The Word came from heaven to free people from sin!

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Dec 19, 2014
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Crikey, everyone seems to be getting very cross in this thread. I would like to add my 'ten pence worth'.

Yes we are free'd from previous sin. This is a good thing for me personally, as I am now enabled to move forward with my life into a good and Godly place. However, we are human beings, AND we continue to sin, often. But what we can do, is, stop, think about the sinful thing we did or said, ask forgiveness, and try very very hard not to do the same thing again. Or make some sort of reparation for what we have done.

And, ladies, if some guy makes a comment on the way you look, the best way to deal with that is to put him in his place with a quick comeback! It's not the end of the world if a bloke wolf-whistles. Really?
You would just flip them the bird? Is that what you mean?
No itS not the end of the world until find yourself getting raped. But yeah.

Joseph had to ward of Pharoah wife. She was persistent.
 
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Repentence. Is not just trying very very hard but actually making up your mind not to commit sin. And commit yourself to righteousness instead. The Lord will help you, as you cant do it on your own. Hes already given you his spirit to help you walk in His ways.
 
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Crikey, everyone seems to be getting very cross in this thread. I would like to add my 'ten pence worth'.

Yes we are free'd from previous sin. This is a good thing for me personally, as I am now enabled to move forward with my life into a good and Godly place. However, we are human beings, AND we continue to sin, often. But what we can do, is, stop, think about the sinful thing we did or said, ask forgiveness, and try very very hard not to do the same thing again. Or make some sort of reparation for what we have done.

And, ladies, if some guy makes a comment on the way you look, the best way to deal with that is to put him in his place with a quick comeback! It's not the end of the world if a bloke wolf-whistles. Really?
Well said!
 
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In the words of the late, great Andy Williams "The boys watch the girls while the girls watch the boys who watch the girls go by". And so it has been since the beginning of time. Except nowadays they all seem to have their eyes glued to their phones. Which is more worrying?
 
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In the words of the late, great Andy Williams "The boys watch the girls while the girls watch the boys who watch the girls go by". And so it has been since the beginning of time. Except nowadays they all seem to have their eyes glued to their phones. Which is more worrying?
I think its best to have your eyes fixed heavenward on Jesus.
When Jesus saves us he opens our eyes to scripture and also to love others, he takes lust and coveting out of our hearts.

There is a big huge difference between looking at others bodies and outward appearance lustfully and looking at others and seeing their hearts and souls.

Many people judge others on what they look like, their outward appearance. BUt God looks on the heart. Check out 1 Samuel 16:7

Also remember Jesus was not much to look at. He was ordinary son of man. The girls did not chase after him for his body. He showed them much more.
 
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If the phones have Bibles on them..all good. We all connected now, and we can call a friend when we in danger. See we may be tempted but God always gives us a way to escape. In the days before cellphones if you were stranded somewhere you didnt know anyone, had no phone.,,you had to rely on strangers to help you if you got into sticky situation.
 
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I managed to stay alive to the grand old age of 30 without a mobile phone, before my husband (now ex) bought me a mobile phone. Then it was ring ring, ring ring. Then it was text, text. Then the world went mad. I'm in no more danger now than I was then. Now I have 2 phones. The first is for my sons, who are able to contact me if there ever is a real immediate problem (and I actually want to talk to them!). The other one is for the rest of the world, who badger me with a load of old nonsense that can always wait. And work lol. In my opinion, being constantly connected, makes people less independent, and enables them to be more foolish, because they think that whatever they do, somebody else will always save them. Which they won't, if you've just decided to hike to the top of a really big mountain and the fog sets in and you've got no phone signal.
 
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Dec 23, 2018
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1 JOHN 3 (NKJV)
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God!
Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be,
but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God
, nor is he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother.
And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.
13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you.
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.
He who does not love his brother abides in death.
15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us.
And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need,
and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments
and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ
and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.
And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Should I do chapters 1, 2, 4, 5 also?

I like verse 24 ... it reminds me of John 14 where Jesus said (paraphrasing):
"Those who love me obey My commandments."
So, I have to ask: Who gets into heaven without loving Jesus?
and ... Who gets into heaven without obey Jesus' commandments?
So do you say that a born again person who does knowingly sin....then turns away ,cannot repent ?
Some of the scripture in Hebrews seems to imply that
Ie..no more sacrifice .

But then there is the prodigal son ??
 
Sep 3, 2009
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So do you say that a born again person who does knowingly sin....then turns away ,cannot repent ?
Some of the scripture in Hebrews seems to imply that
Ie..no more sacrifice .

But then there is the prodigal son ??
The phrase in Hebrews you mentioned is...….Hebrews 10:26 which says:
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,"

This is a warning against "Apostasy".

Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Having turned his back on the truth, and with full knowledge choosing to willfully and continually sin, the apostate is then beyond salvation because he has rejected the one true sacrifice for sins: the Lord Jesus Christ. If Christ’s sacrifice is rejected, then all hope of salvation is gone.

When that happens there is then nothing left for them as the sacrifice of Christ was done one for all who believe and when that is refused there is nothing else to save a man.
 
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Dec 24, 2018
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It really amazes me how much people are fighting against doing good works... I am not sure what it is, but if someone comes along and preaches that we should obey God, they are immediately attacked and want to be proven wrong. I think the bottom line of this discussion is this: Do we want to obey God or not?

If we want to obey God, then we would encourage those that are both teaching it and practicing it in our own lives, and we would make efforts to do so ourselves.

If we don't want to obey God, then we will fight tooth and nail against anyone that suggests such a thing.

I think people need to really pray for the Holy spirit (and when I say Holy spirit, I don't mean our feelings, or what our pastor or some YouTube teacher said, rather I mean the Holy spirit as explained by Jesus Himself in John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.")

If our spirit is fighting to not bring to remembrance Jesus and what He taught, then we must seriously consider what spirit is leading us... according to Jesus, if it isn't bringing us back to His teachings, then it isn't His spirit we have.

In peace
 
Sep 3, 2009
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It really amazes me how much people are fighting against doing good works... I am not sure what it is, but if someone comes along and preaches that we should obey God, they are immediately attacked and want to be proven wrong. I think the bottom line of this discussion is this: Do we want to obey God or not?

If we want to obey God, then we would encourage those that are both teaching it and practicing it in our own lives, and we would make efforts to do so ourselves.

If we don't want to obey God, then we will fight tooth and nail against anyone that suggests such a thing.

I think people need to really pray for the Holy spirit (and when I say Holy spirit, I don't mean our feelings, or what our pastor or some YouTube teacher said, rather I mean the Holy spirit as explained by Jesus Himself in John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.")

If our spirit is fighting to not bring to remembrance Jesus and what He taught, then we must seriously consider what spirit is leading us... according to Jesus, if it isn't bringing us back to His teachings, then it isn't His spirit we have.

In peace
I agree with you.

The problem and the contention comes when someone insists that Works must be done in order to be or stay saved.

Works do not have anything to do with us being saved. We are saved wholly by GRACE through faith and NOT of works.

However, when we are saved, works or good deeds then becomes the "by-product" of our salvation.

In other words, we should want to do good things because we are saved and not to be saved.

Should we want to obey the laws and commandments of God??? That is a no brainer!! Absolutely we should. The reality then is that we can not keep the Law and the keeping of the Law never saved anyone as it was not an instrument of salvation at all.
 
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I agree with you.

The problem and the contention comes when someone insists that Works must be done in order to be or stay saved.

Works do not have anything to do with us being saved. We are saved wholly by GRACE through faith and NOT of works.

However, when we are saved, works or good deeds then becomes the "by-product" of our salvation.

In other words, we should want to do good things because we are saved and not to be saved.

Should we want to obey the laws and commandments of God??? That is a no brainer!! Absolutely we should. The reality then is that we can not keep the Law and the keeping of the Law never saved anyone as it was not an instrument of salvation at all.
As Jesus said," We will know a false teacher by their fruits (Matthew 7)". This scripture is key in knowing whether or not a teaching is of God or not. I have to say that the 'saved by grace' doctrine has caused many bad fruits in the people that obey that doctrine.

I am certain that this doctrine was made to give people an excuse to sin. That is what happened back in the early church, and why Paul said that we, "shouldn't sin so grace can abound". People today are doing the same thing as those of old: Making following Jesus not important for salvation. This is a lie. No where in Jesus' formula for being saved does it say that we don't have to do any good work to be saved. On the contrary, the teachings of Jesus is full of teachings that say we must do something in order to enter heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone saying Lord, Lord, will enter Heaven (or be saved), but only those that do the Will of His Father." Here we must do God's will to be saved. This is an action.

John 3:16 Whosoever believe Jesus will be saved. Again, we must believe Jesus in order to be saved. An action.
NOTE: I think this is the most twisted scripture in all of the Bible . They turn the word believe into a meaningless theological belief (i.e., all we must do is believe that Jesus was alive and did some nice things, in order to consider that we believe Him). This type of faith even the devils have! (James 2) We wouldn't say that the devils are saved because they believe in Jesus in this way now would we?

Luke 14:33 Whosoever doesn't forsake all that He has cannot be my disciple. Here is another work we must do that is a pre-requisite to being saved. Notice that it says, "Whosoever" does not do..., this is the same 'whosoever' that John 3:16 uses. People will say this teaching in Luke 14 was only for the Jews of Jesus' time, and not for everybody else. If this is true, then so is John 3:16! Of course, that is not true. Both commands in John 3 and Luke 14 are for people that want to follow Jesus, you know, the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE.

The reason I don't agree with the false grace teaching that most churches teach is because it gives people an excuse to toss every other teaching of Jesus out the window, and stick to the teachings that 'tickle their ears'. Since these people say obeying Jesus has nothing to do with salvation they feel justified in not obeying these seemingly difficult teachings, and still want to consider themselves saved, because they just don't want to conform their lives to Christ. Sure they do profess Him as Lord Lord on Sundays. By the way they live their lives, however, shows that they aren't really interested in believing in the Jesus of the Bible, rather a comfortable Jesus that revolves around what they want to do or don't do. Not based on the rock that Jesus' teachings represents... (Matthew 7:23-25)

In peace

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Its the First One
 
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Sep 3, 2009
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As Jesus said," We will know a false teacher by their fruits (Matthew 7)". This scripture is key in knowing whether or not a teaching is of God or not. I have to say that the 'saved by grace' doctrine has caused many bad fruits in the people that obey that doctrine.

I am certain that this doctrine was made to give people an excuse to sin. That is what happened back in the early church, and why Paul said that we, "shouldn't sin so grace can abound". People today are doing the same thing as those of old: Making following Jesus not important for salvation. This is a lie. No where in Jesus' formula for being saved does it say that we don't have to do any good work to be saved. On the contrary, the teachings of Jesus is full of teachings that say we must do something in order to enter heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone saying Lord, Lord, will enter Heaven (or be saved), but only those that do the Will of His Father." Here we must do God's will to be saved. This is an action.

John 3:16 Whosoever believe Jesus will be saved. Again, we must believe Jesus in order to be saved. An action.
NOTE: I think this is the most twisted scripture in all of the Bible . They turn the word believe into a meaningless theological belief (i.e., all we must do is believe that Jesus was alive and did some nice things, in order to consider that we believe Him). This type of faith even the devils have! (James 2) We wouldn't say that the devils are saved because they believe in Jesus in this way now would we?

Luke 14:33 Whosoever doesn't forsake all that He has cannot be my disciple. Here is another work we must do that is a pre-requisite to being saved. Notice that it says, "Whosoever" does not do..., this is the same 'whosoever' that John 3:16 uses. People will say this teaching in Luke 14 was only for the Jews of Jesus' time, and not for everybody else. If this is true, then so is John 3:16! Of course, that is not true. Both commands in John 3 and Luke 14 are for people that want to follow Jesus, you know, the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE.

The reason I don't agree with the false grace teaching that most churches teach is because it gives people an excuse to toss every other teaching of Jesus out the window, and stick to the teachings that 'tickle their ears'. Since these people say obeying Jesus has nothing to do with salvation they feel justified in not obeying these seemingly difficult teachings, and still want to consider themselves saved, because they just don't want to conform their lives to Christ. Sure they do profess Him as Lord Lord on Sundays. By the way they live their lives, however, shows that they aren't really interested in believing in the Jesus of the Bible, rather a comfortable Jesus that revolves around what they want to do or don't do. Not based on the rock that Jesus' teachings represents... (Matthew 7:23-25)

In peace

Moderator Edit
Discussions on O.S.A.S in any form is prohibited within the forum.
See Topics Not To Be Discussed HERE
Its the First One
I hear you and understand your premise. However, if you look closer at what Paul said which you quoted, we see him answer his own rhetorical question by saying NO!" "May it never be!". That is also the answer to your argument that Grace is a license to sin.

Paul actually said----We are not to continue in sin so that grace might increase. That is a wrong conclusion to draw from his radical teaching on justification by grace through faith alone.

The Scriptures CONTEXTUALLY teach us that we are saved by God’s grace, we are eternally kept by God’s grace.
We are not saved by our works, and we do not have to work to keep that salvation unto eternal life. God does not give us a little forgiveness here and a little forgiveness there as in confessing to keep “short accounts” with God.

God does not save us by grace without works to then deal with us on the basis of our works. It is not our obedience that saved us, and it is not our obedience that keeps us saved.

Romans 5:19...……..
For as by one man’s [Adam’s] disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous”.

Our performance does not give us a right standing before Father God—our working does not keep us from daily sins any more than our working keeps us out of hell.

We do not have to work to be accepted of God, for He has made us according to Ephesians 1:6-7...………
“accepted in the Beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Now then, is that the Word of God or is it not. Can that Scripture simply be ignored because we want to believe something else??????

God’s grace is everything that Father God can do for us through His Son, Jesus Christ says 2 Corth. 8:9...……..
“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich” .
 
Dec 24, 2018
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I hear you and understand your premise. However, if you look closer at what Paul said which you quoted, we see him answer his own rhetorical question by saying NO!" "May it never be!". That is also the answer to your argument that Grace is a license to sin.

Paul actually said----We are not to continue in sin so that grace might increase. That is a wrong conclusion to draw from his radical teaching on justification by grace through faith alone.

The Scriptures CONTEXTUALLY teach us that we are saved by God’s grace, we are eternally kept by God’s grace.
We are not saved by our works, and we do not have to work to keep that salvation unto eternal life. God does not give us a little forgiveness here and a little forgiveness there as in confessing to keep “short accounts” with God.

God does not save us by grace without works to then deal with us on the basis of our works. It is not our obedience that saved us, and it is not our obedience that keeps us saved.

Romans 5:19...……..
For as by one man’s [Adam’s] disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous”.

Our performance does not give us a right standing before Father God—our working does not keep us from daily sins any more than our working keeps us out of hell.

We do not have to work to be accepted of God, for He has made us according to Ephesians 1:6-7...………
“accepted in the Beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

Now then, is that the Word of God or is it not. Can that Scripture simply be ignored because we want to believe something else??????

God’s grace is everything that Father God can do for us through His Son, Jesus Christ says 2 Corth. 8:9...……..
“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich” .
No. That is not the Word of God. Jesus is The Word Of God (John 1:1 & Revelation 19:13)

Though you capitalized the word 'contextually' to imply that I am not keeping things into context, it actually shows what YOU are doing (i.e., not keeping things in context).

Jesus is clear that we can lose our salvation. Our works prove our faith. They can't be separated, because they are one in the same. James 2 is clear on that.

Matthew 7:21 says that anyone that doesn't do the will of God won't enter Heaven. These are people that professed Jesus as Lord, but they didn't have the works to back up their faith.

Matthew 25 that talks about the sheep and the goats. Some people are allowed in because they helped the poor, needy, widows, etc. And some were rejected because they didn't do help the poor. These are again people that professed Jesus as Lord with their lips, but didn't have the works to prove they have faith in Jesus.

Read all the letters to the Churches in Revelation. There are many examples of Jesus saying that they will lose their salvation if they didn't repent of their sinful ways and turn back to Christ. These are all people that were a part of the early churches.

Just because people take a handful of verses from Paul to build a doctrine around, doesn't make it the Word of God. Jesus alone is the Word of God, and His teachings are the rock of any true Christians faith (Matthew 7:23-25). If someone finds isolated verses from Paul to try and negate Jesus, then I will do what Paul tells us to do in Galatians 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we already preached, let Him Be ACCURSED." Paul understood that people were using His letters to come up with doctrines that were contrary to the Gospel of Christ. He wanted to make it clear that this shouldn't be so. Peter also makes mention of people twisting Paul's words to their own destruction. This pattern of taking Paul or another Bible writers words to negate Jesus, is just an attempt to fight against Jesus and His words. Since we can't fight it head on, we must run from it and find shelter in a place that tickles our ears rather than coming face to face with the Cornerstone (Jesus).

I will be cautious that we don't fight against Jesus and His requirements for us. The gospels are filled with teachings that Jesus said we must do if we want to remain saved and receive God's gift.

John 15 is a good chapter to read to help putting what it means to truly love Christ.

Just to be clear. I am not advocating faith in the OT law, rather I am advocating faith in Jesus, the Son of God, Word of God.

In peace
 

Fish Catcher Jim

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Blessings
 
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