching goes, there are some very gifted lay preachers who I have been blessed to hear, but their ability to prepare and preach a message is not all a pastor is called to do.
But pastors are called to do much more than that. They are often called upon to counsel individuals and manage church 'business', even though they may rely on others to keep the books, etc. They are to be shepherds of the flock (and an unruly flock we can be).
I have never attended seminary, but I would be surprised if a good seminary does not provide (and require) training in counseling and church management.
As far as preaching goes, there are some very gifted lay preachers who I have been blessed to hear, but their ability to prepare and preach a message is not all a pastor is called to do.
Amen!
True fact: the pastor of 1st Baptist Church in Deland Fl. in 1990, from the pulpit, confessed to his church that he got saved from preaching his own sermon. He had a DR. degree, had pastored there for 10years and admitted that he was not born again!
You are correct. Liberty and DTS both teach the pastor how to manage people and the church. Business classes are taught as well as phycology.
Before going into the ministry, I had many years in retail business. It taught me business and people skills and without it, i do not think I would have been successful as a Pastor.
Yes sir. I have seen the same thing!
Robert, I think that you will agree with this statement. ANYONE can preach a sermon! ANYONE can stand up and yell for an hour and say nothing!
But what did that man actually say? And what will he say next Sunday. Next month?
Allow now me to give the perfect example. As you know I am a College football fanatic! My teams of choice are FSU and ALABAMA. Now this example has nothing to do with who I root for.
Now.......ANYONE could have coached the FSU teams from 1987 to 2000. I, YOU, Biden, ANYONE could have filled in for Coach Bowden and wone a game. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU DO THE NEXT WEEK OR THE NEXT YEAR??????
Real facts tell us that The FSU Seminoles achieved three undefeated seasons in straight years14 years....a record.
They finished ranked in the top four of the AP Poll for 14 straight years. A NCAA record.
They completed 41 straight winning seasons from 1977 through 2017;
From 2012 through 2014, the team won 29 consecutive games.
They held the twelfth-longest winning streak in college football.
They tied for the longest winning streak in ACC history; from 1992 through 1995.
They also won 30 consecutive conference games.
They also won 3 National titles.
Now what you may not have known. Coach Bowden was a personal friend of mine! We had several visits together. We had lunch and even went to his church in Tallahassee where he was a deacon.
Second thing to know. He was as dedicated a Christian southern gentleman as ever has lived. He told those young men's mothers when he visited them that HE would make sure that their sons went to church every Sunday with him.
He came to our church in 2004 and PREACHED to 1000 young high school men. On that Sunday afternoon.....200 of those men came to Christ!!!!! Now.....when he came, HE DID NOT CHARGE ONE SINGLE DIME AND DID NOT ASK FOR A LOVE OFFERING.
I MADE him accept a check to pay for his plane fare!
Now why I am saying this???? What purpose is there in it. EASY! What do YOU do tomorrow, next week, next year!
It happened because Coach Bowden WORKED and WORKED and WORKED.
He visited young men's mamas.
He ate with their families.
He prayed with their families.
He worked 15 hours a day training young men on how to live and act and play a child's game that was wrapped around living life.
HE WAS AN EDUCATED MAN. He was an anointed man!
What is the point. Again..........ANYONE could have taken his place for a game or two and won! But what about tomorrow!
Pastors who are not educated, and rely sole on the "anointing" of God will and can do well for a day or two, but what about next year??????
Robert.......I know you and you know me. I did exactly what we are discussing. I was in the retail business for years. I taught the adult Sunday School class in my church. It was my Pastor, Rev. Jimmy Curry who demanded I answer the call of God to preach. I did that, and immediately I knew that I DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS THAT I NEEDED TO KNOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SOULS OF OTHERS.
I worked, I paid the bills, and went to school! It took me 3 times as long as others but I worked at it. I am still at my age going to school to learn at Liberty University today. WHY???????? Because when we stop learning, we are dead!
The idea that "I did not have the money to go to school" is silly. That is saying, God called me but He can not supply my needs!
The idea that "I did not have the time to learn" is nonsense............God said that, "I will supply all your needs" = TIME!
The idea that God will anoint me and all of a sudden I will know the important things of God's wisdom is ludicrous.
All of those are simply excuses for not doing what is required to be a man of God, 2 Timothy 2:15.............
" Carefully Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
John Piper put it this way:...........
“It is difficult to preach week in and week out over the whole range of God’s revelation with depth and power if you are plagued with uncertainty when you venture beyond basic gospel generalities.”.......Amen!
Are you saying there will be no revival soon? If so, how would one know one way or the other?
Do understand what was said?????
"i told a pastor i know in text if there is not a great awakening soon. we aint seen NOTHING YET."
What does that mean, ya think?
Hello Major;
When you mentioned after the Pastor has preached, "what will he do tomorrow, next week or next month?" This is why a Bible or seminary education is important. You don't just utilize it the day after you graduate. It's a lifetime tool for nurturing and continued study.
My point aligns with what you shared. There are Pastors that didn't get the training or tools in their pastoral ministry, or they chose not to attend and in time became limited in their preaching and teaching.
I'll be brutally honest. There are Pastors who lacked the zeal to work hard in this ministry. Some quit and others struggle to remain content in their ministry.
Brothers, please let me reiterate that there are also many Pastors who are gifted and called in this ministry but didn't attend seminary or Bible college. I'm aware of this.
As far as affording the cost of attending seminary; in my experience I attended a Southern Baptist seminary and because our Church was also Southern Baptist, I was blessed by the school's low cost tuition and fees each semester I attended. I learned to "shop" for my text books and the Church covered my costs. For this I am grateful.
I also had my personal struggles. There were those many times I was fed up with driving to school, studying and groaned at the cost of purchasing more books for the next semester. I had to have my coffee fix to stay awake during the lectures.
Here's the thing. I always went to God in prayer and confessed my shortcomings and He already knew this about me. The Lord equipped me with perseverance, resilience, provisions, academic discipline, but most of all, my continued commitment to His calling for me.
It hasn't always been pretty but tell me one servant in the Bible who cruised his/her way to the Kingdom?
Hello Siloam, you wrote, "We should all be preachers of the gospel in the world wherever God placed us. Even there, although formal seminary training is not the point, having a grasp on everyday theology and putting Biblical principles in action is foundational."
Amen to that! Any Christian who witnesses and shares the Gospel to others for Christ is a minister.
God bless you, brothers and sisters.
Think?, Naww, I live in California, remember?
pretty simple first i realize the grammar patrol is all over my post
down to the strong meat if there is NOT a great awakening pretty soon. we aint seen nothing yet. with the transgender movement growing. the wars rumors of wars the Demas in the land loving this present world. .it dont take a seminary degree to see what is happening along with fixing to happen read 2 thess chapter 2 verse 7 and 8 i think it is.
i hope this clarity's
instead of ignoring me ask me your self instead of a third party
i wait for the Lord to show me the message so i know where and what to study. . there are many messages i can preach and there are message i am to preach. i dont have a note book of message to preach.
i realize to many its unorthodox way. but i know no other way .but to wait upon the Lord . i read and study through out the week but nor for the message to preach. that is a separate time..
i respect education and i respect your education but to say.
i know a pastor who does no notes most cases waits for the Lord to show him the message. which he gets when he gets to Church. been this way 42 years . God has equipped him this way. i do recommend studying a head of time . yes i have walked into Church asked to preach and not knowing ahead of time that i would.
i was given the scriptures and the message . i didn't have time to mess it up we study to show ourselves approved . it helps me when i sit down and listen to others preach often i will pick a thought from the message . plus i get fed to i have known some that feels they done been there done that knows it all
Yep! I did forget!