The Mistake Of Adam

KingJ said:
Then why start a controversial discussion?

What you said in your OP contradicts with what Paul says in 1 Tim 2:13-14 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

No-one, made a valid point and I would like to hear you answer his question in post #2.
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I have found that much of what Paul says contradicts other parts of the Bible unless you look at it closely and consider it's context. Sometimes Paul even seemingly contradicts himself. Why value Paul's notes on the OT more than the OT itself? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since Paul is using the OT here to make a point. Just because Paul, the man, doesn't point out Adam's failure, doesn't mean Adam didn't fail. Right?

(Edited because the quote thing went wrong)
 
BusyDarling said:
I have found that much of what Paul says contradicts other parts of the Bible unless you look at it closely and consider it's context. Sometimes Paul even seemingly contradicts himself. Why value Paul's notes on the OT more than the OT itself? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since Paul is using the OT here to make a point. Just because Paul, the man, doesn't point out Adam's failure, doesn't mean Adam didn't fail. Right?

(Edited because the quote thing went wrong)
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Hi, I think you missed my post # 20 ;).
 
BusyDarling said:
I have found that much of what Paul says contradicts other parts of the Bible unless you look at it closely and consider it's context. Sometimes Paul even seemingly contradicts himself.
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I like your careful wording here... unless... seemingly. I think it's alright for Christians to concede that we just don't get it all. I think the tendency is for us to want to be able to immediately and unambiguously answer any accusations over inconsistencies in scripture. But we're talking about translations of ancient documents written in dead languages... there's bound to be some messiness, and you know what, it's cool with me if it does turn out to be messy and a lot of work to try to understand everything in the Bible. For example, I've been thinking over the years about 1 Cor 11:1-16, where we're told that women should not cut their hair and should wear something on their head, but men should have short hair and not wear a head covering, and this all has something to do with authority and avoiding disgracing our heads, whatever that means, and it's, for some reason, "because of the angels," and apparently nature itself somehow teaches us the validity of all this. I think your comment about considering context couldn't be more relevant in this case: I think it's clear that understanding the cultural/historical context of this passage is our only real hope at making any shred of sense out of all that.

This whole gender thing in the Bible is something that I don't completely understand. The verses discussed on this thread are in the Bible. But also in the Bible is this passage, also written by Paul, in 1 Cor 7:

25Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy. 26I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you. 29But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away.
32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.
...
39A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 40But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

So in some passages, Paul seems to be making claims about which gender should have authority over the other, and why. In this passage, though, Paul seems to be declaring to Christian women that "you don't need no man, you go girls," and they're better off and happier without a man, and they are perfectly capable of being "holy both in body and spirit" without the leadership of a husband to submit to.

So go figure. I don't get it.

But, I, like you seem to be doing, don't consider it to be a contradiction, but that it only seems to be a contradiction, and I'm still working at understanding it. I strongly suspect that your suggestion to understand these passages in context is crucial, but actually understanding the Bible in context is a massive undertaking, fraught with complications. Anyway, thanks for your input in this discussion.
 
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I think the whole point is that:
as a group, women were to be submissive to the authority of men
individually, each would be happier unmarried as each would be able to devote their entire lives to God

Paul was right on the mark on that one, "Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you."
Marriage is a challenge, even with the best of participants.
 
We believe what the Bible is teaching is that Adam was first formed from the dust of the earth and then Eve was formed from the side of Adam, (who was a human and no longer dust), the common rendering and teaching in our English Bibles is God used a rib to form Eve, which is true, but I've also read competent Hebrew scholars say the signification of the word means the rib with flesh attached to it, a piece of Adams heart. That teaches us a very important details in the in answer to many of the questions asked so far in this thread.

1. With the creation of Eve, Adam lost something, also Eve wasn't complete, hence the signification of the two becoming one flesh, if both were complete then they would become two flesh (bodies) in marriage.

2. Every man that has ever loved a woman and given her his heart, if that woman leaves him will tell you it's his heart that is hurting, not his rib, men tend to remain longer in depression after a breakup the women, ...but there are exceptions to every rule.

3. What Eve received from the perfect man was his emotions, most men aren't emotional or show their emotions as readily as women do.

4. What Adam didn't lose, or what Eve didn't receive was Adam's discernment, and even today if we are willing to admit it, men are more discerning than women, ...but there are exceptions to every rule.

5. Women, because they are more emotional, tend to worship God on a more spiritual, deeper level that men can.

If we put it all together, satan tempted Eve with what Eve was desiring, to be closer to God, to enter into a deeper worship relationship with Him, that's why Paul tells us she was deceived, she thought it would be beneficial for her. Adam on the other hand, like most men, wouldn't spend any time listening to a talking snake, because he was the most intelligent man that ever has lived, except for the Second Adam, he talked with God, so what could a snake teach him? But remember, he had named all of the animals presented before him as Mr. and Mrs., ...he point being to show him he was alone, so when he found his bride naked, without her robe of light (which teaches us a lot about the transfiguration of Jesus) he paniced, actually it was a test of faith, "the just live by faith," Hab 2:4 which every one of God's kid will be tested in the same manner as they walk with the Lord.

To the dear soul that bemoans how Adam is treating her, remember what Eve was created for, to be a help mate for Adam, every man is incomplete and every woman is incomplete and in most cases neither one of them knows what they are missing until they come together in a Christian marriage union, every Eve has to teach her Adam how to be emotional, first towards God and then he will be open to listen to her teach him how to give her the desires of her heart and every man must teach his Eve how to be discerning the things of God and the wiles of the devil and then she will be able to see her weakness, hence Paul teaches men to love their wives like Christ loves His church and died for it (and men, how faithful has the church been, or how quickly does the Church listen to talking snakes) so must we die to our desires so as to please and help our wives and for women to respect and honor your husbands, ...submitting to their God given authority over them.

I have more to say, particularly about why a rib was also used, but it's time for work, so I'll be back this evening.

Blessings,

In His Love,

Gene
 
Hi Gene

Interesting. I'm just really curious as to what you base the discernment argument on. I see nothing pointing towards that.
Men not being emotional is something cultural. Jesus himself was VERY emotional.
In Western cultural context, however, it's true that women can teach men how to DEAL with emotions rather than pushing them away.
 
Roads said:
I like your careful wording here... unless... seemingly. I think it's alright for Christians to concede that we just don't get it all. I think the tendency is for us to want to be able to immediately and unambiguously answer any accusations over inconsistencies in scripture. But we're talking about translations of ancient documents written in dead languages... there's bound to be some messiness, and you know what, it's cool with me if it does turn out to be messy and a lot of work to try to understand everything in the Bible. For example, I've been thinking over the years about 1 Cor 11:1-16, where we're told that women should not cut their hair and should wear something on their head, but men should have short hair and not wear a head covering, and this all has something to do with authority and avoiding disgracing our heads, whatever that means, and it's, for some reason, "because of the angels," and apparently nature itself somehow teaches us the validity of all this. I think your comment about considering context couldn't be more relevant in this case: I think it's clear that understanding the cultural/historical context of this passage is our only real hope at making any shred of sense out of all that.

This whole gender thing in the Bible is something that I don't completely understand. The verses discussed on this thread are in the Bible. But also in the Bible is this passage, also written by Paul, in 1 Cor 7:

25Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy. 26I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you. 29But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away.
32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.
...
39A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 40But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

So in some passages, Paul seems to be making claims about which gender should have authority over the other, and why. In this passage, though, Paul seems to be declaring to Christian women that "you don't need no man, you go girls," and they're better off and happier without a man, and they are perfectly capable of being "holy both in body and spirit" without the leadership of a husband to submit to.

So go figure. I don't get it.

But, I, like you seem to be doing, don't consider it to be a contradiction, but that it only seems to be a contradiction, and I'm still working at understanding it. I strongly suspect that your suggestion to understand these passages in context is crucial, but actually understanding the Bible in context is a massive undertaking, fraught with complications. Anyway, thanks for your input in this discussion.
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Thanks for your reply!! The Bible isn't easy, no, and I think I'll spend my life trying to understand it... haha.

That's actually a really interesting bit you've mentioned here! And it does fit with what I'm learning about Eve and women, but I can't put that into words yet. The Spirit uses my own 'thinking language' (I'm not a words-thinker) to show me stuff sometimes, He speaks it better than I do...haha. But I trust He'll also help me find the words when the time is ready.
There's more to it, and so far it really all IS coming together but I'm not done learning yet.



Genesis 3
New International Version (NIV)

The Fall
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.



The serpent knew EXACTLY what he did. That also means, tempting Adam would not get him his way. Eve was the one through whom he could cause the Fall.
Not because Eve was an easy target. Eve was the harder target. I mean, all it took to get Adam to fall was 'here, honey!'
There's something about Eve.
Something we don't know.




And, still, just for the record: the only way you can use 'helper' as a way to place Eve under Adam is if you don't really understand what 'helper' means.
The Bible doesn't state the 'helper' is a subordinate help to make it easier. Seeing 'helper' like that is un-biblical and egocentric: you're talking the other down to think more of yourself. Neither does it state 'helper' as I've come to understand it, it just says 'helper'.
I've come to understand 'helper' as being someone vitally important. A helper can hold more 'power' than the helped.
I am a helper for a living. Helper is a paradoxal position.
I am a doctor, and the only way I can truly be a helper in this position is if I respect those I help. I can only be a good doctor if I understand what 'influence' I have, power, if you wish, and if I choose to use this power to do good. If I choose to be selfish, or choose to do bad, the results can be catastrophic. (I pray to God to give me the wisdom and discernment I need for this!).
At the same time I am dependent of those whom I help. Without them, there would be no reason for my professional existence. (Yes, I strive to eliminate the need of myself. I'll have a lot of free time in the New World I think!)
And I am also completely dependent on those who help me: can't do this alone. My teachers. The nurses. They deserve more respect than they get. I could not run a ward or work on the ER without them. Yet, a ward with no doctor doesn't run well either. And when kids come around if they do, or maybe just when I land myself in a busy practice, there will be other helpers around. I might help a woman by hiring her to help me. (In that case I really need her, but I am the 'boss' because I'm the one with the money. This is different from helping a patient, because they can never be the boss of me (or the other way round).)

So, before reminding me that Eve was made as a helper for Adam when my poor soul complains (Gene!) about how Adam is treating me...
Please explain to me how you know Eve was made as a maid and not as a doctor, based on how God made her.
And yes, I know she's made of flesh, but it wasn't Adam who saw it was no good, it was God who saw it was not good and Adam needed a helper. Adam was incomplete without Eve, Adam needed a helper. BEFORE God decided a rib would be better than dust to make her from.

But thank you for reminding me Eve is a helper in essence.

Helper fascinates me. It really does. It says SO MUCH about how humanity is intended!!
 
BusyDarling said:
I have found that much of what Paul says contradicts other parts of the Bible unless you look at it closely and consider it's context. Sometimes Paul even seemingly contradicts himself. Why value Paul's notes on the OT more than the OT itself? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since Paul is using the OT here to make a point. Just because Paul, the man, doesn't point out Adam's failure, doesn't mean Adam didn't fail. Right?

(Edited because the quote thing went wrong)
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BD,
You are the first person I've run into on the WWW that understands the relationship between the Old and the New Testaments... God has truly blessed you.
 
Interesting. I'm just really curious as to what you base the discernment argument on. I see nothing pointing towards that.
Men not being emotional is something cultural. Jesus himself was VERY emotional.
In Western cultural context, however, it's true that women can teach men how to DEAL with emotions rather than pushing them away.
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Dear one, demonic evolutionary psychology teaches that man's problems are cultural, the Bible doesn't teach us that, the Bible teaches us man's problems are because of his sin, but don't believe me, uses your concordance and try to find the verses that teach what you call cultural Acts 17:11, ...yes you are correct, Jesus was very emotional and that's the answer to your question, Jesus was/is the Second Man/Adam 1 Cor 15:47, He was perfect God/Man, not lacking anything like the descendents of the first Adam Ge 5:3, all of Adam's posterity are made up of dust and are born in his image and likeness, ...i.e. we men are missing the part that God used to make our Eve and we won't be complete until we are joined to her in one flesh.

Now, a little late, ...Eve was made from the side of Adam, using a part (emotional) of his heart and a rib, that's why it's recorded for us what the most intelligent man that has ever lived said, "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh," wouldn't make much sense if it was just a rib, now would it, ...why a rib, because blood is produced in the marrow of the bones (you, being a Doctor know this), and the life is in the blood Lev 17:11, at the moment of conception a baby starts producing it's own blood, not one drop comes from the mother, sooo, when the incorruptible sperm of the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary He received the resemblance of a man from her (that means He was an embryo that would produce it's own pure blood producing bones), but none of her sin tainted blood (which is another study as to what happens inside of us when we are born again with incorruptible sperm from the Holy Spirit and the incorruptible Word of God).

So, before reminding me that Eve was made as a helper for Adam when my poor soul complains (Gene!) about how Adam is treating me...
Please explain to me how you know Eve was made as a maid and not as a doctor, based on how God made her.
And yes, I know she's made of flesh, but it wasn't Adam who saw it was no good, it was God who saw it was not good and Adam needed a helper. Adam was incomplete without Eve, Adam needed a helper. BEFORE God decided a rib would be better than dust to make her from.

But thank you for reminding me Eve is a helper in essence.
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God is omniscient, He knew before the foundation of the world, before He created Adam that he would fail, hence He had a preconceived plan to save mankind that required a woman, through which the Savior would come, that Savior would have children John 1:12 that would live with Him for all of Eternity, ...flesh and bone cannot inherit Eternity so He devised another way that would reveal His love to us John 3:16.

First off precious, is the Adam you are talking about your husband or your coworkers and friends, ...lets deal with men who are not your husband (assuming you have one), ..what is a part of the curse pronounced on Eve, your desire will be to your husband, but he will rule over you, so all men that aren't born again are still operating in this mode, and those that are born again that haven't been taught the position of the woman in the church will rule over women too. It's only in Christ that the woman is elevated to be equal with man, the world and a lot of churches don't know that, what do you do in this situation, you bless those who persecute you; bless, and do not curse Rom 12:14, I know it's not easy dear one (actually it's easier for a man because he doesn't have the emotions), but, that's what the Word tells us to do, it's all a part of the sanctification process 0f being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, and if you will obey this command James 4:6 I can assure you, you will be blessed with the abundant presence of the Second Adam in your life, ...so much so you will welcome the persecutions that come your way, that is one of the lesson learned from the fiery furnace and the three Hebrew men, being with Jesus they didn't want to leave the fiery trial, in fact they didn't leave until they were called out of the furnace, so it will be with us when we submit to the will of God during the persecutions that Father allows to come in to our lives, we will sense the presence of Jesus with us.

Now if you are married you have to understand we men are brute beasts, bulls in a china shop, forging on with our reason and logic never once thinking about the emotional consequences of our ineptitude. So, with that in mind, you and every woman, needs to ask herself this question, is the man I'm to be a helpmate to, was my Adam given to me by God, or have I made my choice based on my emotions? If your man was given to you by God then you have to believe that that is the best choice for you, if he is yours because of an emotional choice then he is not God's Adam for you, but now he has become your Adam, either way you need to teach your Adam how to become complete, one flesh, that is the most important part of being a helpmate, because in emotional things we men are insensitive (as I've probably hurt your feelings in what I have written, but I assure you it's not intentional).


This is becoming too long, I hope I have answered some of your queries, there is so much to be learned about how husbands and wives are to love one another in Christ that it is hard to cover it in a thread like this, may I suggest you read "The Way of Agape," by Nancy Missler, she has answered most of your questions from experience in her own marriage.

As to your question about Eve being a maid or a doctor, you are looking at it through the lens of today, Eve was to be the mother of Adam's children, I'm not being chauvinistic, at that time in history her place was in the home, but times have changed, women have been liberated, and I say that in a good sense, they have many opportunities open to them that women didn't have just 100 years ago, also in today's society there often needs to be two paychecks to support the family, ...all I can say dear sister, Father determined to have you born during this period in time, rather than 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago, He has a plan for your life, Jer 29:11, I can assure you that it is in your best interests if you will submit to Him.


In His Love,

Gene
 
Well, I can only partly agree
And the only way you may or may not be offensive was in calling me 'precious', a term which sometimes has a sexist sting to it.

I can only partly agree with you, and I do find what you say about non-believing men interesting.

However, it does NOT say Eve's sole purpose was to bear Adam's children BEFORE the Fall from Grace. God is omniscient, yes, and we can not even imagine how that really is. He must know every option in every turn in every person's life, as he DID give us free will.

I still can not find anything in the Bible to support your point about men and emotions and women and discernment. I don't see it adding up at the moment. I have no concordance in any of my Bibles, and even if I did, I would not value them above the actual Bible.
If I look at my relationship, I need to teach this potential Adam to realise just how much his emotions (fear) controls him, and that the way he's using his 'logic' resembles a rocking chair, rather than discernment. I don't judge him for it, and in return, he's giving me the opportunity to learn patience, and to learn a thing or two about human love. Maybe that's an Y chromosome thing, PRETENDING to not be emotional. I don't know what it's like to be a man, but I see they feel anger, but pretend to be right. They feel scared, but pretend they're fearless. They feel sad, but pretend to be 'strong' (and getting strong and weak mixed up: it takes a lot more to actually face your pain). They feel happy and they show it. They feel love and endearment, and use this opportunity to admit to themselves that they do feel. And sometimes run away from it because acknowledging this makes them feel insecure, and insecure is weak (or is it?)... Correct me if I see it wrong here!

Here's another rib to chew on for you, Gene: God removed A rib and replaced it with flesh. My Bible notes that 'rib' can also be seen as 'part'.
But, later on, we learn that the flesh is weak.
 
Hey Busy,

And the only way you may or may not be offensive was in calling me 'precious', a term which sometimes has a sexist sting to it.
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I'm no longer walking in the world, but rather I like to see people as Jesus sees them, and the Word says you/me/we are precious, 1 Pet 2:4 the word is - entimos - Strong's # 1784 - dear, more honorable, precious, in reputation..., but I'll respect your feelings and no more precious, ...is beloved which means dear one okay?

The reason I tend to use terms of endearment is because it's a means to convey feeling in the cold, sterile world of cyber space.

I still can not find anything in the Bible to support your point about men and emotions and women and discernment. I don't see it adding up at the moment. I have no concordance in any of my Bibles, and even if I did, I would not value them above the actual Bible.
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Doctor, may I humbly and respectfully ask, in med school, did you use any study helps to learn your practice, or did they just give you a body and you started operating on it?

We find concordances, Bible dictionaries, topical Bibles to be of tremendous help is studying to show ourselves approved, rightly (correctly) dividing the Word of God 2 Tim 2:15, may I suggest an excellent free Bible program that is called e-Sword with all of the above references available plus many more useful tools.


For the men/emotions, women/discernment subject, please give me some time to reflect on my answer.



[QUOTEIf I look at my relationship, I need to teach this potential Adam to realise just how much his emotions (fear) controls him, and that the way he's using his 'logic' resembles a rocking chair, rather than discernment. I don't judge him for it, and in return, he's giving me the opportunity to learn patience, and to learn a thing or two about human love. Maybe that's an Y chromosome thing, PRETENDING to not be emotional. I don't know what it's like to be a man, but I see they feel anger, but pretend to be right. They feel scared, but pretend they're fearless. They feel sad, but pretend to be 'strong' (and getting strong and weak mixed up: it takes a lot more to actually face your pain). They feel happy and they show it. They feel love and endearment, and use this opportunity to admit to themselves that they do feel. And sometimes run away from it because acknowledging this makes them feel insecure, and insecure is weak (or is it?)... Correct me if I see it wrong here!][/QUOTE]

Beloved, may I ask if this potential Adam has been given to you by God, has He given you conformation in His word that this is the man He has for you?

Please allow me to share a very small part of my walk with the Lord and how He brought me to my Eve, ...my Eve lived in French Polynesia on the island of Tahiti, I lived in the Central Coast of California, in '83 she prayed for an American husband with these qualifications, older than her, played an instrument and liked working with children, in '82 I went crazy, needed to be locked up, diagnosed, paranoid, schizophrenic, depressive, ...because of my use of hallucinogenic drugs in the '60s, but in God's mercy and grace they allow me to be an out patient after they determined I was not suicidal, ...what was happening in my life was the Lord waking me up spiritually, drawing me to Himself, ...fast forward, after 18 months I was pronounced healed (not from their drugs but by reading the words of Jesus in red in a Bible that was given to me, I threw away the drugs they gave me because the first night I took them it was like coming on to acid again), ...fast forward again, in '86, in the month of July at a Wednesday night Bible Study I received Jesus Christ into my heart and was born again, at that time I was a General Contractor, the Lord told me to close my business, shortly after that He moved me to Nevada, while in Nevada He put on my heart to go to the island of Moorea, French Polynesia, He gave me certain conditions, that were impossible for me, but He was faithful and provided all, in April of '91 I found myself disembarking an airplane at FAA'A International Airport, Tahiti, French Polynesia, I was now in Tahiti where my Eve was living, but He had sent me to the island of Moorea, at nights I would take walks and remind my Heavenly Father that He was the one that said it was not good for man to be alone, where was my Eve? Finally in October of '94 He told me to go to a specific church on the island of Tahiti, as I was sitting in the pew, in walked a young woman, Father told me, "There is your Eve, she is your wife, the woman I have chosen and prepared for you." I was excited, I didn't talk to her, but rather returned to my island and prayed and asked the Lord for conformation from His Word that this was of Him (a Gideon thing), during my morning devotions He gave me Pr 18:22, I immediately was thankful, but asked for another conformation form His Word, I started attending the church where my Eve attended but had a major problem, she spoke French and at that time I didn't, after a couple of months it was evident to all we were interested in one another- duh, I was the only American in the congregation, one Sunday a sister came running towards me shouting, "Brother, brother, the Lord gave me this verse for you, Pr 18:22," voilà, my second conformation from His Word, it was 3 months before we had our first date outside of the church, it was Christmas day, we drove around the island and stopped at a botanical garden, the Lord led us to a secluded bench, we sat down and the Lord, in a supernatural way, knit our hearts together, because of the awesome, strong presence of the Holy Spirit we were both in tears (and yes, I didn't want her to see me crying so I took her in my arms and felt her sobbing too and it melted my heart), shortly after that I bought a ring and proposed to her, we were married on April 8th 1995. After a few months we were able to communicate with my pidgin French, it was then she told me of her prayer and an unspoken desire of her heart, ...that Father would give her her husband as a Christmas present on Christmas day.

He is using us to teach children of all ages, preschoolers to teenagers, also I play the piano and my bride sings praise songs with her beautiful voice, we have disagreements as most couples do, but we resolve them in the Lord, but most importantly, we fit together like a hand in a glove, she doesn't have to change me to her liking and or expectations and I don't have to change her to my liking and or expectations, ...it just works, in the Lord, ...one last thing, my Eve prayed me into the Kingdom of God, for me that is a very important reason to love and cherish her.

So you see my dear sister, what I'm saying about Father having an Adam for you, He has blessed you with an talent and an education, the Adam He has for you will be a man that not only loves God and you, but will be strong enough to lead you (if you chose an Adam who can't lead you there will be strife in the marriage).

I think you can see, I hope, I have answered your question, our marriage isn't the only one, I know of many couples that have prayed, waited and allowed Father to bring them together.


Here's another rib to chew on for you, Gene: God removed A rib and replaced it with flesh. My Bible notes that 'rib' can also be seen as 'part'.
Click to expand...

Ribs are delicious, I luv 'em!

Princess (I hope that's okay, LOL), it a typical story, an illustration, ...for every New Testament doctrine we can find an illustration of it in an Old Testament story, ...what came out of Adam's side..., a bride/wife, what poured forth from the side of Jesus as He was hanging on the Cross..., water and blood, ...the fluids of birth, what was birthed, a Bride for Christ, ...the Church.

In His Love,

Gene
 
the mistake, was disobedience ..
however, God did set them up, as to set up a plan for redemption ..
this is confirmed by the fact that names were recorded in the Book of Life since the foundations of the world ..
the reason being, is through redemption God showed us "the greatest love" which creates is able to create a heart in mankind that can love with it's all ..
we love because He first loved .. it created a bond that without failure first could not exist ..

God told Adam & Eve "do not eat from the tree of knowledge or you will surely die"
what God left out (intentionally) is that He meant spiritually not physically ..
satan knowing that, challenged God's words to Eve as false ..
applying it to the physical and not the spiritual "you surely will not die" ..
so Eve bit it and did not die physically ..
thus Adam seeing she did not die also bit of it ..
hence disbelief or lack of trust in God's word ..
but they did die spiritually (curse of death aka separation from God) ..
thus satan played into Gods plan of salvation (aka perfecting hearts) ..
God then took the tree of life away, because if He did not, then they would be eternally in spiritual death ..

if satan was smart, he would have had them eat from the tree of life before eating from the tree of knowledge ..
 
what poured forth from the side of Jesus as He was hanging on the Cross..., water and blood, ...the fluids of birth, what was birthed, a Bride for Christ, ...the Church.

In His Love,
Gene[/quote]

there are 3 that testify ..
Father = fire
Son = blood
Holy Spirit = water

Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit ..
thus not only was Jesus blood literally poured out for us, so was the Holy Spirit ..
 
thus not only was Jesus blood literally poured out for us, so was the Holy Spirit ..
Click to expand...

Yes ixoye, and thankfully the story does not end there,

We are told that God closed up the hole in the side of Adam Ge 2:21, however, apparently from what Scripture records for us, the hole in the side of Jesus has not been closed,

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. John 20:27

Interesting, sounds like it corresponds with,

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37

...the way to the Tree of Life is still open.


And in another vein, both Eve and the Bride of Christ were created from the heart, not behind the man nor in front of him, not on top of him or under his feet, ...but under his arm, a sign of protection and close to His heart.

Blessings,

Gene
 
JustPassingThru said:
We are told that God closed up the hole in the side of Adam Ge 2:21, however, apparently from what Scripture records for us, the hole in the side of Jesus has not been closed,
Blessings,
Gene
Click to expand...

very astute Gene ..
another difference between the first man and last man ..
thank you for that insight ..

Blessings
 
As far as i can see this is the greatest love story of them all... Adam knew that by eating of the forbidden fruit he with Eve would be punished by God, but he did eat of it without any hesitation. Did Adam eat the fruit because he just blindly obeyed Eve...? No, i think Adam knew that if he did not eat of it only Eve would be punished and i don't think he wanted her to bear the punishment alone knowing she may not be able to do it alone, thus he ate of the forbidden fruit and bore the same punishment as Eve. i also think that Adam unlike Eve was very much aware of his surroundings and of God's intentions, let us not forget that God walked with Adam and spoke to him often if not daily, i don't agree that Adam was naive, as for myself i feel that he knew where he was and of consequences, Eve was naive and she just in her naivete allowed satan to tempt her... this is where the weakness in mankind comes, the mind is willing but the flesh is weak. Yet, she is the one that bears children with extreme pain, no pain killers as today, and not many people around to help her give birth... imagine how difficult it was for her and yet we see the strength in her to overcome her surroundings and surviving outside of Eden...
 
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