Thinking Exercise: Is Christianity Right?

[DavidG]

Alas! I completely forgot about this thread! Sorry I built up that answer and then bailed out!!

"The theologian considers sin mainly as an offence against God; the moral philosopher as contrary to reasonableness."
Thomas Aquinas

Fortuitous that you mention Aquinas! His "Best of all possible worlds" gambit is exactly the kind of hypothetical I was talking about. True or not, it shows that omnipotent goodness and the existence of sin are not an explicit contradiction.

A well thought out response. Thanks.
I'll expand on your reference to Isaiah 55:8-9 by making the observation that its import would then first call into question the validity of everything we think we know about God and faith and scripture.

While I think the import of Isa. 55:8-9 is huge almost never given fair consideration, I think this may overstate it. His ways and thoughts are higher, and that may call into question all human conjecture and allegory, but fortunately that is not all we have. It does not, for instance, call into question what He explicitly says about Himself.

 

[CCW95A]

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The Lord God was talking about a people who were doing wickedness when he said my thoughts are higher than your thoughts, and my thought are not your thoughts. But, this is not true in the New Testament, as His thoughts are our thoughts and his ways are our ways.
How can someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit, not know the thoughts of God or not know his ways?

1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

When we are filled with the Spirit of God, we are filled with His thoughts!!!

 

[Scripture Bird]

Alas! I completely forgot about this thread! Sorry I built up that answer and then bailed out!!

Fortuitous that you mention Aquinas! His "Best of all possible worlds" gambit is exactly the kind of hypothetical I was talking about. True or not, it shows that omnipotent goodness and the existence of sin are not an explicit contradiction.


While I think the import of Isa. 55:8-9 is huge almost never given fair consideration, I think this may overstate it. His ways and thoughts are higher, and that may call into question all human conjecture and allegory, but fortunately that is not all we have. It does not, for instance, call into question what He explicitly says about Himself.

And by what method or avenue do we learn of the explicit statement about Himself?

 

[DavidG]

And by what method or avenue do we learn of the explicit statement about Himself?

Scripture carries the history of His interaction with us. Within it we find explicit, implicit, and allegorical statements about His nature. Part of exegesis is being conservative about which is which and honest about how much of yourself you are bringing to your interpretation.

 

[DavidG]

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

The Lord God was talking about a people who were doing wickedness when he said my thoughts are higher than your thoughts, and my thought are not your thoughts. But, this is not true in the New Testament, as His thoughts are our thoughts and his ways are our ways.
How can someone who is filled with the Holy Spirit, not know the thoughts of God or not know his ways?

1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

When we are filled with the Spirit of God, we are filled with His thoughts!!!

Hmm, when I look at it, the context of the song of Isa 54-55 seems to be reuniting and reintroducing God to His people. The couplet in vs 7 seems to work with vs 6 highlighting divine justice and mercy rather than changing the addressing of all the following stanzas to apply only to the wicked. The poetic language from 8 through 13 is internally consistant as it is and many Bibles will even set it apart physically from 7 through line spacing.

But I definitely do agree with your use of 1Co 2:11-12. I agree God's Spirit interprets the things of God, including His nature, but nowhere near in His entirety. The Spirit gives what it will to who it will, which is why there are so many parts of the body of Christ, why Paul can still acknowledge mystery and why, for now, we still see as in a glass darkly. I think God's holiness still baffles the best of us in many things.

 

[CCW95A]

Hmm, when I look at it, the context of the song of Isa 54-55 seems to be reuniting and reintroducing God to His people. The couplet in vs 7 seems to work with vs 6 highlighting divine justice and mercy rather than changing the addressing of all the following stanzas to apply only to the wicked. The poetic language from 8 through 13 is internally consistant as it is and many Bibles will even set it apart physically from 7 through line spacing.

But I definitely do agree with your use of 1Co 2:11-12. I agree God's Spirit interprets the things of God, including His nature, but nowhere near in His entirety. The Spirit gives what it will to who it will, which is why there are so many parts of the body of Christ, why Paul can still acknowledge mystery and why, for now, we still see as in a glass darkly. I think God's holiness still baffles the best of us in many things.

Looking through a glass darkly is only referenced to a young child who knows very little of God and his ways, to an adult who sees clearly the face of God. Being "baffled" by the Lord's holiness can be done away with once we become grounded in his love to where we can know all about his love that is beyond mere human knowledge and understanding.

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[Mike Flanaganmenstein]

Good luck playing devils advocate and asking that type of question! When I did something similar people nearly threatened my life!

Yes Yahweh does exist. The Bible is the biggest piece of evidence. The Bible did not write itself and part of it is clearly inspired by a higher source.

 

[Scripture Bird]

Scripture carries the history of His interaction with us. Within it we find explicit, implicit, and allegorical statements about His nature. Part of exegesis is being conservative about which is which and honest about how much of yourself you are bringing to your interpretation.

Well said. God bless. (Hugs)