The Great Debate...

May 6, 2014
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Euphemia... I am reading other non-canonical writings for more enjoyment. It is enjoyable to read what these other writing say. We go where we are led. I always question everything, including myself. It helps me to be this way so I won't be led astray. The Gospel of Nicodemus is a good read. It goes along with the Bible. Same thing with Acta Pilate. I hope you understand.

Can I ask what do you believe? Have you read other books like The Purpose Driven Life, or The Late and Great Planet Earth? If so what makes what I am doing any different?
I see that you enjoy reading these extra-biblical texts, but what is your authority in matters of faith? Perhaps that is where the debate will begin and end?
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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Euphemia... I am reading other non-canonical writings for more enjoyment. It is enjoyable to read what these other writing say. We go where we are led. I always question everything, including myself. It helps me to be this way so I won't be led astray. The Gospel of Nicodemus is a good read. It goes along with the Bible. Same thing with Acta Pilate. I hope you understand.

Can I ask what do you believe? Have you read other books like The Purpose Driven Life, or The Late and Great Planet Earth? If so what makes what I am doing any different?
Caps are just my way of making a word STAND OUT....Nothing More... ; )
This may be enjoyable and fun however there are some deep consequences in doing so.
Now you may think I am going no place with this but if you will give me a minute or two I can show you what I am refering to. ; )

Now Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV
4.. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5.. One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism
6.. One God and Father of ALL, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
This alone tells me that I can take the written word of God for what it says. This also tells me I have no RIGHT to ever QUESTION what is written in HIS word.

Now then......Ephesians 1:17-19 KJV
17.. That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory, may give unto YOU the SPIRIT of WISDOM and REVELATION In The KNOWLEDGE of Him;
18.. The EYES of Your UNDERSTANDING being Enlightened; that ye MAY KNOW what is the HOPE of HIS CALLING, and what the RICHES of Glory of HIS INHERITANCE IN THE SAINTS.
19.. And what is the exceeding gresatness of HIS Powerto us-ward who BELIEVE, according to the working of Hisd mighty power

Now this tells me that through my Faith and BELIEF I can pray this, His Word and EXPECT HIm to answer me and if He answers me then I shall GAIN all that is written in His word. NO I did not say all at once or I would know it all BUT I am saying that through Him I not only CAN but WILL receive revelation Knowledge and Wisdom pertaining unto His written word.

Now I said most dangerous earlier and here is why.
We are told through out His written word to RENEW our Minds with His written word.
This reprograms our way of thinking and it begins to fill our Hearts with His word. Then we will be found walking in the Spirit and not walking in the lust of the Flesh..

Yes, Yes I know I still have not said why dangerous.........
Now then when you begin to put all this other writings in you, such as oh I do not believe this but I am curious to know how they think. Well you are planting other seeds within your Go9d seed and besides weeds growing up around the Word of God or Word seed.........
Now you got these other thoughts worming around in you and you are going to have to dig them out....Root them up and get rid of them....It is not ALWays THAT EASY TO DO.

Now I will read Some of the Hebrew and Greek and so forth but it is DIRECTLY related and connected to His written word.......

You began this thread with questions.........so I replied !!
Have a blessed week end
Jim
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch, as well as longer versions of Daniel and Esther. Those are a few.
I wonder how it is that they did not make it into the written word of God, I mean the written word of God is inspired and a revelation or revealed from God or Holy Spirit and BY Jesus our Christ....did man make the choice to remove them or not put them in or was it by Gods choice that they were not included ?
Just wondering !!
 
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Fish Catcher Jim

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1. What do you know about the history of your denomination?

I am non-denominational

2. Where does your denomination have its roots?

In Christ Jesus.

3. Does what they teach go along the lines of what is taught by Christ, Disciples, and Apostles?

Yes, all the time.

4. Where does it state in the scriptures that the Law has been nullified, or completely done away with?

Ephesians 2:14-16
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished (G2673 - katargeō ) in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Romans 10:4
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

Christ IS the end of the Law for righteousness for all who believe. The Law is abolished for those in Christ.

Romans 7:4-64
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered (G2673 - katargeō) from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

G2673 - katargeō is translated as both 'abolished' in Ephesians. 2:15 and as 'delivered' in Romans 7:6.

Ephesians 2

Colossians 2

5. What calendar do we follow? Is it God's calendar? Or is it the man made Gregorian Calendar?

Our day-to-day activities are marked by the Gregorian calendar, but God’ calendar is one we need to be made familiar with. It really doesn’t matter what calendar we live by. God is above it all.

6. What is the history of the holidays like Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, etc.

There are pagan roots for the celebration of these holidays, and many holidays that commemorate certain people deemed as saints are basically just as pagan. The only true holy days we should be remembering are Passover, and the day we remember the Lord’s resurrection.

7. What is the true Gospel? Is it though God? Or is it following what a man teaches us?

The true Gospel is the message of God’s grace and His righteousness supplied to us in the Person of Jesus Christ. It includes the message of a blessed hope and of the condemnation of those who reject it. We as human beings, changed by God’s grace, are the ones who deliver the gospel message to the world, enabled and empowered by Holy Spirit to do so.

8. Is God Triune? Or is He One like He reveals Himself as?

God is One, in Three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

9. Who is our enemy? What do we know about Satan, that Serpent of old?

Satan and our own flesh are our enemies. We know enough about Satan through God’s word and through experience to know that he is not as powerful as people claim. The true evil that we encounter more often than not is the human heart itself.

Jeremiah 17:9
9 “The human heart is the most deceitful of all things,
and desperately wicked.
Who really knows how bad it is?

10. Last question is this... Who am I in Christ? Am I walking, talking, and being a reflection of Him?

I am chosen by God (Ephesians 1:4)

I am adopted by God (Ephesians 1:5)

I am a child of God in His family (1 John 3:!)

I am seated in the heavenlies in Christ (Ephesians 2:6)

I am forgiven by God for all my sins (1 John 1:9)

I am reconciled to God, in Harmony with Him (Romans 5:10)

I am seen by God as holy, blameless above reproach (Colossians 1:21-22)

I am sealed with God's Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13)

I am called to accomplish God's purpose (Romans 8:28, 30)

I am a full citizen among God's people (Ephesians 2:19)

I am justified -- declared right in God's sight (Romans 5:1)

I am sanctified -- set apart by God's Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11)

I am redeemed -- bought with Christ's blood (Ephesians 1:7)

I am cleansed by Christ's blood for all my sin (1 John1:7)

I am heir of God and a joint-heir with Christ (Romans 8:16,17)

I am complete in Christ (Colossians 2:10)

I am an ambassador for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20)

I am the righteousness of God in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21)

I am being conformed to the character of Christ (Romans 8:29)


Thank you Lord, for giving me worth and letting me see I have purpose.
Amen Sister Euphemia !!
That was truly Inspired by our Lord and just berautiful !! Wow Thank You
.............heart n cross.jpeg
YOUR HEART IS FULL OF CHRIST
 
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Shalom to you...

I am writing this post to vent what is on my mind. I have been on a journey. A journey that causes friction with many of the people around me in my life. Trust me I am not doing this to cause such problems. As I have been reading and researching the scriptures and other lost writings, I have felt myself looking at the world for what it is. It is hard not to see that we are nothing but puppets, pawns, or sheep as it is stated in the Bible. Being controlled by false doctrines made by man. On here it is hard to see the person for who they are and they go about their daily lives. In turn it is easy to assume and throw assumptions at them without seeing the time and research into the subject.

So here is my debated questions...
1. What do you know about the history of your denomination?
2. Where does your denomination have its roots?
3. Does what they teach go along the lines of what is taught by Christ, Disciples, and Apostles?
4. Where does it state in the scriptures that the Law has been nullified, or completely done away with?
5. What calendar do we follow? Is it God's calendar? Or is it the man made Gregorian Calendar?
6. What is the history of the holidays like Christmas, Easter, and Halloween, etc.
7. What is the true Gospel? Is it though God? Or is it following what a man teaches us?
8. Is God Triune? Or is He One like He reveals Himself as?
9. Who is our enemy? What do we know about Satan, that Serpent of old?
10. Last question is this... Who am I in Christ? Am I walking, talking, and being a reflection of Him?

This just touches the surface of the questions I had, and have had answered in my life. Jesus says Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. We need to seek the truth and not follow the ways of the world. There is still time. AMEN
1. I don't really have a denomination, I go to whatever church teaches the truth.

2. Again, don't have a denomination.

3. I would hope so, otherwise it's false.

4. Everywhere in the New Testament. Christ fullfilled the law we could not keep and gave us his righteousness. We are righteous by faith, not by works of the law.

5. Does it matter? The reason you ask is probably your concern with the Sabbath I assume? Romans 14:5 "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind". Also, Christ IS our Sabbath rest.

6. Who knows, some of it is pagan some is Christian. It isn't a sin to celebrate them. I personally think it's all silly.

7. The True Gospel is that God saves sinners through his son Jesus Christ. Anyone and everyone who believes in him has eternal life. But, this faith comes from God by the power of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't come from us.

8. God is triune in the sense that the Father, Son, and Spirit are all seperate persons. But, God is one in the sense that they are all God, fully and completely.

9. Our enemy is Satan the angel who sinned. His goal is to send God's Chosen people to hell, but we know his efforts are futile. Sometimes God gives him the power to destroy and sow evil among people. He is a liar above all, and will spend eternity in hell.

10. In Christ you are a child of the Most High God. He has predestined you to glory and has purposed to love you as he loves Jesus for all eternity. On you he shows the riches of his Grace because although you are a sinner, Christ died for you. If you are a believer you have the Holy Spirit inside of you as a seal of your inheritance, he leads you into Truth and gives you the power to live a Godly life. Even so, you are in fallen flesh and struggle against sin. But, these sins have no power over your eternal identity in Christ.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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1. I don't really have a denomination, I go to whatever church teaches the truth.

2. Again, don't have a denomination.

3. I would hope so, otherwise it's false.

4. Everywhere in the New Testament. Christ fullfilled the law we could not keep and gave us his righteousness. We are righteous by faith, not by works of the law.

5. Does it matter? The reason you ask is probably your concern with the Sabbath I assume? Romans 14:5 "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind". Also, Christ IS our Sabbath rest.

6. Who knows, some of it is pagan some is Christian. It isn't a sin to celebrate them. I personally think it's all silly.

7. The True Gospel is that God saves sinners through his son Jesus Christ. Anyone and everyone who believes in him has eternal life. But, this faith comes from God by the power of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't come from us.

8. God is triune in the sense that the Father, Son, and Spirit are all seperate persons. But, God is one in the sense that they are all God, fully and completely.

9. Our enemy is Satan the angel who sinned. His goal is to send God's Chosen people to hell, but we know his efforts are futile. Sometimes God gives him the power to destroy and sow evil among people. He is a liar above all, and will spend eternity in hell.

10. In Christ you are a child of the Most High God. He has predestined you to glory and has purposed to love you as he loves Jesus for all eternity. On you he shows the riches of his Grace because although you are a sinner, Christ died for you. If you are a believer you have the Holy Spirit inside of you as a seal of your inheritance, he leads you into Truth and gives you the power to live a Godly life. Even so, you are in fallen flesh and struggle against sin. But, these sins have no power over your eternal identity in Christ.
Brother Number 9 is all wrong......
God will NOT ever and I will say it again.....GOD WILL NOT EVER give satan power to do anything in any ones life. God does not use satan as a tool or a teaching aid..
He has given us power over the devil and the authority over the devil. He has shown us in His word the way he operates.

People open the door to satan.....Your words can give satan right to enter into your life.
The devil our ENEMY is not to be loved or bowed to or respected. The devil is to be kept out of a believers life. We have to do this. God has already given us everything we need to do so.
God does not use the devil for anything......ok perhaps an example....lol
 
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Brother Number 9 is all wrong......
God will NOT ever and I will say it again.....GOD WILL NOT EVER give satan power to do anything in any ones life. God does not use satan as a tool or a teaching aid..
He has given us power over the devil and the authority over the devil. He has shown us in His word the way he operates.

People open the door to satan.....Your words can give satan right to enter into your life.
The devil our ENEMY is not to be loved or bowed to or respected. The devil is to be kept out of a believers life. We have to do this. God has already given us everything we need to do so.
God does not use the devil for anything......ok perhaps an example....lol
Have you not read in Job where God allowed Satan to destroy Job's life? Satan could not have done this without God's permission. God would not have allowed satan to do that were it not a part of his Divine Plan. Unless you feel God was powerless to stop him?

Not saying satan is our friend or should be respected. Only that whatever he does has been foreordained by God. If you reject this then you reject God's complete control of eternity, which most Christians often do in this day and age.

If God doesn't use the devil, why does he exist? Why not send him straight to hell? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

Also, I'm not denying the authority we have over him.
 
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Have you not read in Job where God allowed Satan to destroy Job's life? Satan could not have done this without God's permission. God would not have allowed satan to do that were it not a part of his Divine Plan. Unless you feel God was powerless to stop him?

Not saying satan is our friend or should be respected. Only that whatever he does has been foreordained by God. If you reject this then you reject God's complete control of eternity, which most Christians often do in this day and age.

If God doesn't use the devil, why does he exist? Why not send him straight to hell? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

Also, I'm not denying the authority we have over him.
That's not entirely accurate. There are boundaries that have been set in the Spirit realm just like in the physical realm. Most are protocols, and they can cross from one realm to the other and visa versa. Pray to affect change in the physical. Be righteous to affect prayer. Prayers won't be heard if there is undealt sin in your life.

James 1:6-7 (KJV)
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.​

Psalms 66:18 (KJV)
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:​

Hebrews 3:19 (KJV)
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.​

Job had fear, sin, in his heart, which allowed the devil to do what he did. Job repented and God said Job was righteous.

Now I know you'll bring up Job 1:22 and I am not saying it's wrong because it's correct in that Job didn't sin because of the actions that just befell him. But he even admitted to his sin:

Job 3:25-26 (KJV)
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.​

This unrest allowed the devil in. Job opened the door.

Romans 14:23 (KJV)
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.​

See when you dismiss one principle for a seemingly other principle you're missing the balance. God makes promises that your prayers will be heard, but when nothing happens, we blame God "Oh I guess it's not God's will." That pride. The problem is with us! The undealt sin in our hearts. This is why David cried out:

Psalms 139:23-24 (KJV)
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
Live by ALL the word of God, not what's "preached" and excused away...

Just like Job:

Hebrews 4:11 (KJV)
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​
 
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I too do not claim any denomination. I learned that the roots of them are grafted into Catholicism, and having not root in the ways of Christ. I say this because Colossians 2:16-17 says: So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. All through Paul's writings he observed the Sabbath and feast and festivals after the death of Jesus. I went to a Non-denominational church for about 4 years. They said they were non-denominational, but were actually affiliated with the Church of God of Cleveland. So that alone was confusing. I went there 4 years and I started to see that it was nothing but a business, with Jesus as the product, and the congregation as the consumers. Having coffee house built inside called Holy Grounds. I am just using this as an example.

I looked at the early church converts, the history of the Christian religion we know today. All of this research was pulling me away from the church we know today. I was lead in a different direction. Early converts were following the ways of Christ. Christ observed the feast and festivals, the new moons, the Sabbaths. Paul also observed these days after the death of Christ. I will give an example from Acts, but it is all throughout Paul's writings. In 1st Corinthians 11:23-26 it says: For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.

Acts 20:6-7 says: And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Also in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus says: Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Heaven and Earth are still here). Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.

Jesus left his Throne in heaven and came into the world to do away with animal sacrifices, in turn He loved us so much He became the living sacrifice and changing that way of atonement of sins, and He became the High Priest according to the Order of Melchizedek (Melchizedek means King of Righteousness). Now we are sanctified through the offering of the Body of Christ once and for all. Then He said He would write the laws on our hearts and in our minds, fulfilling what Jeremiah 31:31-34. “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

We all know the Lord, but are we doing the same thing as the Pharisees? We are following the ways of men and not honoring Him who died for us... I live in fear of the Lord and want to do His will. That is why I am constantly seeking and looking outside in other books that were not included in canon. Not for a new gospel, but to understand the fullness of God. I see the Harlot, the beast, and the time is at hand. I see our ways in church do not line up with scripture, and I felt pulled away for a number of reasons. Satan divides the sheep, causes division and strife, so many are easy pray for him to steal, kill and destroy. We have 41,000 denominations that claim to be Christian. We celebrate holidays that mock God, and teach our children to do the same.

I believe Jesus "Yehoshua in Hebrew which means: Yahweh is Salvation..." is God in the flesh. God is ONE. The Father came and taught us how we should live and honor Him. The greatest of commandments is Deuteronomy 6:5 which says: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

This leads me to Mark 12:28-34 which says: Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?” Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” But after that no one dared question Him.

John 8:58 says: Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
All through my reading and studies and research, the Truth was revealed. That Yehoshua is the I AM, God is One, Jesus is Immanuel "God with us.."
All of this is not taught in churches. They believe God is three in One. If that is the case then why did Jesus breathe on the disciples in John 20:22-23 which says: And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. Spirit in Hebrew is Ruah: which stands for breath. Strong's Hebrew 7307. Jesus was in the Flesh, He is the everlasting Father Isaiah 9:6.

I think you got my point of Jesus is God. He is One. Like we are one. Also to believe the Law is done away with is silly. So I guess it is okay to murder, okay to commit adultery, okay to forget the Sabbath and keep it Holy, okay to steal. I think not, but He wrote it on our hearts and minds.
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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Have you not read in Job where God allowed Satan to destroy Job's life? Satan could not have done this without God's permission. God would not have allowed satan to do that were it not a part of his Divine Plan. Unless you feel God was powerless to stop him?

Not saying satan is our friend or should be respected. Only that whatever he does has been foreordained by God. If you reject this then you reject God's complete control of eternity, which most Christians often do in this day and age.

If God doesn't use the devil, why does he exist? Why not send him straight to hell? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

Also, I'm not denying the authority we have over him.
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.

Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.

Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)


We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.

We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....

I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.

1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.

2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.

3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.

4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.

5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.

Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....

First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.

Now lets look at two verses here.

Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.

And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.

We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips. ( )

2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?

Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"

See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...

The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.

Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.

I hope this helps some of you understand what many have been trying to show you...
Have thee most blessed and wonderful week end
Jim
 
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Thankyou for posting your thought. A bit wordy, but I managed read it all:)
I am going to respond to only a few points that seem to me to be of greatest importance.
Also in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus says: Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Heaven and Earth are still here). Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
Please consider what you are focusing on, and what you are seeming to gloss over in the above quote.
I'm commenting on the last sentence of you quoted statement, which I would consider to be your summary.
You focus on the fact that Jesus didn't come to destroy the Law or the Prophets however you leave out the extremely important disclosure by Jesus that He came to fulfill.
So for whose benefit do you think it was that Jesus came to fulfill the Law? Was it for His own benefit or was it for our benefit?
I believe that both things Jesus said here are of great importance, not just one or the other.
It is true that the Law is not yet abolished, but it is equally true that neither you nor I nor anyone else can fulfill the requirements of the Law. Yet Jesus said
Mat 5:20. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
So we can plead Jesus Christ as our righteousness.
But I digress. I want you to look again, more closely at Matt 5:17,18.
Consider that the Law and the prophets were ultimately about Jesus as the Christ of God. see for example:
Joh 5:39. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40. yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
Do you not see that Jesus' entire ministry was about fulfilling all that was written in the Scriptures concerning Him?
So in saying that He did not come to destroy, but to fulfill, He is talking about all the Law and Prophets...The Scriptures, not just the Ten Commandments and/or the Levitical laws.
He did not come to set aside any of the Scriptures He came in answer to them.
Don't focus on the Law as a set of commandments, focus on Jesus.
More later..the Lord willing.
 
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I too do not claim any denomination. I learned that the roots of them are grafted into Catholicism, and having not root in the ways of Christ. I say this because Colossians 2:16-17 says: So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. All through Paul's writings he observed the Sabbath and feast and festivals after the death of Jesus. I went to a Non-denominational church for about 4 years. They said they were non-denominational, but were actually affiliated with the Church of God of Cleveland. So that alone was confusing. I went there 4 years and I started to see that it was nothing but a business, with Jesus as the product, and the congregation as the consumers. Having coffee house built inside called Holy Grounds. I am just using this as an example.
"Having coffee house built inside called Holy Grounds." Well at least that is a rather clever pun.:)
Not residing down under in the US, these "church of God of...." is a little new to me. I am aware that there is a "Church of God of Prophesy", but I didn't realize that there were ones for cities too. I wonder if they are affiliated?

I think you are a little bit unfair to the Catholics in what you are posting.
Given that they are not exactly 'squeaky clean', and that they are not exactly 100% 'New Testament', neither is any other Church group, though all in their own way do strive to conform and honour Jesus.
Please consider:
Mat 16:13. Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
Mat 16:14. And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Mat 16:15. He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16. Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17. And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

This passage is not about Apostolic succession, nor about Peter being appointed as 'head honcho' on earth.
It is about the foundational faith of the Church, the Church which is victorious in the face of all the onslaughts of evil and destructiveness of Hell.
What are the 'gates of hell'?
The gates are the way of entrance to hell...to eternal death, and these, however we might want to define them will be impotent against the faith in Christ as declared by Simon the son of Jonah---Peter.
That's it in a 'nut shell'
Now please notice that this whole discussion is about our understanding of who Jesus is.
Notice that Jesus first asks who (other) people say He is. V13.
They supply a whole list of unlikely candidates...all good and 'godly' men, but not able to stand up under the test of the 'Law and the Prophets'.....the Scriptures, concerning the Christ. V14
Now Jesus is drawing them to consider their own position, their own belief. V15 This is becoming personal, this is not about groups, this is about you and me, what do we believe about Jesus.
Do you see where this is leading?
Peter speaking under divine inspiration (for a change :)), declares the truth about Jesus. V16, V17
This is what is important for the Church...any Church to believe and adhere to. This is what the 'gates of hell will not, can not stand against.
The catholic church, the anglican church, the baptist church, the presbyterian church, the 'church of God of the....'
all denominations fall short of perfection in various ways, but if we all believe that Jesus is the 'Christ, the Son of the living God.' and declare that truth in our catachisms, our liturgies and preaching and in our pastoral fellowship, then there is a place there for us to grow,


Do you personally have anything of value to add to, to share with any of these churches or are you just a taker, a beggar in the market place sitting before an upturned hat?
 
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We all know the Lord, but are we doing the same thing as the Pharisees? We are following the ways of men and not honoring Him who died for us... I live in fear of the Lord and want to do His will. That is why I am constantly seeking and looking outside in other books that were not included in canon. Not for a new gospel, but to understand the fullness of God.
The pharisees denied Jesus as the Christ of God, do we?
Think back to the days before computers and the internet, even before the economic spreading of knowledge through printed books, or radio and tv broadcasting. If you were lucky, you might have been able to read from a Bible at your local church, but most probably, you would have only been able to listen to the Bible being read out during a church service.
So, to a greater or lesser extent, your studies would have been restricted to the 66 books of the Bible, and maybe the books of the Apocrypha. Do you think that the Lord would treat all those millions of people any differently that those of our time? Isn't the Church founded on Peter's confession. Really, is a person born before the invention of the printing press, but believing in Christ Jesus, worse off that we who have so many many distractions?
The Bible as the Lord has provided, (66 books, + Apocrypha if you like) is sufficient for our needs in being trained in righteousness. It stood for training throughout the past 2000 years or so, it has stood the test of time and it carries the endorsement of God....;we really can't better that!
Your statement, "I live in fear of the Lord and want to do His will." Is worrying. Do you mean 'fear' as in 'shaking in your boots', or do you mean holding in holy regard and respect?
We are not called to dread the lord, because love drives away fear and dread, it replaces that with confidence.
 
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The pharisees denied Jesus as the Christ of God, do we?
Think back to the days before computers and the internet, even before the economic spreading of knowledge through printed books, or radio and tv broadcasting. If you were lucky, you might have been able to read from a Bible at your local church, but most probably, you would have only been able to listen to the Bible being read out during a church service.
So, to a greater or lesser extent, your studies would have been restricted to the 66 books of the Bible, and maybe the books of the Apocrypha. Do you think that the Lord would treat all those millions of people any differently that those of our time? Isn't the Church founded on Peter's confession. Really, is a person born before the invention of the printing press, but believing in Christ Jesus, worse off that we who have so many many distractions?
The Bible as the Lord has provided, (66 books, + Apocrypha if you like) is sufficient for our needs in being trained in righteousness. It stood for training throughout the past 2000 years or so, it has stood the test of time and it carries the endorsement of God....;we really can't better that!
Your statement, "I live in fear of the Lord and want to do His will." Is worrying. Do you mean 'fear' as in 'shaking in your boots', or do you mean holding in holy regard and respect?
We are not called to dread the lord, because love drives away fear and dread, it replaces that with confidence.
Fear and reverence...
 
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