The Basics Of Overcoming Satan

Sal said:
Once the devil realized that, he went after Job. Everything that then happened was ti pressure Job into cursing God but Job didn't. A young preacher came to help straighten things out and Job stepped back inti faith and the blessing came back into operation destroying the curse .
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great Job.

Satan knew though, you have to look at it from God's and Satans perspective. We don't see the conversation we see two spiritual beings. God watching Satan, Watching Job, Satan came only because he knew he had a place.

Satan is a liar though............... God, you put your hands on Job and he will bless you. (Barak hebrew for bless or Salute back) Satan was telling God to harm Job, God say look stupid, He is in your hands, you know that, don't touch him and later............

God says, you keep trying to get me to harm Job with no cause. There is no reason to do this to Job, but He is in your hand, don't kill him.

Job did not learn a blessed thing but blame God through the whole thing. That is what Elihu Warned Job about, He claps his hands against God.

Job already tells us how the devil got a place, we see it with his sacrifice with his kids, the day Satan struck by which He had place.

Awesome Sal................

Anyone that really knows God, would have never suspected him in the first place of committing such horrible acts against his own.
He would break his word and so many scriptures if God did Give the devil permission. It was not permission, it was boundaries set by a place already taken.
 
I think in many ways you're making a few assumptions about my own beliefs when all I'm putting forward is what God's Word actually says. Interpretation of the English translations of the scriptures needs to be carried out with checking the original Hebrew meanings in the OT and Greek and Aramaic for the NT to arrive at conclusions like the sifting of Peter. Only then can you see plainly what a text like the sifting of Peter means. The account in Job especially the first chapter is abundantly clear of both God's and Satan's conversation. The plain meaning of scripture cannot be viewed with opinion, it needs to be a true study to arrive at an understanding, even if that understanding is something we don't like. The God of the Age of the Law (Moses - the cross) was dealing with mankind under a different dispensation to the one we now live in, the dispensation of grace. The OT and NT need to be viewed and coorectly interpreted in those ways. The command from the Lord in the text of Joshua again is abundantly clear in both the Hebrew and the English, God gave the command and Joshua carried it out. These times were brutal and God's method of deailing with sin was different to what we live in the NT, the old ways were stoning and putting to death, the NT is Christ having taken our punishment. Again, the original Hebrew and Greek texts need to be consulted on any verse within the scriptures especially the more difficult doctrines. This is the Word of God we are discussing and God's Word is final, remember Satan in the Garden of Eden and the temptation of Jesus involved him twisting something God said or taking a verse out of context, showing us true scripture interpretation is essential to truth. God bless Michael....
 
Sal said:
I have just finished reading 'The Blessing of The Lord' and it tells that Job as blessed as he was stepped out of faith into fear over worry that his children were sinning and would make burnt offerings on a continual basis. Job opened the door to the devil by failing to trust God.He made hi sacrifices out of fear and unbelief rather than in faith. Quote 'Instead of having God's faithfulness on his mind while he was making sacrifices, he had the curse on his mind...it eventually generated such terror in his life that he said "The thing which i greatly feared is come upon me, and that which i was afraid of is come unto me. I was not in safety, neither had i rest, neither was i quiet; yet trouble came". If Job had been in faith where his children were concerned, he would have made one sacrifice for them and said "Father, i'm giving all my care of my children over on You.From this moment..i'll never worry about them again.You said You'd take care of them and i believe You..." '

'When the devil brought Job's situation before The Lord, he didn't pick up on all that. All he knew was that the blessing was on him(a 'hedge around him')..He wanteded his hands on it and spoke to God- (in Job 1:9-12).'

The devil wanted Job to curse God, he already worked on Job to get him thinking that his children were cursing God. Job's wife told him to curse God. The devil knew that if Job cursed God, tje hedge around him would fall, he'd lose the blessing and the devil could steal everything he had.

Job didn't do that. He made other mistakes but never cursed God. God didn't say to the devil, "Here, i put Job in your hands.Do whatever you want to him".

God wasn't about to stretch out His hand against Job. He never agreed to the devil's suggestion. What He said to the devil was, "Behold, he is already in your hand". Behold means to look and see. Wake up and pay attention.

Job had already opened the door to the devil. God just told the devil the truth. Job had let down his hedge of protection with his own fear. He had already put himself into the devil's hand. God didn't lie about that as much as He loved Job.

Once the devil realized that, he went after Job. Everything that then happened was ti pressure Job into cursing God but Job didn't. A young preacher came to help straighten things out and Job stepped back inti faith and the blessing came back into operation destroying the curse .
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Again Sal much of what I've read of your statements seem to come from an opinion and viewpoint rather than taking the plain meaning of the texts. You seem to be reading between the lines, God said Job was righteous and upright and there was none like him. The event in Job concours with Peter's sifting. Again these teachings I've presented are from years of study and taking into account what the original Hebrew texts foreshow. When these methods are employed to discern scripture the Holy ghost reveals to us the truth, it's the only way to arrive at conclusions.
 
MichaelH said:
great Job.

Satan knew though, you have to look at it from God's and Satans perspective. We don't see the conversation we see two spiritual beings. God watching Satan, Watching Job, Satan came only because he knew he had a place.

Satan is a liar though............... God, you put your hands on Job and he will bless you. (Barak hebrew for bless or Salute back) Satan was telling God to harm Job, God say look stupid, He is in your hands, you know that, don't touch him and later............

God says, you keep trying to get me to harm Job with no cause. There is no reason to do this to Job, but He is in your hand, don't kill him.

Job did not learn a blessed thing but blame God through the whole thing. That is what Elihu Warned Job about, He claps his hands against God.

Job already tells us how the devil got a place, we see it with his sacrifice with his kids, the day Satan struck by which He had place.

Awesome Sal................

Anyone that really knows God, would have never suspected him in the first place of committing such horrible acts against his own.
He would break his word and so many scriptures if God did Give the devil permission. It was not permission, it was boundaries set by a place already taken.
Click to expand...

I think again you seem to be missing the point of true scripture interpretation, the plain meaning of the text shows the conversation unfold but again no one seems to able to explain the Satan's desire to sift Peter like wheat which he was evidently given to do...
 
What would you guys say to the fact that God did actually create Satan, that he knew Satan would fall, tempt mankind to sin. Left him to roam the earth attacking. Why would the spirit have driven Christ out to the wilderness to be tempted, why will Satan, the false prophet and the antichrist rise during the tribulation, why would God bind Satan for a thousand years then loose him again at the battle of Gog and Magog?
 
christianbacktobasics said:
What would you guys say to the fact that God did actually create Satan, that he knew Satan would fall, tempt mankind to sin. Left him to roam the earth attacking. Why would the spirit have driven Christ out to the wilderness to be tempted, why will Satan, the false prophet and the antichrist rise during the tribulation, why would God bind Satan for a thousand years then loose him again at the battle of Gog and Magog?
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Where is your scripture God knew Satan was going to be evil. I will give you one where Iniquity was "fOUND" IN HIM.
Jesus was tempted, in all ways and not a High priest who can not understand our infirmities. We don't have to because He did.
where is your Scripture!!!!!
Scripture only!!!

christianbacktobasics said:
I think in many ways you're making a few assumptions about my own beliefs when all I'm putting forward is what God's Word actually says. Interpretation of the English translations of the scriptures needs to be carried out with checking the original Hebrew meanings in the OT and Greek and Aramaic for the NT to arrive at conclusions like the sifting of Peter. Only then can you see plainly what a text like the sifting of Peter means. The account in Job especially the first chapter is abundantly clear of both God's and Satan's conversation. The plain meaning of scripture cannot be viewed with opinion, it needs to be a true study to arrive at an understanding, even if that understanding is something we don't like.
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fine, Hebrew whatever........... Satan said Job would "Bless" you to your face. Not curse, you can thank our translators for that. Barak is a hebrew word that means to salute back, to bless back. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Job did exactly that.
Jesus saw Satan come to get Peter, Jesus said I will pray your faith would hold. Peter did mess up, but it was made right later.


I already told you not to mix the heathen with the covenant people of God. I also showed you the heathen has no protection from God.

However, God said............I will be patient.

58 Times to be not afraid.
48 times to fear not.
Take no thought, be of good courage, be not dismayed.

Old and New Testament.

God said you pick, to be blessed or be cursed. You pick, life or death........... Pick life and your kids will live.
they did not enter in because of unbelief. They picked the curse, they choose death.

Job would have had to pick, by saying and/or Action. You don't change spiritual laws, never.

58 fear not
48 be not afraid.
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Thou shalt not kill is mentioned twice. Murder, murderers are mentioned 9 times.

Fear Not mentioned 58 Times.

If Job murdered someone and lost his kids, you would not be here rambling on and on about nothing. yes, we see what Job did.

I told you Job told us what Happened, You think I Lied? If I say it, it's normally so, with lots of scripture to back it up.

For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
(Job 3:25)

What come upon on Job?? What happened to Job??? do we just break Spiritual Law and everything be OK, really? That how it works?

What?? Happened to Job? What was Satan's theme to Job...... You curse God.. You know what happens boy... Your kids are cursing God Job, their gonna die... their gonna die.... You will curse God Job... You will, The wife said Curse God why hold onto your integrity?

You don't see the theme? You have no idea how the enemy operates? Your a Pastor right? You don't see this in peoples lives?

Be careful of how you accuse God, Your talking about my Father. God said it was without cause, now believe him.

Want to talk about Pauls thorn next? Jacobs hip? Jesus only healed one at the pool? Paul left Trophy sick? God kills, makes alive? God makes evil? God killed David's baby with sickness?
God is never the problem, nor does he hurt his children.
 
No problem. I have no issue with your sermons at all. I think though where it concerns permission could be down to how we interpret permission perhaps. I , as a baby in Christ certainly do not want to come across as i am in didagreement with a pastor , oh no no no. P.s I'm trying to think whether i've heard you before . When i used to have premier radio i enjoyed listening to back to basics among others . Is christisn back to basics connected to back to basics on premier radio?
christianbacktobasics said:
Hello Sal, I just read that last comment of mine back to myself and I must apologise, it did come across rather blunt so apologies.
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MichaelH said:
Where is your scripture God knew Satan was going to be evil. I will give you one where Iniquity was "fOUND" IN HIM.
Jesus was tempted, in all ways and not a High priest who can not understand our infirmities. We don't have to because He did.
where is your Scripture!!!!!
Scripture only!!!



fine, Hebrew whatever........... Satan said Job would "Bless" you to your face. Not curse, you can thank our translators for that. Barak is a hebrew word that means to salute back, to bless back. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Job did exactly that.
Jesus saw Satan come to get Peter, Jesus said I will pray your faith would hold. Peter did mess up, but it was made right later.


I already told you not to mix the heathen with the covenant people of God. I also showed you the heathen has no protection from God.

However, God said............I will be patient.

58 Times to be not afraid.
48 times to fear not.
Take no thought, be of good courage, be not dismayed.

Old and New Testament.

God said you pick, to be blessed or be cursed. You pick, life or death........... Pick life and your kids will live.
they did not enter in because of unbelief. They picked the curse, they choose death.

Job would have had to pick, by saying and/or Action. You don't change spiritual laws, never.

58 fear not
48 be not afraid.
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Thou shalt not kill is mentioned twice. Murder, murderers are mentioned 9 times.

Fear Not mentioned 58 Times.

If Job murdered someone and lost his kids, you would not be here rambling on and on about nothing. yes, we see what Job did.

I told you Job told us what Happened, You think I Lied? If I say it, it's normally so, with lots of scripture to back it up.

For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
(Job 3:25)

What come upon on Job?? What happened to Job??? do we just break Spiritual Law and everything be OK, really? That how it works?

What?? Happened to Job? What was Satan's theme to Job...... You curse God.. You know what happens boy... Your kids are cursing God Job, their gonna die... their gonna die.... You will curse God Job... You will, The wife said Curse God why hold onto your integrity?

You don't see the theme? You have no idea how the enemy operates? Your a Pastor right? You don't see this in peoples lives?

Be careful of how you accuse God, Your talking about my Father. God said it was without cause, now believe him.

Want to talk about Pauls thorn next? Jacobs hip? Jesus only healed one at the pool? Paul left Trophy sick? God kills, makes alive? God makes evil? God killed David's baby with sickness?
God is never the problem, nor does he hurt his children.
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God knows everything from beginning to end though even though it was Lucifer's iniquity that made him fall.
 
Sal said:
God knows everything from beginning to end though even though it was Lucifer's iniquity that made him fall.
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Thank you Sal. I don't want to get into the thing about what God knows, don't know, election V.S Foreknowledge. You know Calvinist do not believe God Foreknew. God causes everything and is in control of everything. God only knows, because God planned it.

I am though 100% scripture only. I don't play games with the Word. If the Word says it, I believe it. If Job said it was Fear which is a spirit Paul tells us got him, then I believe it.

I will give you the scripture though.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

So this is God saying he Found iniquity in this perfect Angel he created. I personally can't accuse God of knowing ahead of time and saying he lied. That is just me though.

Your also close to the scripture God knows the end from the Beginning. My pastor said that in something I was hearing. Brother Keith Moore.

I will say that is not a scripture though. Here is the scripture.

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
(Isa 46:10-11)

This is not knowing something, this is causing something. If God spoke it, then It comes to pass.

His counsel shall stand, something He planned and spoke. Not something He just used some fortune telling abilities and suddenly got a clue as to what would happen.

Thank you for your defense of God. If you ever get involved in healing ministry, You have to undo all the damage done by those before that laid a broken foundation and Job is one of those things that need fixed.
 
I get your point and that's fair. I can't get too caught up in it all and debate anything because i don't know it all and i got a little tiredness in my head. Catch up soon i'm sure.
 
Sal said:
I get your point and that's fair. I can't get too caught up in it all and debate anything because i don't know it all and i got a little tiredness in my head. Catch up soon i'm sure.
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We are all learning right? That is a Calvinist V.S Armanist Debate.
One believes God predestines everything and in control of everything. Man does not have free will.
One Believes God Foreknows everything, and man has a free will, though God already knows the outcome of everything despite the free will.

This one has been battled over longer than you and I have been alive.

be blessed.
 
MichaelH said:
We are all learning right? That is a Calvinist V.S Armanist Debate.
One believes God predestines everything and in control of everything. Man does not have free will.
One Believes God Foreknows everything, and man has a free will, though God already knows the outcome of everything despite the free will.

This one has been battled over longer than you and I have been alive.

be blessed.
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I am of the one where God foreknows everything and that man has free will etc.
 
Sal said:
I am of the one where God foreknows everything and that man has free will etc.
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Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

I never looked at this...... God forms the spirit in man? That means makes the spirit. Ummmm. I had always been taught that God created us in heaven then sent us in a body. Anyway.

My take is this.

If God foreknows, at what point does he Foreknow?

Now he said I knew Jeremiah in the womb, I have ordained him a prophet. So God knows Jeremiah, and God's plan was to make him a Prophet.

This is a plan of God for a man, right in the Womb. One would assume God would have a plan for all the spirits he put in mans body.

If the plan was hashed in the Womb, does man have to follow that plan?

Jesus said, Many are called, few are chosen. Many don't take heed to their call and plan it seems. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

So, If God foreknows the man when putting the man in the body, but the man ends up in Hell. Then is this foreknowledge or is this predestination like Calvinist believe?

Knowing something then acting on what you know is not foreknowledge anymore, it becomes something you cause.

Foreknowledge tells us that if I hit that light switch, a light comes on. Just knowing that don't make the light come on though, we have to hit the switch.

I can have foreknowledge by my great Wisdom that my car will run out of gas before getting to Work. My gas gauge says so. If I start off for work without stopping to get gas, is that Great Foreknowledge, or did I cause myself to run out of gas.

Doing something you know will fail, is no longer foreknowledge, but causing.

So, for God to have Foreknowledge, he would have to be like a fortune teller and randomly drop men on the planet then look and see what each man would end up doing.

Otherwise it's not foreknowledge but God causing.

If God knew Adam would sin but still dropped Adam in the Garden anyway, then God caused many years of death and curse. Jesus said he is not the God of the dead, and it was Adam's sin, not God that caused the Curse.

Then the other choice would be God elects and predestines, but then we have to remove everything concerning faith because someone's faith does not change God's election.
Man must do what God predestined man to do.

You see how crazy this can get?

Has to be another answer somewhere.

Be blessed.
 
I believe God had a good plan for each and every one of us. As christians we are ti fight the good fight of faith and save souls. The devil has blinded and deceived many and the devil is working to take ss many souls as he can to hell.God's plan for us is not for anyone to go to hell but man has free will. "I have set before you life and death blessings and curses" Jesus told us to "choose life" so that our joy may be full. We are to reach out to as many people as we van bringing them to know our Lord Jesus. Whether they accept or not is down to them. But we are to do our part in spreading the gospel. We do so because God wants us to help save souls for His Kingdom. All i know is that His plans for us are of good and not evil but we choose , we send outselves to hell or we choose to accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour. This is the spiritual war that is between good and evil.
 
We are a vessel to be used by God . There are souls out there who need to hear of the good news of salvation. People havn't even heard of Jesus. God wants to use us to reach these people in all corners of the earth. People will accept and we can be that person to lead them to Jesus. The ones who don't would at least have been given the opportunity.
 
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