Supreme Purpose

#21
Hi @Nobleman,

Great topic there bro. I also believe that a purpose of God is to have many sons made like unto the Lord - new creations, of a special order - kingpriests unto God set to rule & reign with Christ on His throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 1: 6, & 3: 21)

However....I do not believe it is God`s supreme purpose -

`...having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself. that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven & which are on earth - in Him.` (Eph. 1: 9 - 10)

This tells me that it is the glorified Son who will bring all rulership under His feet & reign in bodily form, & not just in the Godhead beyond the created order. God the Father desired that all rulership will be under His Son & that all things will be restored through Him - in heaven (plural) (third heaven & Universal & atmospheric heavens) & earth.

Much to think about & maybe discuss. Marilyn.
Thank you for your comments and chiming in.
Enjoyed what you had to say, hope you continue to join in the fun, blessings Mike
 
#22
Thank you for your comments and chiming in.
Enjoyed what you had to say, hope you continue to join in the fun, blessings Mike
Hi Nobleman,

Thank you for the encouragement & I`d like to follow this discussion as I see it as one that needs the Holy Spirit`s clarification across the Body. I was so pleased to read that you believed in the 3 groups that God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations.

I did read from Major that he only saw the `saved & lost.` And I do think from what I have read of Major (if you are reading too) that you have God`s heart for people - a large, caring compassionate heart. However we know from God`s word that God has not cast off Israel & that He will open their blind eyes in His timing. As to their state at the moment, however, they are either in the `saved or the lost` area.

Now I would like to ask a question which concerns the supreme purpose of God. We know from scripture that `all things` will be restored in Christ. Often we tend to view this as just the earth, but the scriptures tell us `in heaven & that which is on earth.` (Eph. 1: 9 - 10)

So what things in the heavens do you see that need restoration?

Marilyn.
 
Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#23
Hi Nobleman,

Thank you for the encouragement & I`d like to follow this discussion as I see it as one that needs the Holy Spirit`s clarification across the Body. I was so pleased to read that you believed in the 3 groups that God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations.

I did read from Major that he only saw the `saved & lost.` And I do think from what I have read of Major (if you are reading too) that you have God`s heart for people - a large, caring compassionate heart. However we know from God`s word that God has not cast off Israel & that He will open their blind eyes in His timing. As to their state at the moment, however, they are either in the `saved or the lost` area.

Now I would like to ask a question which concerns the supreme purpose of God. We know from scripture that `all things` will be restored in Christ. Often we tend to view this as just the earth, but the scriptures tell us `in heaven & that which is on earth.` (Eph. 1: 9 - 10)

So what things in the heavens do you see that need restoration?

Marilyn.
Hello sister. I hope that you are well. Upon reading your comment #22 I felt like I needed to clarify my position of saved and lost. I think that you are agreeing with me but I just wanted to be clear.

IMO, the same would apply to Israel. NO- God has not forgotten them and they are in fact the jewel of God's eye which He will turn His focus to after His church if completed.
That will then be the focus of the 7 year tribulation period and His trying to save them.

IMO, the church has not replaced Israel.

Romans 11:26 plainly says........
All Israel will be saved.”

The question then must be ---- “What is meant by Israel?” Is the future “Israel” literal or figurative. I am a "literalist" and take the literal approach to the promises of the Old Testament and believe that the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be restored to a right relationship with God and receive the fulfillment of the covenants through the Lord Jesus Christ.

When Paul says Israel will be “saved” in Romans 11:26, he refers to their deliverance from sin (verse 27) as they accept the Savior, their Messiah, in the end times. Moses said, “The Lord your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live” in Deuteronomy 30:6. Israel’s physical inheritance of the land promised to Abraham will be an integral part of God’s ultimate plan again stated in Deuteronomy 30:3–5.

However, the individual people of Israel are the same as those in Alabama. Today, they are either saved or they are not saved. There are many things in which we can take a middle of the road position on but salvation is not one of them. We are either with God or we are not with God.

Matt. 12:30 says..........
"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

Revelation 3:15-16 .....
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. "

I hope this helps in understanding my comment.
 
Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#24
Well put. When reading Scripture one must be careful to not break or violate the flow, theme and context. Romans chapter 9, 10 and 11 should all be read together. While 11:26 says that "all Israel will be saved" it is further said "the Deliverer will come out of Zion and HE will turn away ungodliness from Jacob." The hand of God will work again (and has been working) with Israel. There are many people of Israel still turning to their Messiah. To say that the "church" has replaced Israel violates what the church is...it is the body of true believers regardless of where they are from. The word "church" (Tyndale and other English translators wanted to use the word "assembly" or "congregation") means simply a body of people who have assembled or been called together. Any Israelite that believes in Christ is part of the "church." (And the first "church" WAS in Israel composed of Jews.) Even the Apostle Paul admits a mystery in it all...he ends chapter 11 confirming that the details are "past finding out." (v.33) V.34 Asks who has known the mind of the Lord, and v.36 confesses that it is all of Him, through Him and to Him. In other words, God is not ignoring nor leaving out Israel...but exactly how He is going to bring it all to pass is something He has not fully revealed.
As far as salvation and works go, Ephesians 2:8-10 tells that even though we're not saved BY works...we ARE the workmanship of God created FOR good works. James simply agrees with this. James never says that salvation is revealed in works...but a living faith. (A living faith breathes, moves, responds....a dead faith does not.) When he later says (v.24) that a person is "justified by works and not faith only" he is referring to the justifying of what the person says (v14). Is the person justified in saying they have faith if that "faith" is dead and doesn't do anything? No. The last verse of James 2, v. 26, gives a vivid and somewhat humorous picture. Imagine a dead body (no breath...no spirit) with a sign on it that reads "I'm alive!" Though the sign reads that way the claim is not justified. It is the same with a faith that claims to be alive but has no life...no spirit...it is dead...and it's claim to be alive is not justified.
 
Amens/Likes: Major and Noblemen
#25
Well put. When reading Scripture one must be careful to not break or violate the flow, theme and context. Romans chapter 9, 10 and 11 should all be read together. While 11:26 says that "all Israel will be saved" it is further said "the Deliverer will come out of Zion and HE will turn away ungodliness from Jacob." The hand of God will work again (and has been working) with Israel. There are many people of Israel still turning to their Messiah. To say that the "church" has replaced Israel violates what the church is...it is the body of true believers regardless of where they are from. The word "church" (Tyndale and other English translators wanted to use the word "assembly" or "congregation") means simply a body of people who have assembled or been called together. Any Israelite that believes in Christ is part of the "church." (And the first "church" WAS in Israel composed of Jews.) Even the Apostle Paul admits a mystery in it all...he ends chapter 11 confirming that the details are "past finding out." (v.33) V.34 Asks who has known the mind of the Lord, and v.36 confesses that it is all of Him, through Him and to Him. In other words, God is not ignoring nor leaving out Israel...but exactly how He is going to bring it all to pass is something He has not fully revealed.
As far as salvation and works go, Ephesians 2:8-10 tells that even though we're not saved BY works...we ARE the workmanship of God created FOR good works. James simply agrees with this. James never says that salvation is revealed in works...but a living faith. (A living faith breathes, moves, responds....a dead faith does not.) When he later says (v.24) that a person is "justified by works and not faith only" he is referring to the justifying of what the person says (v14). Is the person justified in saying they have faith if that "faith" is dead and doesn't do anything? No. The last verse of James 2, v. 26, gives a vivid and somewhat humorous picture. Imagine a dead body (no breath...no spirit) with a sign on it that reads "I'm alive!" Though the sign reads that way the claim is not justified. It is the same with a faith that claims to be alive but has no life...no spirit...it is dead...and it's claim to be alive is not justified.
Outstanding!
 
#26
Hi Nobleman,

Thank you for the encouragement & I`d like to follow this discussion as I see it as one that needs the Holy Spirit`s clarification across the Body. I was so pleased to read that you believed in the 3 groups that God has purposes for - the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations.

I did read from Major that he only saw the `saved & lost.` And I do think from what I have read of Major (if you are reading too) that you have God`s heart for people - a large, caring compassionate heart. However we know from God`s word that God has not cast off Israel & that He will open their blind eyes in His timing. As to their state at the moment, however, they are either in the `saved or the lost` area.

Now I would like to ask a question which concerns the supreme purpose of God. We know from scripture that `all things` will be restored in Christ. Often we tend to view this as just the earth, but the scriptures tell us `in heaven & that which is on earth.` (Eph. 1: 9 - 10)

So what things in the heavens do you see that need restoration?

Marilyn.
I think my answer would be in the OP, the supreme purpose of God to demonstrate the exceeding riches of His grace.
I don't see restoration like I do the new birth. The divine plan of God to take the unregenerate creature, and place a part of himself in that creature, will go down through the endless ages, as the greatest act of pure Grace ever to be witnessed in heaven or in earth. It is measureless, it is priceless, it is wonders to perform that mankind can ever experience.
That is the point being expressed, as a body we need to see the exceeding riches of his grace, which is Christ in you the hope of glory.
Religion, doctrines of men have failed to bring about such a message. Men and women in general go wanting, there is no other message.
As I have stated before, preaching the death, burial, and resurrection is part of the gospel, but there is a depth in the word of God that will lead and keep the believer in the fullness of grace.
 
#27
I think my answer would be in the OP, the supreme purpose of God to demonstrate the exceeding riches of His grace.
I don't see restoration like I do the new birth. The divine plan of God to take the unregenerate creature, and place a part of himself in that creature, will go down through the endless ages, as the greatest act of pure Grace ever to be witnessed in heaven or in earth. It is measureless, it is priceless, it is wonders to perform that mankind can ever experience.
That is the point being expressed, as a body we need to see the exceeding riches of his grace, which is Christ in you the hope of glory.
Religion, doctrines of men have failed to bring about such a message. Men and women in general go wanting, there is no other message.
As I have stated before, preaching the death, burial, and resurrection is part of the gospel, but there is a depth in the word of God that will lead and keep the believer in the fullness of grace.
Hi Nobleman,

I understand what you mean, as in, Christ in us the hope of glory, however......I believe God`s word tells us there is more to be restored than just us. We can get very much US focussed, when actually the Father is restoring all things through Christ. Our rebirth is but the means to receiving our inheritance in God`s great kingdom. And there is much to be restored there under Christ.

The supreme purpose of God the Father, I believe, is to have His Son physically rule in every realm, putting down every rule & authority. And the Body of Christ, amazingly, will rule & reign with Christ from that exalted position in the third heaven.

So it is that I see that salvation is the means & the throne is the inheritance of the Body.

Marilyn.
 
#28
Hi Nobleman,

I understand what you mean, as in, Christ in us the hope of glory, however......I believe God`s word tells us there is more to be restored than just us. We can get very much US focussed, when actually the Father is restoring all things through Christ. Our rebirth is but the means to receiving our inheritance in God`s great kingdom. And there is much to be restored there under Christ.

The supreme purpose of God the Father, I believe, is to have His Son physically rule in every realm, putting down every rule & authority. And the Body of Christ, amazingly, will rule & reign with Christ from that exalted position in the third heaven.

So it is that I see that salvation is the means & the throne is the inheritance of the Body.

Marilyn.
Yes I do understand what you are saying, when we follow along in Pauls epistles we see he uses the in Christ statement over 150. There is something being said that must be revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You do understand the weight that carries, it is very pertinent too here and now as well as eternity.
 
Amens/Likes: Major and Complete
#29
Yes I do understand what you are saying, when we follow along in Pauls epistles we see he uses the in Christ statement over 150. There is something being said that must be revealed by the Holy Spirit.
You do understand the weight that carries, it is very pertinent too here and now as well as eternity.
[email protected],

Glad we are seeing by the Spirit, together.

Yes the `in Christ,` is so wonderful, beyond imagining. I agree that the Apostle Paul really emphasised it, as it was a hidden mystery, as we now know. And the Apostle Paul by the Holy Spirit does give the most wondrous revelation of God`s purposes through Christ, for - the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. Yet for those purposes to come about the Lord Jesus Christ needs to be enthroned in the third heaven & then put down all (rebellious) rule & authority.

God the Father`s supreme purpose was & always is that Christ be supreme over all.

regards, Marilyn.
 
#30
[email protected],

Glad we are seeing by the Spirit, together.

Yes the `in Christ,` is so wonderful, beyond imagining. I agree that the Apostle Paul really emphasised it, as it was a hidden mystery, as we now know. And the Apostle Paul by the Holy Spirit does give the most wondrous revelation of God`s purposes through Christ, for - the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. Yet for those purposes to come about the Lord Jesus Christ needs to be enthroned in the third heaven & then put down all (rebellious) rule & authority.

God the Father`s supreme purpose was & always is that Christ be supreme over all.

regards, Marilyn.
Isn't it wonderful when a plan comes together???
 
Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#33
“In the beginning was the Word...”, The Greek definition for, “Word”, is, “logos”, which
means,"to speak intelligently". It comes from the Greek word, “Lego”, which means "to break silence."
It also means, “reason”, “purpose” and ,”motive”.

Everything we do as a human being we must first have a purpose, motive, or reason before we do anything. If man is like that so is the Lord God because that is were we got that tendency from. God's purpose and reason for everything is Jesus Christ, for ALL things were made by him, and ALL things were made for him. Since Jesus Christ is the purpose for all things, and he is our head, and we are his body, then all things were made for Christ and his Church.
 
Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#34
“In the beginning was the Word...”, The Greek definition for, “Word”, is, “logos”, which
means,"to speak intelligently". It comes from the Greek word, “Lego”, which means "to break silence."
It also means, “reason”, “purpose” and ,”motive”.

Everything we do as a human being we must first have a purpose, motive, or reason before we do anything. If man is like that so is the Lord God because that is were we got that tendency from. God's purpose and reason for everything is Jesus Christ, for ALL things were made by him, and ALL things were made for him. Since Jesus Christ is the purpose for all things, and he is our head, and we are his body, then all things were made for Christ and his Church.
Colossians 1:16.......
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him."
 
Amens/Likes: Complete and Noblemen
#35
' ... ... Since Jesus Christ is the purpose for all things, and he is our head, and we are his body, then all things were made for Christ and his Church.'
Hi CCW95A,

I do not believe we are justified in adding to what is written:-

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him;
and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life;
and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness;
and the darkness comprehended it not.'

John 1:1-5

'Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power:
for Thou hast created all things,
and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.'

(Rev 4:11)

'God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,
Whom He hath appointed heir of all things,

by whom also He made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of His glory,
and the express image of His person,
and upholding all things by the word of His power,
when He had by Himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;'

(Heb 1:1)

* It is wrong, I believe, to conclude that because Christ is the Head of the Church which is His Body, that all things made, were made for the church which is His body too. He is also the head of all principality and power (Col.2:10), so by your reasoning these also must be included. Which is obviously not right.

'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:'

(Col 2:9,10)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#36
Hi CCW95A,

I do not believe we are justified in adding to what is written:-

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him;
and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life;
and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness;
and the darkness comprehended it not.'

John 1:1-5

'Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power:
for Thou hast created all things,
and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.'

(Rev 4:11)

'God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,
Whom He hath appointed heir of all things,

by whom also He made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of His glory,
and the express image of His person,
and upholding all things by the word of His power,
when He had by Himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;'

(Heb 1:1)

* It is wrong, I believe, to conclude that because Christ is the Head of the Church which is His Body, that all things made, were made for the church which is His body too. He is also the head of all principality and power (Col.2:10), so by your reasoning these also must be included. Which is obviously not right.

'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power:'

(Col 2:9,10)

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Principalities and powers do NOT live in Christ, but we do!!!

'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him, (Col 2:9-10)
 
Amens/Likes: Noblemen
#37
Correct, it is a term myself and a few others have come up with. I use some other language, like "the birthing."
But think about this, there are three races of people on this earth right now. There is the Jewish race, Gentile race, and new Creation race.
Yes the body of Christ, but we are a race of people, new race of people. There has never been a people (children) like us before.
We are the first to ever contain Christ.
It's not a doctrine thing just a term when studied out, does make sense.
I don't mean to confuses you or anyone, I just like to use certain language when I'm writing.
There is so many pat answers and jargon in religion, even in writing, I try to stay away from.
I would say that there are Two kinds of people on the earth today.

1) The Saved.
2) The Lost.

When the lost get saved they do not become another race but actually become part of #1, hence we still have Two.
 
#38
Sadly enough I think some believers have never put the pieces together and seen how on purpose or better yet by purpose and that is God's purpose everything from the Virgin birth to the cross unto hell and back to the right side of God was a perfect strategically plan from the beginning.

They never grasp why things were done as they were.
Thank God one can still have their name in the book of life though.
Blessings
FCJ
Agreed. IMO it is easier for them to accept "Coincidences" than it is to accept "Determinism".

Man hates the idea of not being in control of his own life.
 
#39
Principalities and powers do NOT live in Christ, but we do!!!

'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him, (Col 2:9-10)
Agreed. Life happens because of Christ not in spit of Christ.

Colossians 1:16-17.....
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. "
 
#40
I would say that there are Two kinds of people on the earth today.

1) The Saved.
2) The Lost.

When the lost get saved they do not become another race but actually become part of #1, hence we still have Two.
Not exactly, a race and a kind of people are two different things.