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So, does this say that satan was cast out of heaven when he committed: or because satan tried to regain the place from where he was cast?
The Law Of Holiness
- Thread starter Candelario Mario Villa
- Start date
So, does this say that satan was cast out of heaven when he committed: or because satan tried to regain the place from where he was cast?
Good question? it seems according to a passage of scripture that he did that very thing? If he could stand, how much more we who have been washed in the Blood of Christ? The word "stand" as I use it means to "stand in righteousness" before God, not ours but His righteousness.
[quote="Mitspa, post: 309823, member: 12304"}
My friend, we (believers) are not in the flesh and are not judged according to Adam but according to Christ.
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
We must reason within the scriptures. And if anyone claims they understand the fall of Lucifer, or exactly how God dealt with his rebellion? I would question the source of their info, we have some understanding from the scriptures, but it is limited. Gods purpose for creation, was for man. satan, was to serve the creation (in my understanding)[/quote]
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Beloved, God's purpose for creation was multfold:
To express His love;
to create man and express his love in him;
to deal with the iniquity and sin that was to come.
Yes. The true believer is not judged by the transgression of Adam.
Which brings this question: Is satan on equal grounds with the redeemed? (Isa, 35:9) "No lion shall be there, nor ravenous beast...but the redeemed shall walk there."
The most excellent place to acquire the source of information, is to ask the One who created and gave the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
There is a gift that gives that kind of information: although it's only a word at a time.
My friend, we (believers) are not in the flesh and are not judged according to Adam but according to Christ.
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
We must reason within the scriptures. And if anyone claims they understand the fall of Lucifer, or exactly how God dealt with his rebellion? I would question the source of their info, we have some understanding from the scriptures, but it is limited. Gods purpose for creation, was for man. satan, was to serve the creation (in my understanding)[/quote]
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Beloved, God's purpose for creation was multfold:
To express His love;
to create man and express his love in him;
to deal with the iniquity and sin that was to come.
Yes. The true believer is not judged by the transgression of Adam.
Which brings this question: Is satan on equal grounds with the redeemed? (Isa, 35:9) "No lion shall be there, nor ravenous beast...but the redeemed shall walk there."
The most excellent place to acquire the source of information, is to ask the One who created and gave the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
There is a gift that gives that kind of information: although it's only a word at a time.
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No, Beloved, satan can never stand where the redeemed will stand.
Now the redeemed can stand where satan stands, but they must walk outside of the Way of Holiness.
Not sure why you would think I am confused? (it was your question, I allowed that it was an honest question) The issue (of standing before God) only came about in response to your statement, that seemed to miss the truth that a believer does not approach God, based upon their own holiness but based upon the blood of Christ.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[quote="Mitspa, post: 309828, member: 12304"}
Not sure why you would think I am confused? (it was your question, I allowed that it was an honest question) The issue (of standing before God) only came about in response to your statement, that seemed to miss the truth that a believer does not approach God, based upon their own holiness but based upon the blood of Christ.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,[/quote]
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Beloved, the confusion was mine, as I was replying to other posts with similar questions.
You are quite accurate in your response, but it did not correspond to the answer I had in question I had in mind.
My PC is a dinosaur, and I had two different issues on the board at the same time.
Enjoy your walk in the Lord, Beloved.
Not sure why you would think I am confused? (it was your question, I allowed that it was an honest question) The issue (of standing before God) only came about in response to your statement, that seemed to miss the truth that a believer does not approach God, based upon their own holiness but based upon the blood of Christ.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,[/quote]
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Beloved, the confusion was mine, as I was replying to other posts with similar questions.
You are quite accurate in your response, but it did not correspond to the answer I had in question I had in mind.
My PC is a dinosaur, and I had two different issues on the board at the same time.
Enjoy your walk in the Lord, Beloved.
I am enjoying your questions. Which definition of eternity are you referring to?
eter·ni·ty
noun \i-ˈtər-nə-tē\
: time without an end
: a state that comes after death and never ends (Merriam-Webster online)
Hebrews 8:12 says: For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." Our sins will be non existent therefore since they are not remembered by God. God will separate all wickedness from believers (the judgment), so the believers eternity will be completely separated from the eternity of Satan. The believers eternity is eternal love. Satan and the unbelievers eternity will be all that is not love.
It seems as if hell is still in time, since there is remembrance of sins, verses the new heaven and earth being without time since the Spirit of God will be present in everything and always has existed.
I see what your saying, that Satan hasn't been cast down yet, that the war is in the end. The whole point of our existence here is the decision of who we will believe (it is the picture of Eve and then Adam in the garden). This paints a picture of God giving equal say between himself and Satan so that no one can say God was unjust.
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I only know of ONE eternity. There, when the Church is with the Lord, there will be no memory of sins nor of the past.
The lake of fire (which you alluded to where satan will be), has to be limited; for although it can exist within eternity, it cannot encompass it.
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No. Satan has already been cast down before the creation of man: but in Revelations 12, he is trying to regain what he has already lost through his iniquity.
God is giving satan equal say???? "And my glory will I give to no other." You are listening to the spirit of a wrong teacher!
However, I want t
I was in no way saying that he was giving glory to Satan but rather God is allowing Satan to speak (he could have separated him from people) so that people are making a choice themselves. This is actually what is happening, but I was asking if this is the point that you are trying to make.
Which is exactly my point.
The eternity Satan is in is separate from what the believer is in. Even though eternity it is two states in eternity. I think I made myself clear on that.
I will stick with my two eternity point. Although for some reason Mario, you never seem to understand my posts. It's okay however.
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Forgive me, Beloved: I must have misunderstood. Again, we must understand why God created us. God could have created man sans Lucifer: but God has a perfect plan.
God created man to have pleasure in him: to express His love in humanity;
God wanted man to be as perfect as Him: and man could only do this with the will to reject sin and express the love of God;
God's plan included the complete elimination of iniquity ans sin, to never to remember them;
That's why God created the angels before the Law of Sin and Death; and created man after the Law of Grace.
Each creation, angels and man, had to choose their destination.
So now we have angels and men that are fallen; and angels that kept their first estate and men that are saved.
OK. Here is my understanding:
Eternity is not a "place": it has no beginning and no end, is limitless, and is not encompassed by anything;
being eternal has a limit: it is encompassed by eternity, and can not extend beyond its limit.
The lake of fire is eternal, but it is not satan's eternity, nor itself an eternity: satan can neither extend not limit its boundaries.
That explanation is almost as complicated as the "trinity"; it's said to be a mystery, but men are always trying to explain it!
Eternity is not a "place": it has no beginning and no end, is limitless, and is not encompassed by anything;
being eternal has a limit: it is encompassed by eternity, and can not extend beyond its limit.
The lake of fire is eternal, but it is not satan's eternity, nor itself an eternity: satan can neither extend not limit its boundaries.
That explanation is almost as complicated as the "trinity"; it's said to be a mystery, but men are always trying to explain it!
I think if I ever meet anyone who claims to have a full understanding of the "Trinity" or of "eternity" I will look to see if he has wings, or is trying to pull my wallet out of my back pocket?
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I tried to imagine the vastness of the universe once. Just the universe. It's impossible. Even with the satellites going out and taking pictures from distances that we can only imagine: and it's still impossible to understand. And it's supposed to be expanding!
All I'm saying is that eternity is wa- aaay out there, and it (maybe) starts just past the universe; and eternal is closer to home.
See? Waa-aaay over there...look it! See...?
Nope, couldn't even find your wallet!
"Then said I, 'Woe is me! foe I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of
unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of Hosts.'
Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off
he altar: and he laid it upon my mouth, and said, 'Lo, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and
your sin purged.'
Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?' Then said I, 'Send me.' "
The angel could not touch the altar of coals, except with tongs; the coal took away the prophet's iniquity and purged his sins;
and men say that satan is able to enter that place where angels who have not committed iniquity are most careful to tread!
But you will say: "Brother Villa, the prophet who was in iniquity and sin was there!"
Yes he was: but a coal from the altar took the iniquity and sin away. It was a type and figure of Grace.
Satan has no part whatsoever with the sons of God: and we should jealously guard that.
unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of Hosts.'
Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off
he altar: and he laid it upon my mouth, and said, 'Lo, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and
your sin purged.'
Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?' Then said I, 'Send me.' "
The angel could not touch the altar of coals, except with tongs; the coal took away the prophet's iniquity and purged his sins;
and men say that satan is able to enter that place where angels who have not committed iniquity are most careful to tread!
But you will say: "Brother Villa, the prophet who was in iniquity and sin was there!"
Yes he was: but a coal from the altar took the iniquity and sin away. It was a type and figure of Grace.
Satan has no part whatsoever with the sons of God: and we should jealously guard that.