The Problem with my Church (and many other churches, I believe)

Juk

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I will go as far as to say many churches to NOT prepare one for battle and this is why we see so many christians running to doctors for pills when it is only spititual warfare or the battle of the mind.

As far as the message you talk about hearing I have to say and I say this with NO DIS-RESPECT to you Juk BUT I would have to hear the entire message as it was spoken. I would be found in error if I made a judgment call without being there to hear.

Just keep seeking God and alowing Him to show you what is or is not something He wanted said. Too many times God has a servent speak a message that folks say was not good or God and infact God was trying to open the eyes of those who felt it was wrong. This happens a lot too. Just because a message spoken does not get all the praise does not mean it was not God.

All I am saying is..........A speaker may have saught after God for their message and God gave it to them to speak...........and folks may still want to tear it a part........
Thank You Mr. Juk for sharing this
Blessings my friend
jim
No disrespect taken. And I do need to add that to my Sunday prayers.
 
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Don't worry, no King James English for this one.

Today, I stayed in the main sanctuary as opposed to teen church because teen church was canceled. I analyzed what the guest pastor was saying. Here is what I found, and this is a very reoccurring problem in my church, and I believe many other churches as well.

The message focused not in Christ, but on blessings. It always does this. The church is a "feel-good" church, where they make you feel good so you can keep on coming back. It was of no surprise to me that the senior pastor askee everyone to put money on the altar at the end of service. My church seems very humanistic to me, focusing on the believer and not Jesus Christ. This is a deadly issue, because I am almost certain that more than half of that church is not truly saved. I want to be a pastor(/theologian) and I always told myself that if it us God's will for me to become a pastor, I would treat the people as if they were not truly saved. I would focus entirely on Christ. I believe that the pastor's main job is to help enhance the believer's personal relationship with Christ, and to teach them USEFUL doctrine, always focusing entirely on Christ (unless they want to do a throwback into the Old Testament). But I believe that they should be led by the Holy Spirit, not themselves.

In conclusion, I believe that my church, along with many other churches, is not doing its job well. What do ye (sorry, I had to) think?
While there is no problem with speaking about blessings because we receive them when we have Christ, I do know what you mean when blessings are being misinterpreted and it turns into something else and neglects the necessary parts.

There's a term for this which, I can't remember who coined it, but it's an appropriate term...it's called "The Church of Nice." In other words, when one goes to church on Sunday, where he is supposed to 1) worship God, 2) receive His graces, and 3) learn the faith better in order to become holier (meaning talking about the difficult issues too that need to be addressed), a "Church of Nice" pastor will instead go up to the pulpit, tell some funny jokes, tell us to love one another, and to be nice...and that's about it.

"We don't want to be divisive" or "We can't be judgmental" is usually the case for it. There's also "We want people to come into the church, not leave," which I hear often...but the ironic part is the more we only get the "feel-good" messages, the more bored people become, and it is less likely that people will take it seriously.
Speaking the gospel truth about how salvation is received, how damnation happens, etc. etc., is necessary yet provocative.
 
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Yes, this one church, in all the time went..not one word about Hell.
Pastor was happy to promote the book Heaven is for Real though.

I think most churches are like this...ignore Jesus warnings. Emphasize the positive over the negative.

Sometimes I notice even in Bible readings, they will cut short the chapter when starts talking about hell, so as not to offend. Guess they dont want to scare the children.
 
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While there is no problem with speaking about blessings because we receive them when we have Christ, I do know what you mean when blessings are being misinterpreted and it turns into something else and neglects the necessary parts.

There's a term for this which, I can't remember who coined it, but it's an appropriate term...it's called "The Church of Nice." In other words, when one goes to church on Sunday, where he is supposed to 1) worship God, 2) receive His graces, and 3) learn the faith better in order to become holier (meaning talking about the difficult issues too that need to be addressed), a "Church of Nice" pastor will instead go up to the pulpit, tell some funny jokes, tell us to love one another, and to be nice...and that's about it.

"We don't want to be divisive" or "We can't be judgmental" is usually the case for it. There's also "We want people to come into the church, not leave," which I hear often...but the ironic part is the more we only get the "feel-good" messages, the more bored people become, and it is less likely that people will take it seriously.
Speaking the gospel truth about how salvation is received, how damnation happens, etc. etc., is necessary yet provocative.
You do not know how very right you are my brother!
 
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Yes, this one church, in all the time went..not one word about Hell.
Pastor was happy to promote the book Heaven is for Real though.

I think most churches are like this...ignore Jesus warnings. Emphasize the positive over the negative.

Sometimes I notice even in Bible readings, they will cut short the chapter when starts talking about hell, so as not to offend. Guess they dont want to scare the children.
Just read through the posts right here on this site about hell and see what is said. In fact we are told that we can not even discuss the subject.
 
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Juk

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Yes, this one church, in all the time went..not one word about Hell.
Pastor was happy to promote the book Heaven is for Real though.

I think most churches are like this...ignore Jesus warnings. Emphasize the positive over the negative.

Sometimes I notice even in Bible readings, they will cut short the chapter when starts talking about hell, so as not to offend. Guess they dont want to scare the children.
Sometimes the children need to be scared. I was scared into becoming a Christian by a YouTube personality who was wrong about a lot of things. But I am very grateful for her.
 
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Sometimes the children need to be scared. I was scared into becoming a Christian by a YouTube personality who was wrong about a lot of things. But I am very grateful for her.
For some fear has the opposite effect. If I heard fire and brimstone in order to get me to be a christian I would not be a christian today.

It was love that won me over
 
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Juk

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For some fear has the opposite effect. If I heard fire and brimstone in order to get me to be a christian I would not be a christian today.

It was love that won me over
The thing is that I already was grown up in Christianity so I knew about Jesus already.
 
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Well Jesus talked about Heaven first and then warned about hell, not hell first and then heaven.

I suppose its diffrent strokes for different folks, but even church members kinda noticed the preacher would avoid the subject, and we were thinking why? Didn't he think we couldn't handle it? I think the majority of ppl who attended were saved already, so it's not like there would be this big uproar. But it's good to remind us what Jesus saves us from, our sins that can put us there.

Anyway..I can't tell the pastor what to preach. Actually I don't know what kind of sermons how he came up with topics every week. It seemed to be always on positive thinking, encouraging and exhorting. At least with the church I go to know, I kinda know, as he uses a lectionary. That means it's kinda what is called 'liturgical' going through the Bible stories and focusing mostly on the gospels. I noticed the first preacher tended to avoid the gospels and preach more what Paul was saying rather than talk about what Jesus did.

I find it more interesting to hear what Jesus did and meditate on that than go through church letters and say God has a plan for you all the time. (Jeremiah) and other OT stories. That's nice..but..I think sometimes people just completely forget Jesus is the only way to the Father and preaching on being chosen all the time with God is not the reality unless we actually go through his Son.

I guess that's presbyterian vs baptist differences. Baptists are known, well some of them, for preaching those hell-fire and brimstone sermons, but actually, I never heard any from the baptist church I attended either. Maybe they reserve that for the naughty kids at sunday school?
 
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Well Jesus talked about Heaven first and then warned about hell, not hell first and then heaven.

I suppose its diffrent strokes for different folks, but even church members kinda noticed the preacher would avoid the subject, and we were thinking why? Didn't he think we couldn't handle it? I think the majority of ppl who attended were saved already, so it's not like there would be this big uproar. But it's good to remind us what Jesus saves us from, our sins that can put us there.

Anyway..I can't tell the pastor what to preach. Actually I don't know what kind of sermons how he came up with topics every week. It seemed to be always on positive thinking, encouraging and exhorting. At least with the church I go to know, I kinda know, as he uses a lectionary. That means it's kinda what is called 'liturgical' going through the Bible stories and focusing mostly on the gospels. I noticed the first preacher tended to avoid the gospels and preach more what Paul was saying rather than talk about what Jesus did.

I find it more interesting to hear what Jesus did and meditate on that than go through church letters and say God has a plan for you all the time. (Jeremiah) and other OT stories. That's nice..but..I think sometimes people just completely forget Jesus is the only way to the Father and preaching on being chosen all the time with God is not the reality unless we actually go through his Son.

I guess that's presbyterian vs baptist differences. Baptists are known, well some of them, for preaching those hell-fire and brimstone sermons, but actually, I never heard any from the baptist church I attended either. Maybe they reserve that for the naughty kids at sunday school?
Sometimes it was reverse; damnation and then salvation. But whether one comes before the other isn't entirely the point...the point is that if you go to a "Church of Nice" parish, you are most likely not going to hear about hell at all...just heaven...and to skip over the problem and only recognize the solution is very dangerous.

Pastors, who take what they do seriously and do what they do to serve (not be served) tend to love hearing from their parishioners. "Father (or Pastor), thank you for all the hard work you do here. We love hearing your homilies/sermons. One subject which I've noticed to be a problem within this generation is the lack of understanding of mercy/Godly deeds/abortion/holy matrimony/parenthood/fasting/hell/etc. etc." It's not likely they will preach on the subject you brought up immediately, and depending, they may not do it at all (the customer isn't always right, if you get me), but often times, he will listen and consider it if recognizes the need to say it.

I think when people think about sermons of hell-fire and brimstone, they think of that scene from Disney's Pollyanna where Rev. Ford -- a soft-spoken man, goes up to the pulpit and continues to shout repetitively "Death comes unexpectedly!!" while talking about hell and how one goes there and then doesn't talk about how one avoids it.


When talking about hell in order to get others to understand it, it's not a good idea to skimp on what we know. And just because it isn't pleasant doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. Church really is the place we should be hearing the unpleasantness of things because we go there trusting to gain understanding of our faith, not become ignorant.
 
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Well Jesus talked about Heaven first and then warned about hell, not hell first and then heaven.

I suppose its diffrent strokes for different folks, but even church members kinda noticed the preacher would avoid the subject, and we were thinking why? Didn't he think we couldn't handle it? I think the majority of ppl who attended were saved already, so it's not like there would be this big uproar. But it's good to remind us what Jesus saves us from, our sins that can put us there.

Anyway..I can't tell the pastor what to preach. Actually I don't know what kind of sermons how he came up with topics every week. It seemed to be always on positive thinking, encouraging and exhorting. At least with the church I go to know, I kinda know, as he uses a lectionary. That means it's kinda what is called 'liturgical' going through the Bible stories and focusing mostly on the gospels. I noticed the first preacher tended to avoid the gospels and preach more what Paul was saying rather than talk about what Jesus did.

I find it more interesting to hear what Jesus did and meditate on that than go through church letters and say God has a plan for you all the time. (Jeremiah) and other OT stories. That's nice..but..I think sometimes people just completely forget Jesus is the only way to the Father and preaching on being chosen all the time with God is not the reality unless we actually go through his Son.

I guess that's presbyterian vs baptist differences. Baptists are known, well some of them, for preaching those hell-fire and brimstone sermons, but actually, I never heard any from the baptist church I attended either. Maybe they reserve that for the naughty kids at sunday school?
What Paul says in his epistles is from Jesus. There is no reason to avoid them in favour of the gospels. The epistles are there for you to learn how to grow and appropriate your faith, and to walk with God in His wisdom, and to be a productive vessel of His message and power. We all need to come to the point of our development where we develop sharp teeth to cut the meat of the word, to chew it and to take and apply the truth of it in our daily lives. Milk isn't sufficient for that.

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. 13 For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right. 14 Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.
 
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Sometimes it was reverse; damnation and then salvation. But whether one comes before the other isn't entirely the point...the point is that if you go to a "Church of Nice" parish, you are most likely not going to hear about hell at all...just heaven...and to skip over the problem and only recognize the solution is very dangerous.

Pastors, who take what they do seriously and do what they do to serve (not be served) tend to love hearing from their parishioners. "Father (or Pastor), thank you for all the hard work you do here. We love hearing your homilies/sermons. One subject which I've noticed to be a problem within this generation is the lack of understanding of mercy/Godly deeds/abortion/holy matrimony/parenthood/fasting/hell/etc. etc." It's not likely they will preach on the subject you brought up immediately, and depending, they may not do it at all (the customer isn't always right, if you get me), but often times, he will listen and consider it if recognizes the need to say it.

I think when people think about sermons of hell-fire and brimstone, they think of that scene from Disney's Pollyanna where Rev. Ford -- a soft-spoken man, goes up to the pulpit and continues to shout repetitively "Death comes unexpectedly!!" while talking about hell and how one goes there and then doesn't talk about how one avoids it.


When talking about hell in order to get others to understand it, it's not a good idea to skimp on what we know. And just because it isn't pleasant doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. Church really is the place we should be hearing the unpleasantness of things because we go there trusting to gain understanding of our faith, not become ignorant.
Just to keep it balanced, yes, my church had spoken of hell and how we all deserve to go there. Yet, God in His ultimate love for us sent His only Son in our stead.

This is why I love the Lutheran church, because they don't focus on one side or the other, rather they focus on the law in the light of unmerited Grace.
 
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Hmm.
Well. I dont really go to church just to hear sermons all the time. I can read the bible. I dont need my ears tickled.

I go for fellowship and for Jesus. Also to partake with others in the last supper. And prayer and worship together.
I do not like it when ppl ask 'did you enjoy the service' like it was meant to be some form of entertainment.

I think any church that always makes out like we all deserved to go to hell but only by the grace of God we not is kinda missing the point..after you saved you dont go back to all that basic baptism and milk preaching, you get into meatier things in his Word. So maybe its like gauging the spiritual maturity of the congregation and different churches are maybe a bit further on in their walk than others, while some just need to be reminded of the basics every now and again. Cos they have been led astray and taken their eyes off Jesus and pleasing themselves instead.

Jesus reminds churches in Revelation not to forget their first love. Also he wants us to be hot or cold, not lukewarm. He says he will spit us out of his mouth if we lukewarm about him.
 
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Just to keep it balanced, yes, my church had spoken of hell and how we all deserve to go there. Yet, God in His ultimate love for us sent His only Son in our stead.

This is why I love the Lutheran church, because they don't focus on one side or the other, rather they focus on the law in the light of unmerited Grace.
Why focus on the law?
Hmm.
Well. I dont really go to church just to hear sermons all the time. I can read the bible. I dont need my ears tickled.

I go for fellowship and for Jesus. Also to partake with others in the last supper. And prayer and worship together.
I do not like it when ppl ask 'did you enjoy the service' like it was meant to be some form of entertainment.
I enjoy church immensely! It is a time for fellowship, for lively worship, for learning from God's word, for giving, for ministering to others and for receiving ministry. I enjoy it most when I come away having ticked off all those boxes!

I think any church that always makes out like we all deserved to go to hell but only by the grace of God we not is kinda missing the point..after you saved you dont go back to all that basic baptism and milk preaching, you get into meatier things in his Word. So maybe its like gauging the spiritual maturity of the congregation and different churches are maybe a bit further on in their walk than others, while some just need to be reminded of the basics every now and again. Cos they have been led astray and taken their eyes off Jesus and pleasing themselves instead.
Pastors of good churches will mix solid food with a bit of milk because the congregation is a mixture of believers and unbelievers. Good churches should have a mixture of mature believers and unbelievers. There is something wrong with a local church whose congregation is not a mixture. Mature believers would know that they need to be outward focused and that they need to be bringing people in to hear the gospel message. We see people saved every weekend!

Jesus reminds churches in Revelation not to forget their first love. Also he wants us to be hot or cold, not lukewarm. He says he will spit us out of his mouth if we lukewarm about him.
If a congregation is comprised only of what you consider mature believers, then there is definitely some lukewarmness there.
 

Juk

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Sometimes it was reverse; damnation and then salvation. But whether one comes before the other isn't entirely the point...the point is that if you go to a "Church of Nice" parish, you are most likely not going to hear about hell at all...just heaven...and to skip over the problem and only recognize the solution is very dangerous.

Pastors, who take what they do seriously and do what they do to serve (not be served) tend to love hearing from their parishioners. "Father (or Pastor), thank you for all the hard work you do here. We love hearing your homilies/sermons. One subject which I've noticed to be a problem within this generation is the lack of understanding of mercy/Godly deeds/abortion/holy matrimony/parenthood/fasting/hell/etc. etc." It's not likely they will preach on the subject you brought up immediately, and depending, they may not do it at all (the customer isn't always right, if you get me), but often times, he will listen and consider it if recognizes the need to say it.

I think when people think about sermons of hell-fire and brimstone, they think of that scene from Disney's Pollyanna where Rev. Ford -- a soft-spoken man, goes up to the pulpit and continues to shout repetitively "Death comes unexpectedly!!" while talking about hell and how one goes there and then doesn't talk about how one avoids it.


When talking about hell in order to get others to understand it, it's not a good idea to skimp on what we know. And just because it isn't pleasant doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. Church really is the place we should be hearing the unpleasantness of things because we go there trusting to gain understanding of our faith, not become ignorant.
The Bible says not to call others "Father".
 
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The Bible says not to call others "Father".
We've had this discussion here before regarding calling priests "Father." You will find disagreement among some Christians on this point. Some believe Christ was speaking on all accounts that calling anyone but God "Father" was what was forbade. Others believe Christ was addressing a mistitling to the pharisees and speaking in hyperbole (sort of like how he did in Luke 14:26 -- we aren't supposed to hate our parents).

Anyway, I suggest we get back to the discussion since you will find disagreement on this subject among different Christians and it really doesn't allow us to go very far. We've discussed it before.
 
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Why focus on the law?
Focus is the wrong word. It is mentioned in a way as to it's original intent, to show man his sinfulness. It shows us what we must and musn't do, where as Grace shows us what God did and has done and will do.
 
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Focus is the wrong word. It is mentioned in a way as to it's original intent, to show man his sinfulness. It shows us what we must and musn't do, where as Grace shows us what God did and has done and will do.
The law demands, but grace supplies.
 
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