The One Baptism of Ephesians 4

Complete

Complete

'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, ... '
(Mat 3:11a)

Hello there,

During the gospels - 1 baptism - (baptism in water)
During the Acts - 2 baptisms - (baptism in water and baptism by the Spirit)
Following the Acts period - 1 baptism - (baptism by the Spirit)

* Baptism with water unto repentance was a requirement for Israel.
and those during the Acts period who were joined to the Olive tree of Israel.

(Ephesians 4:1-6)
'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
beseech you that ye walk worthy
of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness,
with longsuffering,
forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep
the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is -
one body, and
one Spirit, even as ye are called in
one hope of your calling;
One Lord,
one faith,
one baptism,
One God and Father of all,
Who is above all,
and through all,
and in you all.

This is the unity of the Spirit, which God desires that we keep.
To continue to enact water baptism, for whatever reason,
is to walk contrary to God's will and purpose.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello there,

I was baptized with water at the age of 12 years, after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord. That was the practice of the evangelical non-denominational mission that I attended at that time.

Subsequent study has shown me that water baptism is not a requirement. On believing we are identified with Christ in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. That is the operation of the Holy Spirit, the flesh having no part in it. In the Church which is His (Christ's) Body, all is of the Spirit. and by the Spirit.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, ... '
(Mat 3:11a)

Hello there,

During the gospels - 1 baptism - (baptism in water)
During the Acts - 2 baptisms - (baptism in water and baptism by the Spirit)
Following the Acts period - 1 baptism - (baptism by the Spirit)

* Baptism with water unto repentance was a requirement for Israel.
and those during the Acts period who were joined to the Olive tree of Israel.

(Ephesians 4:1-6)
'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
beseech you that ye walk worthy
of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness,
with longsuffering,
forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep
the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is -
one body, and
one Spirit, even as ye are called in
one hope of your calling;
One Lord,
one faith,
one baptism,
One God and Father of all,
Who is above all,
and through all,
and in you all.

This is the unity of the Spirit, which God desires that we keep.
To continue to enact water baptism, for whatever reason,
is to walk contrary to God's will and purpose.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

You are completely correct Chris.

I do not remember how many times I have discussed this with people and I am glad you have brought it up.

If those who believe that water baptism is required for salvation would just stop and think they would see that the reason baptism is not necessary for salvation is that we are justified by faith and not by faith and a ceremony. You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms performed by someone. Bible circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person; but, we are saved by faith alone, and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe and not when we get baptized, otherwise, we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital or on the battlefield and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized. Remember, when someone says that baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions--otherwise it isn't necessary.

Be well Chris and continue to pose those deep things of God to cause all to think and study the Word of God for the answers.
 
Complete said:
Hello there,

I was baptized with water at the age of 12 years, after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord. That was the practice of the evangelical non-denominational mission that I attended at that time.

Subsequent study has shown me that water baptism is not a requirement. On believing we are identified with Christ in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. That is the operation of the Holy Spirit, the flesh having no part in it. In the Church which is His (Christ's) Body, all is of the Spirit. and by the Spirit.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...
I've been baptised (or as the Baptists say "keep 'em under 'til they bubble"), so many times I don't even recall them all, save the one that mattered: Baptised in the Spirit! It's gifts, sadly, are prohibited to speak of here.

Acts 19:3-7 (KJV)
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.​
 
Hello @Abdicate,

Thank you for your response.

The baptism of the Spirit, is not a secondary experience, but a silent acceptance of the believer into Christ, on believing. Acceptance Into His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. His life is then hid in Christ, awaiting His appearing, when he too will appear with Him.

He is declared, 'Complete,' in Christ, and given a Sonship spirit, by which He can cry, 'Abba, Father'. There is no fanfare, no outward sign of that inward work very often. Only by the subsequent fruit borne.

It is no longer he that lives, but Christ that lives in Him.
He lives by the faith of Him Who loved him, and gave Himself for him.

We are His workmanship.
Praise His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
Forgive me just one more comment, please.

We know that these things have taken place within, not because we feel it, not because we experience it, but because God has told us this is so.

It is a faith position of trust in the Word of Him that promised.
He is faithful, and will do it.

Praise His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris
 
Last edited:
Complete said:
Hello @Abdicate,

Thank you for your response.

The baptism of the Spirit, is not a secondary experience, but a silent acceptance of the believer into Christ, on believing. Acceptance Into His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. His life is then hid in Christ, awaiting His appearing, when he too will appear with Him.

He is declared, 'Complete,' in Christ, and given a Sonship spirit, by which He can cry, 'Abba, Father'. There is no fanfare, no outward sign of that inward work very often. Only by the subsequent fruit borne.

It is no longer he that lives, but Christ that lives in Him.
He lives by the faith of Him Who loved him, and gave Himself for him.

We are His workmanship.
Praise His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...
True baptism of the Spirit is anything but silence. :D
 
'In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13,14)

'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.'
(Eph 4:30)

* This is my experience: '... sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,' - 'unto the day of redemption.'

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
'In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13,14)

'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.'
(Eph 4:30)

* This is my experience: '... sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,' - 'unto the day of redemption.'

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...
The Spirit is grieved through disbelief; not trusting the word of God and the understanding He gives. The Holy Spirit, our downpayment, and His gifts are for us, now. We won't need them in Heaven. So ask for them. :)
 
Complete said:
'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, ... ' (Mat 3:11a)
Click to expand...
All of the NT passages that talk about people being baptized with the Holy Spirit
are referring to Jesus' special baptism of anointing, which is always confirmed by
the person speaking at least a few words in tongues.

The related "happenings" to this special baptism (such as tongues and prophecy) in the NT
do NOT occur when people are receiving the Holy Spirit as they are being born-again.

So, there are 2 different major baptisms:
by the Holy Spirit --- when new believers receive the Spirit INSIDE of them
by Jesus Himself --- when born-again believers receive the Spirit UPON them

IMO, Paul's "one baptism" comment refers to the fact that there is only one baptism
where a person is baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ's body, the church.
1 Cor 12:
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
 
Last edited:
Samuels said:
All of the NT passages that talk about people being baptized with the Holy Spirit
are referring to Jesus' special baptism of anointing, which is always confirmed by
the person speaking at least a few words in tongues.

The related "happenings" to this special baptism (such as tongues and prophecy) in the NT
do NOT occur when people are receiving the Holy Spirit as they are being born-again.

So, there are 2 different major baptisms:
by the Holy Spirit --- when new believers receive the Spirit INSIDE of them
by Jesus Himself --- when born-again believers receive the Spirit UPON them

IMO, Paul's "one baptism" comment refers to the fact that there is only one baptism
where a person is baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ's body, the church.
1 Cor 12:
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
Click to expand...

We need to know first that all Christians receive the Spirit upon their conversion and in this sense all Christians have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This means that they are saved and that they have all they need at that time to be able to live godly and holy lives and be Sons of God.

You quoted 1 Cor. 12:13 which correctly says,............
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."

Now. There is no need to speak in an unknown utterance to prove that you are saved. Salvation does not require proof.
That my dear friends is an act of testing God and that is not Biblical.

It has been my experience that there are many Christians who claim to have had a "secondary" experience which they call Baptism of the Spirit.They say that it has brought great blessing and comfort to them. Furthermore, they say that the results of the experience is a renewed dedication and appreciation for God, a stronger desire to read the Bible, a stronger desire to fellowship with Christians, and a deeper sense of worship of God.

It sounds like that is what happened to you and I am thrilled it happened to you. However, there are just as many people who say that the experience happened to them the moment they came to Christ.

The danger of this phenomena is the potential division of the body of Christ into two categories: those who are "regular" Christians and those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. This, of course, would be an incorrect way of looking at Christians and can be very dangerous.
 
Complete said:
Forgive me just one more comment, please.

We know that these things have taken place within, not because we feel it, not because we experience it, but because God has told us this is so.

It is a faith position of trust in the Word of Him that promised.
He is faithful, and will do it.

Praise His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris
Click to expand...

Correct Chris. We are not saved by emotional experiences or baptism or taking sacraments. We are saved by grace through faith and nothing more.
 
Complete said:
Then I obviously have not had that experiece, @Abdicate

May God's perfect will be done, in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

Chris......do not fall into that trap of thinking you are less then anyone else because someone has "experienced" something you have not or have spoken in a strange utterance.

Experiences do not make us children of God. Experiences only give us the opportunity to boast about them and that my dear sister is not Biblical.
I continue to be amazed at how easy it is for some to explain away Bible doctrine and replace it with what they want to believe.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. "

How can that be said any clearer???
 
Major said:
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves;
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Click to expand...
IMO, this salvation above can be lost.
Could verse 8 below describe
someone who has undergone the experience described in Ephesians 2:8-9?

Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death.

Please note that habitual sinners are placed in the same category as non-believers.
The cowardly fear whatever and do NOT place their complete trust in the Lord Jesus.
 
Last edited:
Samuels said:
IMO, this salvation above can be lost.
Could verse 8 below describe
someone who has undergone the experience described in Ephesians 2:8-9?

Revelation 21:
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death.

Please note that habitual sinners are placed in the same category as non-believers.
The cowardly fear whatever and do NOT place their complete trust in the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...

Hello Samuels. I am glad to speak with you on this subject as it is an important one and many struggle with it. However I can not agree with you my brother that a "loss of salvation" is what is in view..

What is consistent with Scripture is the fact that all believers sin and sin repeatedly as seen in 1 John 1:8, 10. Some believers actually wallow in sin as told to us in 1 Cor 3:1-3; 6:18-20; 11:30; Gal 6:1; James 5:19-20; 2 Pet 2:18-22; 3:14-18. So the view that this verse is teaching that habitual sinners must never have been saved in the first place is untenable.

And, the Bible also teaches that believers can't lose their salvation in John 4:14; 6:35; 10:28-29; Rom 8:38-39. IMO, once a person is born again, they can never be un-born. Thus the teaching of a loss-of-salvation view is also unscriptural.

So what is the teaching in Rev. 21:8????? It is all about Eternal Sinfulness that Is in View.

It is a mistake to think that this verse is describing the way the unsaved behave here and now. The verse says nothing about the current behavior of believers or unbelievers. Rather, it concerns the eternal sinfulness of unbelievers.

A parallel passage is John 8:24.........
"If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Unbelievers die in a state of sinfulness. Forever they remain sinners. Believers, however, do not remain in a state of sinfulness because they are justified by faith:

Romans 4:8...........
"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin" .

Revelation 21:8 says nothing about whether believers actually sin prior to death or not. Of course we know that they do. However, that is not in view in Rev 21:8. What is actually in view is the continued unregenerate and unjustified state of the lost. Because unbelievers upon death are sealed permanently as those who are unjustified, they remain sinners in God's sight forever.

There will be no sinners and no sin in the new heavens and the new earth.

According to 1 John 3:2, "when He is revealed, we shall be like Him."

Thanks for your question and thought on this. I hope I have been a help to you.
 
Major said:
Acts 11:17.............
"Forasmuch then as God gave them [Cornelius and his household] the like gift [the gift of the Spirit]
as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ [that's regeneration] …"
Click to expand...
Acts 11:17, NKJV
“If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us
when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ …”

First, let us recall that when Peter and the 120 received
the gift of the Holy Spirit, they spoke in tongues!
So, the gift was more than just salvation, right?

The "gift" they received was BOTH receptions of the Holy Spirit:
the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE for salvation,
and the Holy Spirit coming UPON for the special anointing
(which is “the baptism with the Holy Spirit” with the
confirmation of receiving being speaking in tongues).

Acts 10:44-46, NKJV
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word …
the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on (i.e. upon) the Gentiles also.
For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that they should not be
(water) baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ ”

It is a terrible shame that you had a poor (non-lasting) pentecostal experience!
But, of course, this was not God’s fault, nor was it mine.
 
Greetings Gentlemen,

Samuels Major just wanted to give you a friendly reminder that the topic of speaking in tongues is one that is not to be discussed here at cfs. See topics here...it's #2

Should you both feel the desire to speak to each others beliefs using Scripture...please feel free to take this conversation to a pm.

God bless you both :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top