The Apostle Paul

Ask him if he believes ANY of the Bible! How can he pick and choose what parts to believe when it was the Holy Ghost who inspired all of it?
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I questioned him on that since he kept saying, "prove to me where Jesus said that God wrote the Bible," and he never answers. He goes off on another issue. I think the guy is extremely stubborn in his ways and refuses to accept proof, even when it's given to him. It's sad really.
 
Some don't like Paul because he can be hard to understand. Some passages I have to read multiple times and/or get multiple translations to get the meaning and message.
Others like the "wiggle room" of only following Jesus' teachings. Paul gets specific and explains what Jesus was teaching, and they really don't like to be told what to do or how to do it.
Following only Jesus allows them to twist the meaning of His teachings to justify their own beliefs. Such as "Jesus did not say anything about gay issues" and "I can be a Christian and support abortion rights" and "don't judge me because Jesus said so".
Still others want to be justified by their works, the "I'm a good person" crowd. Paul directly teaches against this and offends their "good sense"/wisdom.
To follow the Holy Spirit's teaching through Paul means they have to change who they are, and they don't want to.
 
I questioned him on that since he kept saying, "prove to me where Jesus said that God wrote the Bible," and he never answers. He goes off on another issue. I think the guy is extremely stubborn in his ways and refuses to accept proof, even when it's given to him. It's sad really.

Here's the thing..
Where you are at now with this fellow...

All you are doing is wrangling... Nothing you are going to say, no "Proof" will be good enough.... The thing to do is to stop arguing about it. Don't worry about giving proof - he will reject it.

It's not your job to beat him into submission.... You can't force him to see.... Only God can open his eyes.... and it sounds like the fellow clearly does not want his eyes to be opened.

Thanks
 
Does he cite any teachings of Paul that he says does not agree with Jesus' teaching? If he can't explain why he believes this way without details, then he is just belligerent about it and cannot be reasoned with.
 
Here's the thing..
Where you are at now with this fellow...

All you are doing is wrangling... Nothing you are going to say, no "Proof" will be good enough.... The thing to do is to stop arguing about it. Don't worry about giving proof - he will reject it.

It's not your job to beat him into submission.... You can't force him to see.... Only God can open his eyes.... and it sounds like the fellow clearly does not want his eyes to be opened.

Thanks
Yea, I have stopped replying to him. I just wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were on it. It's something (questioning if Paul was a false teacher) that I just never had heard before. It is still boggling my mind. :) Thanks!
 
Does he cite any teachings of Paul that he says does not agree with Jesus' teaching? If he can't explain why he believes this way without details, then he is just belligerent about it and cannot be reasoned with.
He can't be reasoned with. One thing he cited was that Paul taught that Jesus sacrificed himself for us but his argument was that Jesus never claimed that. I quoted to him John 10:11 which states, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep." He just claimed that Jesus never said he was to die and be a sacrifice for our sins. He basically just didn't listen or is claiming that John was a liar.
 
What is really insane to me is that if Paul was a false teacher then why do all the earliest church leaders who wrote (most of whom were either themselves taught by the Apostles or by those the Apostles taught and appointed...like Peter and John...) endorse Paul and quote or infer from his works? And I mean all of them...I can supply examples if he would like....
 
What is really insane to me is that if Paul was a false teacher then why do all the earliest church leaders who wrote (most of whom were either themselves taught by the Apostles or by those the Apostles taught and appointed...like Peter and John...) endorse Paul and quote or infer from his works? And I mean all of them...I can supply examples if he would like....
I tried explaining that to him. I would understand (slightly) his reasoning if he didn't hold the 12 disciples up to such high regard but he holds them to such high regard but still thinks Paul was a false teacher. It makes absolutely no sense.
 
I tried explaining that to him. I would understand (slightly) his reasoning if he didn't hold the 12 disciples up to such high regard but he holds them to such high regard but still thinks Paul was a false teacher. It makes absolutely no sense.

perhaps he would give you (us) some of the reasoning for his conclusions?
 
I questioned him on that since he kept saying, "prove to me where Jesus said that God wrote the Bible," and he never answers. He goes off on another issue. I think the guy is extremely stubborn in his ways and refuses to accept proof, even when it's given to him. It's sad really.

Just pray for him, Nathan; and ask God for wisdom and opportunities to share with this person, when his heart is ready to hear. I think it is our prayers for people that helps to "plow" the stony places in their hearts and prepares them for the seeds of the Word.
 
I didn't like in Galatians where it calls hatred a sin, but Jesus says that if you don't hate your parents, brethren, your wife and your own life also you cannot be his disciple.
 
I didn't like in Galatians where it calls hatred a sin, but Jesus says that if you don't hate your parents, brethren, your wife and your own life also you cannot be his disciple.

I think what Jesus meant, Laeomis, was that we will often be called to detach ourselves from our family in order to follow Him. Our unsaved family members often want us to continue old ways of relating to them because they get uncomfortable when the Holy Spirit transforms our lives and we don't respond the same old ways. It is often them who will push us away. At that point, we are to let them go and continue to choose Christ over them. We can still love them, pray for them, and as they let us, we can witness to them. But there is often a division between us and them which Jesus likens to hatred. I speak from experience, but years have passed for my family and me and we are on a much mellower ground today.
 
Nathan,
There is an old saying "The proof of the Pudding is in the eating"

Paul was a student of Gamaliel, a very learned and influential Pharisee. (trivia)

You might find this an interesting read in connection with Paul's authenticity as an Apostle.

Acts 5:33. When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them.
Acts 5:34. But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.
Acts 5:35. And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men.
Acts 5:36. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
Acts 5:37. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
Acts 5:38. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail;
Acts 5:39. but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" So they took his advice,
Acts 5:40. and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

So for me the punch line would be:
Acts 5:38. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail;
Acts 5:39. but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"
Though this was in connection with Peter et.al., I'd say if Paul was not sent by God, after 2000 or so years, we would know it.
This principle may be a useful refutation of the allegation that Paul was a false teacher/Apostle.
 
Dear Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, I am new to this forum but I have been praying for an out come to my situation. My wife and her mother went to Italy to see relatives over six weeks but two weeks of their stay my wife had an affair with a man she met on Facebook in witch he took her to Norway. It was only when I brought her back from the airport that I wanted to see photos she took of her visit that this man's face came up on messages that I read all their lustful desires for each other,and when I confronted her she confessed to the whole affair and her feelings for this man. Well I was shattered, and felt betrayed and I have two teenage kids. I don't know wether to kick her out or forgive her because I still love her,but she has changed towards me and I just can't understand that theres no conviction. Sorry to bring this in to this forum,but in a Christian point of view what should I do!
 
Dear Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, I am new to this forum but I have been praying for an out come to my situation. My wife and her mother went to Italy to see relatives over six weeks but two weeks of their stay my wife had an affair with a man she met on Facebook in witch he took her to Norway. It was only when I brought her back from the airport that I wanted to see photos she took of her visit that this man's face came up on messages that I read all their lustful desires for each other,and when I confronted her she confessed to the whole affair and her feelings for this man. Well I was shattered, and felt betrayed and I have two teenage kids. I don't know wether to kick her out or forgive her because I still love her,but she has changed towards me and I just can't understand that theres no conviction. Sorry to bring this in to this forum,but in a Christian point of view what should I do!

Viking that is crushing news! I will be praying for your family. Is your wife Christian? Please don't do anything impulsive or make major decisions at this time!
 
Viking that is crushing news! I will be praying for your family. Is your wife Christian? Please don't do anything impulsive or make major decisions at this time!

I as well hate to here such news. Cloud gave you good advice. Pray and ask God for direction and then begin the process of talking to your wife.
You should realize rather quickly whether she is of the opinion of staying married to you or not.

I hope that you can get through this challenge in your life especially for the sake of your children.
 

Glomung

Account Closed
I didn't like in Galatians where it calls hatred a sin, but Jesus says that if you don't hate your parents, brethren, your wife and your own life also you cannot be his disciple.

You need to be very careful about taking some English translations too seriously. Context is IMPORTANT.
Jesus never said to hate your parents. The point is that if you do not treat your wordly life as being unimportant you cannot have the
discipline necessary to be His disciple.
 
You must understand that ancient Hebrew Rabbinics speaks almost in hyperbole (the extreme) in order to bring to mind the appropriate contrast. Jesus was not only Messiah but a Rabbi speaking to Hebrew hearers. This is like when Paul says there is none righteous no not one. Paul knows full well there are some righteous because God has said so. Then there are those who have been accounted righteous by God because of their faith. Therefore Paul is not saying what it appears to say in modern English. He is saying that can deserve being right with God by their own good deeds. There is none who can boast this. All have sinned and fallen short.

So when Jesus says one must hate their mother and father He is not saying to actually hate them (for that would be against the very command He himself gave to Moses). He is saying that all and every one must take second place to Him. Is that so hard to understand? The Command of God says you shall not put any gods before me...when God is first and all others second, then you have the right perspective on relationship. My wife has God first if you give her an ultimatum of either God or me, she will kick me to the curb in a moments time (same with me...God is first and she second...and we love each other and have been together since 1976)....

Because God is first we have and can truly know how to love one another...if any other comes before God then we are in danger and putting them in danger. What happens in this world counts little in light of eternity. So a Peter leaves his wife and goes to preach and teach and dies for his faith in Christ....he and his wive's reward is so great in the kingdom you cannot even fathom it (making it all worth every temporary pain and sorrow experienced in the flesh)...
 
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