The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Hobie]

We have things becoming very clear and unveiling right before our eyes in these last days, so lets take a look at those who will be standing before God as the 144,000..

Revelation 14:1-5
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Now those who stand at the end while Christ still intercedes for us in the Most Holy Place will need to like Him. Christ kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the end

So we have a world who are not all Gods people, composed of two groups, the true followers of God and then the others whose hearts and minds are not cleansed and not ready for Christ, this is the church militant. So there are those on the side of Satan will be left out and will perish, and the people who are His, sealed and prepared to go with Christ to His kingdowm.

We find in 2 Corinthians 1:21-22..
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”

So the saints throughout the ages have been sealed, and yet those who are the 144,000 also need to be sealed as they prepare for the coming of the Lord. Now is the time to prepare, not at when its too late and Christ has appeared and probation closed. The seal of God needs to be put on His people before the Second Coming, but some think they can continue in sin and iniquity till Christ comes.

Hebrews describes the role of Jesus as our mediator in heaven. We read in 1 Timothy 2:5..
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And we see this in John 16:25-27..
John 16:25-27
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

So a time will come when Jesus will not pray to the Father on our behalf, because we will know that “the Father himself loves us.” Here in John 16, Jesus tells us a time will come when we won’t have a mediator because we won’t need one for those that truly know and love Christ. So the 144,000 are sealed and alive at the Second Coming and stand without a mediator, but then why only 144,000. I think we can find that answer in the following verse, Daniel 12:1...

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The time of trouble such as never was will be devastating and come to a close with the Seven Last Plagues, and many even of the saints will not live through it and go to the grave during this time. It is the living saints who are the 144,000 at the end, while those saints in their graves who are sealed, will be brought up in the clouds to be taken to heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Hobie]

But we are shown even more, if one looks. The 144,000 are living at the end of time when Jesus comes, and all of these saints will have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Revelation 7:1-4
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

We see that the 144,000 are sealed just before the winds of strife hit the earth at the end of time. The four angels are holding back the four winds of the earth so they cannot harm the earth until God's servants are sealed on their foreheads. So, it is clear that the 144,000 are God's people living at the time of the end in the time of trouble and they will need this sealing in order to survive the trouble of the last days. That is why it is so urgent that they receive God's seal and its why the angels are holding off the trouble until they are protected.

But who are these people, lets read further to understand:
Revelation 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So it might seem only the Israelites will be found in this group. But, there is a problem with this idea. Many of these tribes no longer exist. Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, and Simeon were lost when they were forced to leave their land.
2 Kings 17:5-6
5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.
6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

2 Kings 17:18
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone.

In Revelation we see listed 12 tribes of Israel out of which they were to come and we realize that this has to be symbolic because even in John’s time most of those tribes no longer existed and certainly they do not today. Samaria, the northern 10 tribes, were moved to various places and they intermarried with other groups and thus they no longer exist. So, how could the 144,000 be numbered from tribes that no longer exist, and we find that the probation of the Jews as a nation had been passed.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The kingdom of God has been taken from them and given to others and we see who in Romans..

Romans 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

The Gentiles are grafted in...
Romans 11:17-18
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

In God's kingdom, there is neither Jew nor Greek:
Galatians 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we have been baptized into Christ, we will have put on Christ. Which makes us Abraham's seed. Thus, we are heirs according to the promise because there is neither Jew nor Greek. We have been grafted in. So yes, we can be included into the 144,000 even if we are not Jews because we have become Abraham's seed.
Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A true Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew where the Spirit of God is in the heart. We see what Christ said..
Luke 3:7-9
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

God can make children of Abraham out of stones so the Jews couldn't say they were special just because of Abraham. God has chosen to make children of Abraham from those of us who have good fruit, thus these are spiritual Jews. But He throws into the fire those who have not repented as seen in their fruits.

 

[Major]

We have things becoming very clear and unveiling right before our eyes in these last days, so lets take a look at those who will be standing before God as the 144,000..

Revelation 14:1-5
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Now those who stand at the end while Christ still intercedes for us in the Most Holy Place will need to like Him. Christ kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the end

So we have a world who are not all Gods people, composed of two groups, the true followers of God and then the others whose hearts and minds are not cleansed and not ready for Christ, this is the church militant. So there are those on the side of Satan will be left out and will perish, and the people who are His, sealed and prepared to go with Christ to His kingdowm.

We find in 2 Corinthians 1:21-22..
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”

So the saints throughout the ages have been sealed, and yet those who are the 144,000 also need to be sealed as they prepare for the coming of the Lord. Now is the time to prepare, not at when its too late and Christ has appeared and probation closed. The seal of God needs to be put on His people before the Second Coming, but some think they can continue in sin and iniquity till Christ comes.

Hebrews describes the role of Jesus as our mediator in heaven. We read in 1 Timothy 2:5..
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

And we see this in John 16:25-27..
John 16:25-27
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

So a time will come when Jesus will not pray to the Father on our behalf, because we will know that “the Father himself loves us.” Here in John 16, Jesus tells us a time will come when we won’t have a mediator because we won’t need one for those that truly know and love Christ. So the 144,000 are sealed and alive at the Second Coming and stand without a mediator, but then why only 144,000. I think we can find that answer in the following verse, Daniel 12:1...

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The time of trouble such as never was will be devastating and come to a close with the Seven Last Plagues, and many even of the saints will not live through it and go to the grave during this time. It is the living saints who are the 144,000 at the end, while those saints in their graves who are sealed, will be brought up in the clouds to be taken to heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is completely erroneous false teaching. It is rooted in the mind of Ellen White who was a 7 day Adventist. She falsely taught the 7th Day theology that the 144 K would all be 7th Day Adventists.

It is this kind of false teaching along with that of the Jehovah Witnesses that has caused so much confusion over Bible theology.

The 144 k have nothing what so ever to do with the Church. They are ALL Jewish virgin men. They will be saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit by the preaching of the TWO witnesses right after the Rapture.

When taken at face value, just as God gave it to John 2000 years ago, Revelation 7:4 actually and literally says that there will be 144,000 actual Jewish people living during the end-times tribulation. Nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the children of Israel, according to verses 5–8.
They are NOT part of the Church and neither are they Jews saved before the Church is removed.

These 144,000 Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God. They are kept safe from the divine judgments and from the wrath of the Antichrist and will be allowed to complete their mission.

Their mission will be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

 

[Major]

But we are shown even more, if one looks. The 144,000 are living at the end of time when Jesus comes, and all of these saints will have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Revelation 7:1-4
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

We see that the 144,000 are sealed just before the winds of strife hit the earth at the end of time. The four angels are holding back the four winds of the earth so they cannot harm the earth until God's servants are sealed on their foreheads. So, it is clear that the 144,000 are God's people living at the time of the end in the time of trouble and they will need this sealing in order to survive the trouble of the last days. That is why it is so urgent that they receive God's seal and its why the angels are holding off the trouble until they are protected.

But who are these people, lets read further to understand:
Revelation 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So it might seem only the Israelites will be found in this group. But, there is a problem with this idea. Many of these tribes no longer exist. Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, and Simeon were lost when they were forced to leave their land.
2 Kings 17:5-6
5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.
6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

2 Kings 17:18
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone.

In Revelation we see listed 12 tribes of Israel out of which they were to come and we realize that this has to be symbolic because even in John’s time most of those tribes no longer existed and certainly they do not today. Samaria, the northern 10 tribes, were moved to various places and they intermarried with other groups and thus they no longer exist. So, how could the 144,000 be numbered from tribes that no longer exist, and we find that the probation of the Jews as a nation had been passed.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The kingdom of God has been taken from them and given to others and we see who in Romans..

Romans 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

The Gentiles are grafted in...
Romans 11:17-18
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

In God's kingdom, there is neither Jew nor Greek:
Galatians 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we have been baptized into Christ, we will have put on Christ. Which makes us Abraham's seed. Thus, we are heirs according to the promise because there is neither Jew nor Greek. We have been grafted in. So yes, we can be included into the 144,000 even if we are not Jews because we have become Abraham's seed.
Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A true Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew where the Spirit of God is in the heart. We see what Christ said..
Luke 3:7-9
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

God can make children of Abraham out of stones so the Jews couldn't say they were special just because of Abraham. God has chosen to make children of Abraham from those of us who have good fruit, thus these are spiritual Jews. But He throws into the fire those who have not repented as seen in their fruits.

Hobie said...........
" So yes, we can be included into the 144,000 even if we are not Jews because we have become Abraham's seed."

NO. That is false. It is another way of saying that the 144,000 will be 7 Day Advantist!

The Advantists and Jehovah Witnesses have tried, but The 144,000 are Jewish, virgin men! There is NO way possible to make them anything else.

Ellen G. White in her 1st published vision claimed that the 144,000 of Revelation were the 7th Day Adventist’s that would go through the Time of Trouble—something she claimed was imminent upon that generation ------but that didn’t happen.

In her first vision, she also not only falsely claimed to be shown the day and hour of Jesus’s coming, (Not Biblical) but that the 144,000 were the “living saints” who were specifically given the day and the hour(Not Biblical) of the return of Christ, referring to their small flock at the time.

Why am I telling you this???? So that you will know where this false teaching is rooted in and comes from. Some may think that I am being overly harsh toward a fellow forum member. IF I am wrong about this I will be the 1st to apologize to Hobie.

2 Timothy 4:3-4.........
" For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

 

[BibleLover]

But we are shown even more, if one looks. The 144,000 are living at the end of time when Jesus comes, and all of these saints will have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Revelation 7:1-4
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

We see that the 144,000 are sealed just before the winds of strife hit the earth at the end of time. The four angels are holding back the four winds of the earth so they cannot harm the earth until God's servants are sealed on their foreheads. So, it is clear that the 144,000 are God's people living at the time of the end in the time of trouble and they will need this sealing in order to survive the trouble of the last days. That is why it is so urgent that they receive God's seal and its why the angels are holding off the trouble until they are protected.

But who are these people, lets read further to understand:
Revelation 7:4-8
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So it might seem only the Israelites will be found in this group. But, there is a problem with this idea. Many of these tribes no longer exist. Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, and Simeon were lost when they were forced to leave their land.
2 Kings 17:5-6
5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.
6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

2 Kings 17:18
18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone.

In Revelation we see listed 12 tribes of Israel out of which they were to come and we realize that this has to be symbolic because even in John’s time most of those tribes no longer existed and certainly they do not today. Samaria, the northern 10 tribes, were moved to various places and they intermarried with other groups and thus they no longer exist. So, how could the 144,000 be numbered from tribes that no longer exist, and we find that the probation of the Jews as a nation had been passed.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The kingdom of God has been taken from them and given to others and we see who in Romans..

Romans 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

The Gentiles are grafted in...
Romans 11:17-18
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

In God's kingdom, there is neither Jew nor Greek:
Galatians 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we have been baptized into Christ, we will have put on Christ. Which makes us Abraham's seed. Thus, we are heirs according to the promise because there is neither Jew nor Greek. We have been grafted in. So yes, we can be included into the 144,000 even if we are not Jews because we have become Abraham's seed.
Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

A true Jew is one who is inwardly a Jew where the Spirit of God is in the heart. We see what Christ said..
Luke 3:7-9
7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

God can make children of Abraham out of stones so the Jews couldn't say they were special just because of Abraham. God has chosen to make children of Abraham from those of us who have good fruit, thus these are spiritual Jews. But He throws into the fire those who have not repented as seen in their fruits.

Replacement theology is rank antisemitism. God knows whose DNA contains the tribal markers, so He can bring back the tribes' identities. The Church is not Israel, nor will it ever be.

One unrelated question for you: on what day of the week are we commanded to hold church services?

 

[BibleLover]

Hobie said...........
" So yes, we can be included into the 144,000 even if we are not Jews because we have become Abraham's seed."

NO. That is false. It is another way of saying that the 144,000 will be 7 Day Advantist!

The Advantists and Jehovah Witnesses have tried, but The 144,000 are Jewish, virgin men! There is NO way possible to make them anything else.

Ellen G. White in her 1st published vision claimed that the 144,000 of Revelation were the 7th Day Adventist’s that would go through the Time of Trouble—something she claimed was imminent upon that generation ------but that didn’t happen.

In her first vision, she also not only falsely claimed to be shown the day and hour of Jesus’s coming, (Not Biblical) but that the 144,000 were the “living saints” who were specifically given the day and the hour(Not Biblical) of the return of Christ, referring to their small flock at the time.

Why am I telling you this???? So that you will know where this false teaching is rooted in and comes from. Some may think that I am being overly harsh toward a fellow forum member. IF I am wrong about this I will be the 1st to apologize to Hobie.

2 Timothy 4:3-4.........
" For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

In the Chattanooga area we have a large SDA population because they have a large university here. I've found they're like one trick ponies. Their main theological focus is on a distorted view of eschatology based on the prolific writings of a crackpot who fancied herself as some kind of prophetess.

 

[cocoa]

Things are getting very interesting...

This is the Orthodox teaching on the 144,000...
symbolic numerology also remains constant, with the number 666 (13.18), for example, symbolizing total depravity, unlike 7 which is the symbol of fulness; and the number 144,000 (14.3) being the symbol of total completion and the full number of the saved, the result of the multiplication of 12 times 12—the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles of Christ. Thus, through the images of the book of Revelation, a depth of penetration into universal spiritual realities is disclosed which is greater than any particular earthly reality. The insight into the meaning of the book depends on the inspiration of God and the purity of heart of those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and minds willing and able to understand.

The Orthodox Faith - Volume I - Doctrine and Scripture - New Testament - Book of Revelation

The Book of Revelation, also called the Apocalypse which means that which has been disclosed, and also called the Revelation to Saint John, is traditionally considered to be the work of the Lord’s apostle who later wrote the fourth gospel…

www.oca.org

 

[cocoa]

JW theology is inspired from the early teachings of the SDA.

 

[Major]

In the Chattanooga area we have a large SDA population because they have a large university here. I've found they're like one trick ponies. Their main theological focus is on a distorted view of eschatology based on the prolific writings of a crackpot who fancied herself as some kind of prophetess.

Exactly!

 

[Major]

JW theology is inspired from the early teachings of the SDA.

That is correct! Only to educate those who read our posts...........................

Around 1830, a man by the name of William Miller said that Jesus would physically return to earth in a glorious event on Oct. 22, 1844 to cleanse the earth by fire.

The Great Disappointment, was when Jesus did not miraculously return on October 22, 1844, as Miller had prophesied. One group of people followed a leader then by the name of Hiram Edson’s. His belief that he lead those people to believe was that this date referred to a cleansing in heaven that would occur before Christ’s second coming which they called the “Sanctuary Doctrine”.

Now, this Sanctuary Doctrine involves a pre-Advent investigation and judging of God's people to determine whose sins will be removed from the Sanctuary. It is called the Investigative Judgment. According to the 7th Day Advantist prophet Ellen G. White, Christ started this judgment in 1844, beginning with Adam and Eve and progressing chronologically down through the ages, judging all of the dead believers. At some point, near the end of time, Christ will begin judging living believers. During this Investigative Judgment God either blots out the sins of the believer, or he removes the name of the believer from the Book of Life.
Of course any Bible reading Christian knows that this is non-biblical and actually silly!

The Seventh-day Adventist Church arose out of this group and was officially organized in 1863.

From that cultish non-biblical group came the Jehovah Witnesses. Charles Taze Russell became known as a controversial 7 Day Adventist teacher and founded the International Bible Students Association in 1872. He rejected the concept of hell in favor of annihilation of the soul. He also rejected Trinitarian theology regarding God. He also rejected Jesus as God in the flesh in favor of Michael the arch angel.
He taught that Christ’s second coming involved an invisible presence, and the millennial dawn had already occurred in 1874, which would be followed by his visible advent in 1914 when he would establish his millennial kingdom on earth.

 

[Major]

Things are getting very interesting...

This is the Orthodox teaching on the 144,000...
symbolic numerology also remains constant, with the number 666 (13.18), for example, symbolizing total depravity, unlike 7 which is the symbol of fulness; and the number 144,000 (14.3) being the symbol of total completion and the full number of the saved, the result of the multiplication of 12 times 12—the number of the tribes of Israel and the apostles of Christ. Thus, through the images of the book of Revelation, a depth of penetration into universal spiritual realities is disclosed which is greater than any particular earthly reality. The insight into the meaning of the book depends on the inspiration of God and the purity of heart of those who have eyes to see and ears to hear and minds willing and able to understand.

The Orthodox Faith - Volume I - Doctrine and Scripture - New Testament - Book of Revelation

The Book of Revelation, also called the Apocalypse which means that which has been disclosed, and also called the Revelation to Saint John, is traditionally considered to be the work of the Lord’s apostle who later wrote the fourth gospel…

www.oca.org

I would recommend to anyone who has never done any study on Bible numbers to do so.

Math is something that is not open to interpretation because 2 + 2 is always 4. The numbers in the Bible prove that God is a master mathematician!

The liberal elements of the Christian faith want to "spiritualize" those things in the Revelation instead of accepting them as they are written. There is a reason why God used numbers!

 

[BibleLover]

I would recommend to anyone who has never done any study on Bible numbers to do so.

Math is something that is not open to interpretation because 2 + 2 is always 4. The numbers in the Bible prove that God is a master mathematician!

The liberal elements of the Christian faith want to "spiritualize" those things in the Revelation instead of accepting them as they are written. There is a reason why God used numbers!

Yes, brother! I've always held that mathematics is the language of God because of its perfection, precision, and application to every facet of the universe.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Math is something that is not open to interpretation because 2 + 2 is always 4. The numbers in the Bible prove that God is a master mathematician!

I love this..... MY GOD is PERFECTION in EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Major]

Yes, brother! I've always held that mathematics is the language of God because of its perfection, precision, and application to every facet of the universe.

I became interested in the math seen in the Bible back in the 70's. The more I studied the more it became astounding to what was right there in front of me.

2 + 3 = 5 was true a million years before man discovered it.

One of my professors once said to us...........
"Since God is the supreme creator who brought the universe into being, then the perfect mathematical laws that govern reality reflect the divine intelligence of such a God. Understanding mathematics, then, is an act of glimpsing the eternal mind of God."

WOW!