The Godhead of the Lord Jesus

You of course have every right to your opinion, but maybe reading what Apostle John about sin might just change your opinion.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

A Spiritual Christian is one who has the indwelling of God, and has been begotten by God. John tells us such a person can’t sin.

Also Paul told us how it is that God made it so one would not sin.

(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”

Then there is scripture that tells us if one who has been given the knowledge of the truth, and deliberately sins then there is no repentance for them.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies--------“

This is my understanding about sin, and righteousness, and this understanding I believe was given to me personally by our Lord and God Jesus.

There is no reason that you have to believe my understanding, but it may be hard to totally ignore the scripture which has been quoted by me.
Johnlove~
Do you ever sin? Have you ever sinned since you have come to Christ? Our flesh sins, but our spirits do not. We struggle against the lusts of the flesh daily...with failures at times. But I ask you again...is there no sin in your life today? Because it seems to me you are implying you have no sin.
 

Johnlove

Inactive
Johnlove~
Do you ever sin? Have you ever sinned since you have come to Christ? Our flesh sins, but our spirits do not. We struggle against the lusts of the flesh daily...with failures at times. But I ask you again...is there no sin in your life today? Because it seems to me you are implying you have no sin.
Jesus proclaimed me clean as of about forty years ago. Know that I am eighty years old.

I was a Catholic who went to mass and Communion every day. I always did everything to not sin.

Yet the devil/sin always happened.

Jesus started to teach me about him, and had me begin to live his Word.

Jesus/Holy Spirit took over my life. I was asked of course if I would give my life to Jesus.

After Jesus proclaimed me clean, God kept me free from sin. I have been sin free for forty years.
 
Johnlove,

I must say that I think I agree with C1oudwatch3r. It is impossible to be free from sin, but you have a wonderful point. That Jesus has cleansed us. I am half-Catholic and I think there is common ground between your view and C1oudwatch3r's view.

You sin, but then are cleansed of sin- therefore sin free.
 

Johnlove

Inactive
Johnlove,

I must say that I think I agree with C1oudwatch3r. It is impossible to be free from sin, but you have a wonderful point. That Jesus has cleansed us. I am half-Catholic and I think there is common ground between your view and C1oudwatch3r's view.

You sin, but then are cleansed of sin- therefore sin free.
No! That is not true. I do not sin, because I do as the Holy Spirit tells me. The Holy Spirit gives me the grace to never disobey God.

(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”
 
I am very sure you have not broken any of the 10 commandments, as only God, Jesus Christ, and Mary have never sinned. And I am very sure that you have at least once in your life, thought about something that God would not approve of.
 
I my friend am suggesting nothing whatsoever. I simply stated my opinion from YOUR own words.

You said ......"The fact that they are called the Father and the Son, shows that they are not co-equal".

The term "Godhead" is found three times in the King James Version: ; ; . Three different Greek words are used, but each one means “divinity.” It is important for us to understand from the outset that God exists in three Persons. The concept of the Godhead is that God is one yet God is three

Deut.6:4 says............
“Hear, O Israel! The LORD our God, the LORD is one!”

The unity of the Godhead cannot be questioned. It can be misunderstood or not understood at all. Scripture tells us that God does not consist of parts. He is one. But Scripture reveals that there are, in that one divine essence, three eternal distinctions. Those distinctions seem best described as Persons, known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three have identical attributes, however, and therefore they are one—not merely one in mind and purpose, but one in substance. To possess all the same attributes is to be one in essential nature. The three Persons of the Godhead possess identical attributes. They are one in substance and one in essence, and therefore they are one God.

But the Holy Spirit is also part of the Godhead. His name is “the Spirit of God” ().

He, too, possesses the attributes of deity and performs the works of deity. While He is the Spirit who proceeds from the Father ().

He is at the same time called “the Spirit of Christ” ().

He is coequal with both the Father and the Son. The Apostle Peter clearly viewed Him as God when he said to Ananias, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men, but to God” (). If the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all bear the names of God, possess the attributes of God, and perform the works of God, then there is no alternative but to acknowledge that our one God exists in three Persons.
Nowadays more and more in the churches are people who says that Jesus is not God, but the Father alone is God. It is true that the Father is God, but actually the Bible teaches that Jesus is also God. In this writing I bring out that how the Bible tells that the Father is God, and Jesus is God and how this can be true so as there is not any conflict in the Bible. This is a very important subject, because it touches very deeply the foundation of salvation. Test and discern my teaching with Word of God by prayer.



http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/GodheadoftheLordJesus.html
The reasons why is it's becoming more "popular" is because the people who having ears to hear are finally beginning to hear when they do the full search of scripture. Godhead is mentioned three times in KJV and yes meaning godlike, divine=godlike, and in both G2305 and G2320 say (abstractly) divinity yes it says abstractly before both divinities. So my point is Godhead means godlike. Jesus was godlike because he was having God manifest through him. God manifests through us all but we claim ourselves as man just like Jesus did Son of Man. Also, fun fact I learned about John 20:28 where Thomas says "My Lord and My God" we hdan't translated it like how it was is original Greek. In koine Greek this becomes and idiom which makes it into actually saying "my godly Lord". Same thing in this

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
This doesn't mean we get two individual things. It becomes an idiom in greek which means "with the firey Holy Ghost"

Make sense now? I'm done with this debate though because I already made a thread that got locked for some reason 2 days ago that's okay.
Remember Prove all things that includes verses that either sound unitarian or trinitarian. Understand what words in the original greek or hebrew meant it helps.

If Jesus apparently is God and man then numbers 29:13 i guess shouldn't exist.

19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? God is saying in blue what he absolutely is not. And then in red God knows that a man who knows the truth knows now that he has lied to himself and then repents because he finally figures out who God is. This is exactly what I did when I searched through the scriptures. I found that through a doctrine of man that i learned i believed the lie. But once I learned who God and Jesus really was I repented

You know what this is everyone. A prophecy for people who believe that God is also a man AKA Jesus Christ??: that he should lie. neither the son of man AKA Jesus is a Son of Man, that he should repent. Right there God is saying that people who are saying he's a man which that is what Trinitarians claim Jesus is "God part and man part" are lieing to themselves. NEITHER is he the son of man. Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God True BUT also the Son of Man Also True. But God is neither the son of man. and if you truly see that this makes sense God says, that he should repent. God is predicting that the people who are seeing this were lieing to themselves and being led to repentance.

God is good.

Context everyone keep searching the scriptures. God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is. Trinitarians say that it's complex meaning the understanding of the Trinity. Unitarians see through true search through the scriptures and by the help of the Spirit to understand scripture that it's absolute.



God Bless
 
God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is.

Let's examine scripture to discuss this statement.

This seems to be the logic progression you're using to arrive at your conclusion:

premise 1. God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is.
premise 2. All scripture teaches Truth
Inference: Therefore, if an interpretation of scripture suggests that an aspect of God is beyond human comprehension, that interpretation is incorrect, and an interpretation that fits within our own realm of comprehension is more valid.

I propose to you that your first premise can be challenged through scripture.

Job 36:26 Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Because of what scripture tells us about the nature of God, it's very difficult for me to accept this notion you seem to be suggesting that if someone claims some aspect of God is beyond our comprehension, then it must not be true. If we really believe that God is greater than us, wouldn't it be rational to accept that aspects of His nature will exceed the scope of our comprehension? Should we really expect that the nature of God should "make sense" to us? If you say "yes," do the scriptures teach that, or do they instead teach that God is greater than our comprehension?

Paul writes: 1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Should it surprise us, then, since not all Truth has yet been given to us, that some aspects of God should remain a mystery?

So I propose to you instead:

premise 1. All scripture teaches Truth
premise 2. It's rational to accept that God may not be fully comprehensible to us
Inference: If the scriptures seem to teach something that we don't comprehend, it may simply be that we can't comprehend it, but it's still rational to believe it.

Now, friend, I am not attempting to "prove" you wrong. What I am suggesting is that you have accepted the statement "God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is" as infallible truth, and you use that statement as a premise to reach certain inferences in your scriptural interpretations. However, if that statement is not what the scriptures teach about God, it calls any conclusion made using that premise into question. So I am asking you to re-examine your conclusions, discarding the premise that "God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is," on the basis that such a belief is not what scriptures teach us about God.

Incidentally, even though I believe that we cannot fully understand God, I also believe that the scriptures to provide sufficient explanation for this particular matter, which I can show you if you are interested.

Also, because you seem to be implying that the reason we (Trinitarians) believe that Jesus is God is because scripture has been mistranslated, a word of warning about "the original Greek/Hebrew definitions:" Understanding a dead, ancient language takes a lifetime of study. It's far more complex than simply knowing "the definition" that comes from a concordance. I suggest that you not be quite so quick to dismiss readings of scripture that do not match your own, based solely on "Understand[ing] what words in the original greek or hebrew meant." It is good to learn some Greek and Hebrew, though, primarily because the more you learn about it, the more you realize just how many factors impact on translation that extend beyond simple word definitions.
 
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Let's examine scripture to discuss this statement.

This seems to be the logic progression you're using to arrive at your conclusion:

premise 1. God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is.
premise 2. All scripture teaches Truth
Inference: Therefore, if an interpretation of scripture suggests that an aspect of God is beyond human comprehension, that interpretation is incorrect, and an interpretation that fits within our own realm of comprehension is more valid.

I propose to you that your first premise can be challenged through scripture.

Job 36:26 Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Because of what scripture tells us about the nature of God, it's very difficult for me to accept this notion you seem to be suggesting that if someone claims some aspect of God is beyond our comprehension, then it must not be true. If we really believe that God is greater than us, wouldn't it be rational to accept that aspects of His nature will exceed the scope of our comprehension? Should we really expect that the nature of God should "make sense" to us? If you say "yes," do the scriptures teach that, or do they instead teach that God is greater than our comprehension?

Paul writes: 1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Should it surprise us, then, since not all Truth has yet been given to us, that some aspects of God should remain a mystery?

So I propose to you instead:

premise 1. All scripture teaches Truth
premise 2. It's rational to accept that God may not be fully comprehensible to us
Inference: If the scriptures seem to teach something that we don't comprehend, it may simply be that we can't comprehend it, but it's still rational to believe it.

Now, friend, I am not attempting to "prove" you wrong. What I am suggesting is that you have accepted the statement "God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is" as infallible truth, and you use that statement as a premise to reach certain inferences in your scriptural interpretations. However, if that statement is not what the scriptures teach about God, it calls any conclusion made using that premise into question. So I am asking you to re-examine your conclusions, discarding the premise that "God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is," on the basis that such a belief is not what scriptures teach us about God.

Incidentally, even though I believe that we cannot fully understand God, I also believe that the scriptures to provide sufficient explanation for this particular matter, which I can show you if you are interested.

Also, because you seem to be implying that the reason we (Trinitarians) believe that Jesus is God is because scripture has been mistranslated, a word of warning about "the original Greek/Hebrew definitions:" Understanding a dead, ancient language takes a lifetime of study. It's far more complex than simply knowing "the definition" that comes from a concordance. I suggest that you not be quite so quick to dismiss readings of scripture that do not match your own, based solely on "Understand[ing] what words in the original greek or hebrew meant." It is good to learn some Greek and Hebrew, though, primarily because the more you learn about it, the more you realize just how many factors impact on translation that extend beyond simple word definitions.

Also, Roads, my son brought up something to me about the Strong's Concordance....(I don't know if this is correct or not; perhaps you can enlighten me?) My son said that the Strong's Concordance gives Greek translations that are based on a more MODERN interpretation/understanding of what those Greek words meant, than when they were originally written. Kind of like when we read the KJV (my personal favorite), some of the English words portray different concepts to us today, and we must study to see what those English words meant when THEY were written. So if this is true, that the Strong's Concordance gives MODERN interpretations of those Greek words, then we must study to discover what those Greek words meant when they were written in the Bible.
Like you said, we cannot become Greek scholars very quickly; and after learning the history of how the KJV was translated into English BY GREEK SCHOLARS, I trust and depend on the KJV for my authoritative source.
But...do you know whether or not the Strong's Concordance may be flawed Greek at times?
 
But...do you know whether or not the Strong's Concordance may be flawed Greek at times?

Well not that I'm an expert, but Strong's is basically a dictionary, so it has the same limitations of any dictionary: it can give you the denotation of words, but it can't provide an exhaustive list of all their possible connotations. It's not intended to be a translation tool, and it should not be used to replace translations. Sometimes translations do not seem to match the literal definition of a word because the translators have taken into account its broader cultural/linguistic context to decide on its most likely meaning.

For example, say you're reading a French account of a breakfast, and you run across the phrase "jaune coulant." If you use google translator to translate the phrase, you get "yellow flowing." This is accurate in terms of the literal definitions of those words. If you remember that a form of "coulant" can be used to refer to runny noses, you might, incorrectly, decide on a much more yucky translation. But if you know how the phrase is actually used in speech, you know it has to translate "runny yolk." Which is why when you're learning another language, a practical phrasebook is often more useful than a dictionary.

So you can make a real mess of translation if you're only using a dictionary, and you don't have any context for how that phrase/word is actually used in speech.
 
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Well not that I'm an expert, but Strong's is basically a dictionary, so it has the same limitations of any dictionary: it can give you the denotation of words, but it can't provide an exhaustive list of all their possible connotations. It's not intended to be a translation tool, and it should not be used to replace translations. Sometimes translations do not seem to match the literal definition of a word because the translators have taken into account its broader cultural/linguistic context to decide on its most likely meaning.

For example, say you're reading a French account of a breakfast, and you run across the phrase "jaune coulant." If you use google translator to translate the phrase, you get "yellow flowing." This is accurate in terms of the literal definitions of those words. If you remember that a form of "coulant" can be used to refer to runny noses, you might, incorrectly, decide on a much more yucky translation. But if you know how the phrase is actually used in speech, you know it has to translate "runny yolk." Which is why when you're learning another language, a practical phrasebook is often more useful than a dictionary.

So you can make a real mess of translation if you're only using a dictionary, and you don't have any context for how that phrase/word is actually used in speech.
Thank you~! That helps to clarify how to use the concordance.
 
The reasons why is it's becoming more "popular" is because the people who having ears to hear are finally beginning to hear when they do the full search of scripture. Godhead is mentioned three times in KJV and yes meaning godlike, divine=godlike, and in both G2305 and G2320 say (abstractly) divinity yes it says abstractly before both divinities. So my point is Godhead means godlike. Jesus was godlike because he was having God manifest through him. God manifests through us all but we claim ourselves as man just like Jesus did Son of Man. Also, fun fact I learned about John 20:28 where Thomas says "My Lord and My God" we hdan't translated it like how it was is original Greek. In koine Greek this becomes and idiom which makes it into actually saying "my godly Lord". Same thing in this

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
This doesn't mean we get two individual things. It becomes an idiom in greek which means "with the firey Holy Ghost"

Make sense now? I'm done with this debate though because I already made a thread that got locked for some reason 2 days ago that's okay.
Remember Prove all things that includes verses that either sound unitarian or trinitarian. Understand what words in the original greek or hebrew meant it helps.

If Jesus apparently is God and man then numbers 29:13 i guess shouldn't exist.

19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? God is saying in blue what he absolutely is not. And then in red God knows that a man who knows the truth knows now that he has lied to himself and then repents because he finally figures out who God is. This is exactly what I did when I searched through the scriptures. I found that through a doctrine of man that i learned i believed the lie. But once I learned who God and Jesus really was I repented

You know what this is everyone. A prophecy for people who believe that God is also a man AKA Jesus Christ??: that he should lie. neither the son of man AKA Jesus is a Son of Man, that he should repent. Right there God is saying that people who are saying he's a man which that is what Trinitarians claim Jesus is "God part and man part" are lieing to themselves. NEITHER is he the son of man. Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God True BUT also the Son of Man Also True. But God is neither the son of man. and if you truly see that this makes sense God says, that he should repent. God is predicting that the people who are seeing this were lieing to themselves and being led to repentance.

God is good.

Context everyone keep searching the scriptures. God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is. Trinitarians say that it's complex meaning the understanding of the Trinity. Unitarians see through true search through the scriptures and by the help of the Spirit to understand scripture that it's absolute.



God Bless

I am afraid that the root of the problem is your understanding of the Scriptures. With all due respect to you, your exergesis is very flawed and it is obviouse that you are working to make Scripture fit your ideas and opinions. What is what your understanding is so far off kilter.

Do good and be well and study hard! Blessings to you.
 

Johnlove

Inactive
Johnlove~
Do you ever sin? Have you ever sinned since you have come to Christ? Our flesh sins, but our spirits do not. We struggle against the lusts of the flesh daily...with failures at times. But I ask you again...is there no sin in your life today? Because it seems to me you are implying you have no sin.
From the time I gave my life to Jesus and he pronounced me clean, the Holy Spirit/Jesus has kept me free of sin. That was going on forty years now.
 
From the time I gave my life to Jesus and he pronounced me clean, the Holy Spirit/Jesus has kept me free of sin. That was going on forty years now.
So...you are saying that you literally do not sin today? Ever? Because the Bible says we are all sinners and if any man says he does not sin is lying.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 

Johnlove

Inactive
So...you are saying that you literally do not sin today? Ever? Because the Bible says we are all sinners and if any man says he does not sin is lying.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Read the following very carefully, because it seems that you failed to understand what John said.


(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liarand his word has no place in our lives.”


You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.


If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?


John later says:


(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”


John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.


Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”
 
I am afraid that the root of the problem is your understanding of the Scriptures. With all due respect to you, your exergesis is very flawed and it is obviouse that you are working to make Scripture fit your ideas and opinions. What is what your understanding is so far off kilter.

Do good and be well and study hard! Blessings to you.
If it's flawed then you need to prove to me how it's flawed not just say it's flawed. The trinity is flawed because there's never a true explanation of it in the Bible because it's not true. Whereas proving how God is only God and not Jesus is proven all over the Bible because it's the truth. The truth of who God is would not be some complex hidden understanding that we don't get! We as humans made it into something complex! The Old Testament is all about God proving that he alone is the true God and then Old Testament is also all about the Prophecy of His Son to come into the world and be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Never is it prophetically pointing that the Son is also God but he is Lord but not THE LORD. And if once again you say what I said is just flawed but not prove it with scripture then all it is is your opinion and not proving it with scripture which is truth.
 
The reasons why is it's becoming more "popular" is because the people who having ears to hear are finally beginning to hear when they do the full search of scripture. Godhead is mentioned three times in KJV and yes meaning godlike, divine=godlike, and in both G2305 and G2320 say (abstractly) divinity yes it says abstractly before both divinities. So my point is Godhead means godlike. Jesus was godlike because he was having God manifest through him. God manifests through us all but we claim ourselves as man just like Jesus did Son of Man. Also, fun fact I learned about John 20:28 where Thomas says "My Lord and My God" we hdan't translated it like how it was is original Greek. In koine Greek this becomes and idiom which makes it into actually saying "my godly Lord". Same thing in this

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
This doesn't mean we get two individual things. It becomes an idiom in greek which means "with the firey Holy Ghost"

Make sense now? I'm done with this debate though because I already made a thread that got locked for some reason 2 days ago that's okay.
Remember Prove all things that includes verses that either sound unitarian or trinitarian. Understand what words in the original greek or hebrew meant it helps.

If Jesus apparently is God and man then numbers 29:13 i guess shouldn't exist.

19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? God is saying in blue what he absolutely is not. And then in red God knows that a man who knows the truth knows now that he has lied to himself and then repents because he finally figures out who God is. This is exactly what I did when I searched through the scriptures. I found that through a doctrine of man that i learned i believed the lie. But once I learned who God and Jesus really was I repented

You know what this is everyone. A prophecy for people who believe that God is also a man AKA Jesus Christ??: that he should lie. neither the son of man AKA Jesus is a Son of Man, that he should repent. Right there God is saying that people who are saying he's a man which that is what Trinitarians claim Jesus is "God part and man part" are lieing to themselves. NEITHER is he the son of man. Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God True BUT also the Son of Man Also True. But God is neither the son of man. and if you truly see that this makes sense God says, that he should repent. God is predicting that the people who are seeing this were lieing to themselves and being led to repentance.

God is good.

Context everyone keep searching the scriptures. God would not make it a "complex" understanding of who he truly is. Trinitarians say that it's complex meaning the understanding of the Trinity. Unitarians see through true search through the scriptures and by the help of the Spirit to understand scripture that it's absolute.



God Bless

I'm trying not to be argumentative but this is a topic that I feel is worth debating. It is relatively easy to accept that Jesus was a man, since he ate, drank, wept, became tired, etc. Even after his resurrection he asked Thomas to touch his hands.

His deity is a more difficult concept, but I think the Bible teaches it. What about John 1, which says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Later, verse 14 explains, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Jesus himself said he came from heaven (John 3:13, John 6:62). He is described as the creator in Col. 1:16. Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30 (Maybe this could be interpreted, "I and the Father are of one essence" or something like that, but I still think it is a claim to equality with God. Otherwise why would the people have wanted to stone him?)

Finally, there is Isaiah 9:6, which says, "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
 
If it's flawed then you need to prove to me how it's flawed not just say it's flawed. The trinity is flawed because there's never a true explanation of it in the Bible because it's not true. Whereas proving how God is only God and not Jesus is proven all over the Bible because it's the truth. The truth of who God is would not be some complex hidden understanding that we don't get! We as humans made it into something complex! The Old Testament is all about God proving that he alone is the true God and then Old Testament is also all about the Prophecy of His Son to come into the world and be the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Never is it prophetically pointing that the Son is also God but he is Lord but not THE LORD. And if once again you say what I said is just flawed but not prove it with scripture then all it is is your opinion and not proving it with scripture which is truth.

No sir.....your own words have proven your thinking flawed and nothing I say is the problem. YOUR rejection of the Lord Jesus as God in the flesh is the root of your deception.
 
I'm trying not to be argumentative but this is a topic that I feel is worth debating. It is relatively easy to accept that Jesus was a man, since he ate, drank, wept, became tired, etc. Even after his resurrection he asked Thomas to touch his hands.

His deity is a more difficult concept, but I think the Bible teaches it. What about John 1, which says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Later, verse 14 explains, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Jesus himself said he came from heaven (John 3:13, John 6:62). He is described as the creator in Col. 1:16. Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30 (Maybe this could be interpreted, "I and the Father are of one essence" or something like that, but I still think it is a claim to equality with God. Otherwise why would the people have wanted to stone him?)

Finally, there is Isaiah 9:6, which says, "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

You sir are correct and there are man, many more Scriptures that teach us the deity of the Lord Jesus.

This is one of those teaching where if you miss it, it messes up every thing else that comes.
 
Read the following very carefully, because it seems that you failed to understand what John said.


(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liarand his word has no place in our lives.”


You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.


If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?


John later says:


(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”


John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.


Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.


(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”


(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

1 John 1:10
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Jer. 17:9, 10
"The heart is the most deceitful thing there is, and desperately wicked. No one can really know how bad it is! Only the Lord knows!"

Psalm 14:2, 3
"The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who are wise, who want to please God. But no, all have strayed away; all are rotten with sin. Not one is good, not one!"

Is. 64:5, 6.
"We are all infected and impure with sin. When we put on our prized robes of righteousness we find they are but filthy rags."

It should be the goal of every Christian to “sin no more,” although we recognize that, while we are in the flesh, we will still stumble and we will sin. (1 John 1:8).

God’s desire for each of us is to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16). We still sin, but sin is no longer a lifestyle choice (1 John 3:9–10). When we fail, we can come to God and ask forgiveness (1 John 1:9; 1 Peter 4:1–2). And if we are truly God’s children, He will correct us, disciplining us when we need it (Hebrews 12:6–11). His work is to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29).

But to say and believe that we do not sin after coming to Christ is an un-Biblical thought and has no basis in the Scriptures as far as I can tell.
 

Glomung

Account Closed
1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Matthew 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Again, Trinitarianism is the truth, that is what the Bible teaches. It is a derived doctrine rather than an explicit doctrine, but true nonetheless.
 
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