Spiritual Revelation Is Required To Believe Spiritual Truths

[calvin]

Then why did Jesus explain in plain language (by repeating the whole thing) His parable of the soils?

OK, so you weren't talking to me..(I'm used to it) But being a self appointed resident butinski.........
Jesus had to explain that parable because His disciples were sometimes 'as thick as a brick'. That had nothing to do with their heart attitude to His teachings or their recognition of Him being sent by God; it is just that at that time, none of them could really be described as being 'the sharpest claw in the paw'.

BTW I think I understood your chart........might have been more conventionally clear if you had used 'x's instead of 'y's. But your meaning was clear enough anyway.

 

[Kevin]

Then why did Jesus explain in plain language (by repeating the whole thing) His parable of the soils?

Simply because He wanted them to get the point. I often have to explain things not once but many times before my children get the point. The same applies to Jesus, because of His great love and His desire that not will perish, He explained things many times to His followers. He also used similar parables to explain the same thing - check out all the parables on the kingdom of God. Can we imagine a saviour who just told a story and then walked away and said - "well you are not spiritual enough to come into my kingdom if you cannot understand what I am saying".

Jesus made sure His followers understood what He was saying and He left it up to them to accept it or not.

 

[evangelist-77]

Kevin,

Weren't there very few who believed Jesus, and did anyone become born-again?

IMO, Jesus gave US all of those red words ... they weren't really meant for who He was talking to.

Reason: the Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out yet.
And He is necessary to confirm to (and convict) people that Jesus's Gospel is true.

IMO, the 11 disciples in John 20:22 were the first to be born-again (after Jesus in the Jordan).
Thomas came a bit later.

 

[Enow]

Weren't there very few who believed Jesus, and did anyone become born-again?

Not until Jesus had died on the cross, was buried, resurrected, and ascended to the right hand of God the Father was anyone born again. Jesus referred to the whole act of believing in Him for salvation was based on His crucifixion and resurrection to where He would be and is now before that throne of grace to be our Saviour to those that believe even in His name.

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

IMO, Jesus gave US all of those red words ... they weren't really meant for who He was talking to.

That all depends on what He was talking about. For example, in Matthew 24th chapter, His disciples had asked a series of questions that does not exactly pertain to happening altogether at the same time. This is where leaning on Jesus Christ in trusting Him as your Good Shepherd in giving us the wisodm we need to discern which answer He was giving to which of the series of questions that the disciples had asked Him.

Matthew 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Reason: the Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out yet.
And He is necessary to confirm to (and convict) people that Jesus's Gospel is true.

Matthew 10th chapter testifies of Jesus giving a temporary anointing of the Holy Spirit to even Judas Iscariot. He gave them power and testified of this below:

Matthew 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

IMO, the 11 disciples in John 20:22 were the first to be born-again (after Jesus in the Jordan).
Thomas came a bit later.

No. That was not when they were born again. The promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost was on the condition when Jesus was no longer physically with them.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

So Matthew 10th chapter and John 20:21 were not the events whin the disciples were born again. It was on the day of Pentecost that the believers were born again and the thus the birth of the church.

 

[Kevin]

Kevin,

Weren't there very few who believed Jesus, and did anyone become born-again?

IMO, Jesus gave US all of those red words ... they weren't really meant for who He was talking to.

Reason: the Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out yet.
And He is necessary to confirm to (and convict) people that Jesus's Gospel is true.

IMO, the 11 disciples in John 20:22 were the first to be born-again (after Jesus in the Jordan).
Thomas came a bit later.

Jesus had multitudes following Him. Yes the words of Jesus are for us but they were also for the very people He preached to in the flesh. The teachings of Jesus are not exclusive - they are for all people past present and future.

 

[evangelist-77]

Kevin,

Yes, the Day of Pentecost is the obvious choice for the beginning of believers
receiving both salvation and the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But, I’ve been wondering what “Receive the Holy Spirit.” meant in John 20:22.

I meant that the #1 reason for Jesus’s many words was for them to be recalled
and written down later.

To repeat, that many left all and followed Jesus does not mean they understood
and believed in His spiritual gospel.
God can show favor with anyone and have people follow him/her.
I.E. None of Jesus’s multitudes became born-again when He preached to them.

 

[calvin]

Evangelist-77 posted:

God can show favor with anyone and have people follow him/her.
I.E. None of Jesus’s multitudes became born-again when He preached to them.

I agree totally that God can show favour to whom He pleases. Would this not allow Him to invest His Spirit on people when it pleases Him also without having to follow some sort of time line formula?
Consider: would an unregenerate person be gifted by the Holy Spirit to preach, and heal?

Matt 10:5,6,7,8.

10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,
Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.

and again,
Luke 10:1,9.

10:1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.
10:9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.'

These were sent ahead to exercise a ministry of preparation much the same as was John the Baptist, but with even more power. They were to prepare the way for Jesus. Is that not basically what an evangelist does today?

 

[evangelist-77]

Kevin,

Yes, good point ... obviously the disciples were used as anointed evangelists before being regenerated!
And to think that the people could not be born-again until later ... only after the Holy Spirit came!

 

[calvin]

Kevin?????? one of us might be overloaded with umbrage, the other might be highly elated. On the other hand......