The Law

[covered_by_grace]

Calvin, you asked..........."So why do we measure holiness by Church attendance?"

IMHO it is one of the ways in which we can be assured that one is at least trying to be obedient to God.
It does not make them holy but it is a visible testimony of trying to be.

Very true, Major. I like to be around "fruitful" believers and attending church services can be outward expression and extension of our love for Him by showing obedience, which produces fruit.

I will also add that I have found in my own life, and have seen in others', the "coming to the well" sense of urgency in someone who is "on fire" or actively seeking God. I want to be with the Lord, be in the presence of His palpable Holy Spirit where two or more are gathered, sing His praises with His people, learn, sharpen my iron, grow my faith, hear a testimony, fellowship, be a blessing, pray....etc...and going to church is a kind of corporate re-filling of Living Water into my soul that is different from the prayer closet re-filling, if I may.

The danger is allowing yourself to judge someone else's "holiness" based upon whether or not they physically go to a church. We can't assume we know what the issue is that would keep them from assembling together with other believers.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Major]

Very true, Major. I like to be around "fruitful" believers and attending church services can be outward expression and extension of our love for Him by showing obedience, which produces fruit.

I will also add that I have found in my own life, and have seen in others', the "coming to the well" sense of urgency in someone who is "on fire" or actively seeking God. I want to be with the Lord, be in the presence of His palpable Holy Spirit where two or more are gathered, sing His praises with His people, learn, sharpen my iron, grow my faith, hear a testimony, fellowship, be a blessing, pray....etc...and going to church is a kind of corporate re-filling of Living Water into my soul that is different from the prayer closet re-filling, if I may.

The danger is allowing yourself to judge someone else's "holiness" based upon whether or not they physically go to a church. We can't assume we know what the issue is that would keep them from assembling together with other believers.

Just my thoughts.

I agree completly!!!

All I am saying is that it is "something" we can tangably observe. It does not mean any more than that IMHO.

 

[th1bill]

Calvin, you asked..........."So why do we measure holiness by Church attendance?"

IMHO it is one of the ways in which we can be assured that one is at least trying to be obedient to God.
It does not make them holy but it is a visible testimony of trying to be.

Calvin, I'd like to add that Jesus said that if we love Him we will obey His commands. Some will protest that He did not write Hebrews but then we pull John 1:1-3 out to read that nothing exists that He is not responsible for it's being.

 

[calvin]

"How to be controversial without even trying." Maybe that could be the title of my next book.
Church attendance is a good and for the most part a necessary thing. It benefits both the one going and the others there as well. My comment was meant for the OT Jews who lived out of town. In those days a distance we could travel in 40 minutes in the family car might have taken 3 days or something. Just imagine the headaches traveling with a family of young children. Every mile or so................. "are we there yet?"...."Mommy Joseph pulled a face at me"
"I want to go to the toilet"....and so on.
Major your post #20 brought to mind a sequence from an old Gregory Peck Film "Friendly Persuasion." But I'll elaborate no further on this point.
Jesus said, by their fruits you will know them and that reminds me of Lev 18:5, that would be a 24/7 thing rather than a Sunday morning thing.

 

[Kevin]

the1bill: But enough of this. Can you explain what you mean by saying "the fourth (Sabbath keeping) is the anomaly"; the Sabbath was something of a bone of contention between Jesus and the pharisees, so I'm wondering....

Jack: I can explain it; and, of course, feel free to disagree. Of the Ten Commandments given to Israel, only nine are repeated in the New Testament, the fourth, keeping of the Sabbath, is the odd one. The Sabbath was not only given to Israel, but it was the sign of a covenant God made with the Nation. Of course the Pharisees, being the conservatives of Judaism, kept the Sabbath (Saturday) and had formed many rules and regulations regarding this Commandment and some of these regulations were ridiculous. It seems to me that the Christian Church met on Sunday, the first day of the week as it was the day when Christ rose from the dead. Some people think the Sabbath was moved from Saturday to Sunday, but I don't think so. It was Saturday, is now Saturday, and will always be Saturday. The NT Christian Church worshiped on Sunday, the Lord's Day.

I have done a lot of study on the Sabbath, mostly due to the persuasive efforts of a Seventh Day Adventist. Feel free to disagree with me. The Sabbath has become a controversial issue in churches simply because we cannot explain it away. God commanded us to obey the Sabbath - this I think we all agree upon. The controversy comes when we start to discuss the actual day it falls upon. The Jews have kept a miticulous record of dates and without a doubt the Old Testament Sabbath falls on a Friday evening to a Saturday evening (Jerusalem time). The early church worshiped on the Lords day, plus they worshiped on a Saturday (there are numerous examples of the disciples preaching in the synagogues). There are also numerous examples of the early church worshipping in the week the week. So the day of worship of the early church does not imply the day of the Sabbath has changed.

I feel the key lies in the words of Jesus.

Mar 2:23
And it happened that He went through the grainfields on the sabbath day. And as they walked His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.
Mar 2:24

And the Pharisees said to Him, Behold, why do they do that which is not lawful on the sabbath day?
Mar 2:25
And He said to them, Have you never read what David did, when he had need and was hungry, he, and those with him?
Mar 2:26
How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat, except for the priests, and also gave to those with him?
Mar 2:27
And He said to them, The sabbath came into being for man's sake, and not man for the sabbath's sake.
Mar 2:28
Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the sabbath.

The key verses here are that Jesus is the LORD of the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was created for the sake of man.
The book of Hebrews, I feel gives us the answers (Hebrews is the equivalent to Leviticus).
Heb 4:5
And in this place again, "They shall not enter into My rest."
Heb 4:6
Since then it remains that some must enter into it, and since they to whom it was first preached did not enter in because of unbelief,
Heb 4:7
He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, "Today," (after so long a time). Even as it is said, "Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts."
Heb 4:8
For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9

So then there remains a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10
For he who has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His.
Heb 4:11
Therefore let us labor to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12
For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to thedividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Sabbath originally was designed for man to rest and to acknowledge God on that day. In other words God was mans rest on the Sabbath.

Now Jesus, as the Lord of the Sabbath has become our rest.

What I understand is that the Sabbath is still a valid part of Gods law but it no longer pertains to a particular day but lies in the fact that if we have faith in Jesus (the Lord of the Sabbath), Jesus has become the Sabbath for us. We rest (lay all our hopes, trials, lives) in Jesus and by this we acknowledge God throughout the week.

This is my interpretation, it is based upon a huge amount of Bible study and prayer, which I cannot post here due to the size. Feel free to disagree but I still believe the Sabbath is a valid active part of God's law but it know lies in the person of Jesus Christ not in a singular day.

 

[th1bill]

Kevin, it looks to me as though you have a good grasp on the content. You, likely, already know this but Iĺl add what Jesus pointed out to the Smaritan woman in John 4:21-24, we must worship in spirit and in truth. If we spend the time to study the Old Testament, the Bible Jesus taught from, we will see that Saturday, the Sabbath Day, was never the point but the Jewish Believers became so stuck on the letter of the Law that they completely missed the point of the day.

You've outlined a great starter study for other here... kudos!

 

[Kevin]

Kevin, it looks to me as though you have a good grasp on the content. You, likely, already know this but Iĺl add what Jesus pointed out to the Smaritan woman in John 4:21-24, we must worship in spirit and in truth. If we spend the time to study the Old Testament, the Bible Jesus taught from, we will see that Saturday, the Sabbath Day, was never the point but the Jewish Believers became so stuck on the letter of the Law that they completely missed the point of the day.

You've outlined a great starter study for other here... kudos!

Thanks Bill.

Hopefully my grammar is better next time .

God bless you in your studies