Thou shalt ask no questions...ever!

[CoffeeDrinker]

A quick history: I did not believe in God, Jesus or the Bible. I had almost no experience with the “Church” or any knowledge of the Bible. Then all that literally changed in a moment. My soul was set on fire and a passion for Jesus was ignited within me that burned so strong that I was actually scared it would consume me. I started to pray. I started to read and study the Bible. I joined the congregation that some of my family members attended and I got a very rude awakening. Our congregation was small and no one in the congregation really had healthy bank balances, which meant that we struggled financially as a “Church”. Our Pastor was transferred to a different congregation that effectively left us Pastor-less. We had discussions about the way forward, weighing up pros and cons. Should we appoint a new full time Pastor (who would need a salary), or would we carry on with lay preachers? This was the focus of a discussion we had when a representative of “Head Office” (the main Church board) paid us a visit. We were discussing these options when he reminded us that we could get by with a lay preacher, but that we would have to get a “qualified Pastor” in on the days that we have communion and when there are baptisms to be done. This had me completely confused. After the meeting when everyone was having tea and coffee I asked him why only “qualified” Pastors could do communion and baptisms and he replied that it was the doctrines of the “Church”. I then asked the most forbidden question imaginable (it sure felt that way) when I asked him where it said that in the Bible. It was just a question (not being knowledgeable about Church practises etc), but the aggressive and confrontational reply that I received from him for asking this came as a bit of a shock to me. The Bible instructs us to question everything so that we can find what is good and what is right. It goes as far as to say that only the Bible can be used for doctrine and reproof. It seems to me though that the “Church” that teaches us to study and to live the Word of God, sadly rebukes us when we do. This and other experiences have turned me away from “Traditional Churches”, but thank God, hasn’t turned me away from my faith. I was wondering if there were any of you who have had similar experiences with the “Church” and how you have handled it. Are we to not ask questions at all? Should we blindly believe and follow whatever the “Church” says without consulting the Word of God? Has the “Church” strayed so far from the truth that they are willing to compromise the Word of God to protect their own “truth”? As someone new to the faith this incident could easily have sent me back to my “old ways” and I cannot help but wonder if this is not the reason why the pews are getting emptier.

I was a member of the same church throughout my sons childhood. My son also attended private school through the christian school our church governed over. I was also very good friends with the pastor / his wife and their sons who played sports with my son. We were all very close. I was also close to a lot of the leaders within the church. Then one day division started to brew in the church. I started to see the ugly side of the business that goes on behind the church. Most people only see what goes on in the church, but since i was friends with everyone I attended a lot meetings and saw the business side. My son saw things he didn't like, too. We then started to see compromise take part in the church. Long story short our church split and the pastor moved his entire family out of state.

Everything that I saw really hurt my son and me spiritually. I stayed out of church for a long time and I think I was bitter towards all Christians and churches. I would go to church here and there but I would not commit to any one of them because I was hyper critical of everything with these churches. I now realize I was wrong in how I allowed this to affect me and I was wrong in carrying that around to every church and making them accountable for what I went through.

This is something God to had to really deliver me of because I was so hurt by the church and some of the leaders. It hurt my spirit what I saw. It was not of God, in my opinion.

It took me way too long to let it go, but I am very happy to say I have finally joined a church and back in fellowship where I know I belong. When I walk into this church my heart actually feels happy and I smile on the inside. I feel I am finally where I belong.
God was so good to never leave me while I was going through this. He encouraged me so much, but I let the hurt get in the way.

So glad He never gave up on me and loved me enough to lead me to the place that I have longed to be for many years. I feel I am in the right place.

 

[Truthfrees]

Very true it is not ever ok for a sheep to correct their shepherd however it was only a question to why only one of their so called Qualified pastors could do communion .

That in itself is dumb!!



However if He was not intending on a church then why Bother calling those to Preach and Teach and Equip the sheep?



This is always a good thing especially when added to also sitting under the authority of a Leader, Shepherd, Pastor etc.

More times then none, when one only meets in these small groups, they tend to not grow very much and get stuck in doctrines.

Far too many people think they have the right and are called to judge God's servants as if it's their calling.

Well it is a calling but it ain't Called of by the Lord! !

Blessings my Dear Brother
FCJ

yes all good points - i appreciate your view point on each subject you mentioned

1. just asking a question should not have warranted an aggressive answer

2. because we are THE church, and because THE church gathered together wherever they could - homes - fields - etc - if believers don't like the culture they find in the institution i don't worry about the lack of institutional pastors and teachers - because God will raise up small group pastors teachers evangelists etc

3. small groups getting stuck in doctrines? - yes true - it can happen in any group - large or small

4. judging leaders is not a good thing - just as judging each other is not a good thing either - it defiles many to do that kind of thing - we are to think on all things lovely praiseworthy etc - gossiping and backbiting is a poison that ruins whole groups

God Bless you my dear brother

i enjoy your posts as always

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

1. just asking a question should not have warranted an aggressive answer

Amen, I mean how do you learn if if don't ask?

because we are THE church, and because THE church gathered together wherever they could - homes - fields - etc - if believers don't like the culture they find in the institution i don't worry about the lack of institutional pastors and teachers - because God will raise up small group pastors teachers evangelists etc

Well that's true the early church did meet in homes etc but let's look at a couple of things.

This was New. A new beginning in Christ which was not known. As the number of Christians grew they needed to gather together.

They did not have all these buildings and as Pastors were raised up they taught in the best place their group could meet.

Most times now a days, churches split and home churches start from disobedience and pride and not getting things their way.
To many people today hate authority even in the body of Christ.

You say God will raise up pastors for these small gtoups. Perhaps and perhaps the same spirit that led them to breakaway in the first place is influencing them.

God has a place where He wants you to be. He has Anointed men their with everything you need to follow His plan.

So when folks get to acting like....
Oh that pastor he likes fancy watches or has too nice of a car or aways talking about these things and I don't want to or the music is not right or that drummer plays rock music too or they won't change this or do that so I am out of here and starting my own home church.

Brother GOD Is Not In That!!
God sends you there....You Stay there.

People today think they have a say in what a Pastors Teaches.....as one of my Texas Spiritual Father's would say....Bull!!

A Pastor teaches what God says and that's that. If the Holy Spirit changes direction then you simply follow.
A Pastor Never Preaches on what the people want, if he is truly following God.

I enjoy home group meetings and love feast and all that very much, however these are not ever to replace where God has called you to sit.

Brother I am not dumping this on you per se, just simply borrowing your platform here.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Amen, I mean how do you learn if if don't ask?



Well that's true the early church did meet in homes etc but let's look at a couple of things.

This was New. A new beginning in Christ which was not known. As the number of Christians grew they needed to gather together.

They did not have all these buildings and as Pastors were raised up they taught in the best place their group could meet.

Most times now a days, churches split and home churches start from disobedience and pride and not getting things their way.
To many people today hate authority even in the body of Christ.

You say God will raise up pastors for these small gtoups. Perhaps and perhaps the same spirit that led them to breakaway in the first place is influencing them.

God has a place where He wants you to be. He has Anointed men their with everything you need to follow His plan.

So when folks get to acting like....
Oh that pastor he likes fancy watches or has too nice of a car or aways talking about these things and I don't want to or the music is not right or that drummer plays rock music too or they won't change this or do that so I am out of here and starting my own home church.

Brother GOD Is Not In That!!
God sends you there....You Stay there.

People today think they have a say in what a Pastors Teaches.....as one of my Texas Spiritual Father's would say....Bull!!

A Pastor teaches what God says and that's that. If the Holy Spirit changes direction then you simply follow.
A Pastor Never Preaches on what the people want, if he is truly following God.

I enjoy home group meetings and love feast and all that very much, however these are not ever to replace where God has called you to sit.

Brother I am not dumping this on you per se, just simply borrowing your platform here.

Blessings
FCJ

I agree.
And TEXAS rules. We just cannot help being such an awesome group of people.....

 

[Truthfrees]

Amen, I mean how do you learn if if don't ask?



Well that's true the early church did meet in homes etc but let's look at a couple of things.

This was New. A new beginning in Christ which was not known. As the number of Christians grew they needed to gather together.

They did not have all these buildings and as Pastors were raised up they taught in the best place their group could meet.

Most times now a days, churches split and home churches start from disobedience and pride and not getting things their way.
To many people today hate authority even in the body of Christ.

You say God will raise up pastors for these small gtoups. Perhaps and perhaps the same spirit that led them to breakaway in the first place is influencing them.

God has a place where He wants you to be. He has Anointed men their with everything you need to follow His plan.

So when folks get to acting like....
Oh that pastor he likes fancy watches or has too nice of a car or aways talking about these things and I don't want to or the music is not right or that drummer plays rock music too or they won't change this or do that so I am out of here and starting my own home church.

Brother GOD Is Not In That!!
God sends you there....You Stay there.

People today think they have a say in what a Pastors Teaches.....as one of my Texas Spiritual Father's would say....Bull!!

A Pastor teaches what God says and that's that. If the Holy Spirit changes direction then you simply follow.
A Pastor Never Preaches on what the people want, if he is truly following God.

I enjoy home group meetings and love feast and all that very much, however these are not ever to replace where God has called you to sit.

Brother I am not dumping this on you per se, just simply borrowing your platform here.

Blessings
FCJ

not a problem at all my dear brother

we all need to follow God and do what he says

for years i wanted to go to a church but God told me no

my church friends would come visit me and say they never experienced God or got so encouraged to follow God as they did around me, yet the wanted me to go to church

so did i, but God said no

the pressure christians put on me to go to church was relentless but what could i do when God said no

i went to church a few times without asking God and boy did i pay for it

bad news to disobey God

now after many years i go to synagogue and a wof church and a home meeting

so i am really making up for lost time

i only want to present the other side of it in case someone is like i was

we each must be God directed

it's dangerous to be man directed

i've been there done that

i've also made crazy stupid mistakes on my own

always because i didn't find out and/or do what God wanted me to do

may we all hear God so clearly and follow God so precisely that we glorify God extravagantly

 

[Major]

when i so many times wanted to do what you did God told me that it was not the place of a sheep to correct a leader - so pray instead

God also told me that He was speaking to them and they were not listening, so they for sure were not going to listen to me

i understand your innocent question and am sorry for the aggressive reply you got

i have known many others that asked innocent questions and got a similarly aggressive answer

praying for you to find good friends here and irl who love the Lord with all their heart

i do attend church but one thing i have noticed - scripture does not say go to church

it says forsake not the gathering of yourselves together

it also says where 2 or 3 are gathered in MY name - there am I in your midst

so it is good to find believers to gather with, but imo it doesn't have to be a church

imo, it could be a home meeting, prayer meeting - anywhere people gather in Jesus' name

praying for you my dear friend

God bless you

You said.................
"i do attend church but one thing i have noticed - scripture does not say go to church".

What about Hebrews 10:25 -...........
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Then what about Matthew 18:20 ...........
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

then there is Psalms 27:4 ............
"One [thing] have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple."

There are many, many more Scriptures which tell us that we all need to attend God's church, but I think these 3 will do.

Bless you brother and go to Church!!

 

[Major]

I was a member of the same church throughout my sons childhood. My son also attended private school through the christian school our church governed over. I was also very good friends with the pastor / his wife and their sons who played sports with my son. We were all very close. I was also close to a lot of the leaders within the church. Then one day division started to brew in the church. I started to see the ugly side of the business that goes on behind the church. Most people only see what goes on in the church, but since i was friends with everyone I attended a lot meetings and saw the business side. My son saw things he didn't like, too. We then started to see compromise take part in the church. Long story short our church split and the pastor moved his entire family out of state.

Everything that I saw really hurt my son and me spiritually. I stayed out of church for a long time and I think I was bitter towards all Christians and churches. I would go to church here and there but I would not commit to any one of them because I was hyper critical of everything with these churches. I now realize I was wrong in how I allowed this to affect me and I was wrong in carrying that around to every church and making them accountable for what I went through.

This is something God to had to really deliver me of because I was so hurt by the church and some of the leaders. It hurt my spirit what I saw. It was not of God, in my opinion.

It took me way too long to let it go, but I am very happy to say I have finally joined a church and back in fellowship where I know I belong. When I walk into this church my heart actually feels happy and I smile on the inside. I feel I am finally where I belong.
God was so good to never leave me while I was going through this. He encouraged me so much, but I let the hurt get in the way.

So glad He never gave up on me and loved me enough to lead me to the place that I have longed to be for many years. I feel I am in the right place.

Churches are like people because they are made up by people. Then remember, all the people in church are saved sinners but still sinners and what do all sinners do.................
Sin.

In every church there pops up the sin of Pride, and Anger, and Bitterness among the people. It has been my experience now for more years than I can remember that the "attitude" and the lack there of always begins at the top in every church. If the pastor does not sense the division or the conflict then it is because he does not want to see it and get involved. It is the old "Head in the sand" doctrine.

Of course that only leads to more and more "clickeness" and taking sides and bitterness grows. The Pastor and in agreement with his deacon/elders must act as soon as the smoke is smelled from the fire of dissention. The Bible is very clear in that we are to go to the person one on one and work out the division. If that does not work we are to take a witness and if that fails it is then to be brought to the congregation.

If the conflict is allowed to simmer, the smoke will become thicker and before you know it, the campfire has turned into a 3 alarm fire.

Barney Fife had it right all along................"Nip it in the Bud"!!!!

 

[Truthfrees]

You said.................
"i do attend church but one thing i have noticed - scripture does not say go to church".

What about Hebrews 10:25 -...........
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Then what about Matthew 18:20 ...........
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

then there is Psalms 27:4 ............
"One [thing] have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple."

There are many, many more Scriptures which tell us that we all need to attend God's church, but I think these 3 will do.

Bless you brother and go to Church!!

i do

off to synagogue right now

off to church tomorrow

and gathering together in the name of the Lord in a weekly house meeting where people are getting healed of things like cancer when we pray

and gathering with my family and friends (which includes my Pastor and his wife) each day at my parents' house for prayer and bible study

believe me dear brother - i do gather with THE church - just not necessarily IN a building called "church"

and all with the knowledge/blessing of my Pastor and my Rabbi who both have the same understanding I do of what God meant by gathering together in the name of the Lord

God Bless you my dear friend

 

[Major]

i do

off to synagogue right now

off to church tomorrow

and gathering together in the name of the Lord in a weekly house meeting where people are getting healed of things like cancer when we pray

and gathering with my family and friends (which includes my Pastor and his wife) each day at my parents' house for prayer and bible study

believe me dear brother - i do gather with THE church - just not necessarily IN a building called "church"

and all with the knowledge/blessing of my Pastor and my Rabbi who both have the same understanding I do of what God meant by gathering together in the name of the Lord

God Bless you my dear friend

I agree. The church is not a building but the hearts of believers knit together by the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus Christ.

It does sound like you have the rightt idea in that you are gathering with believers to worship the Lord Jesus.

 

[sandpiper]

Should we blindly believe and follow whatever the “Church” says without consulting the Word of God? Has the “Church” strayed so far from the truth that they are willing to compromise the Word of God to protect their own “truth”? As someone new to the faith this incident could easily have sent me back to my “old ways” and I cannot help but wonder if this is not the reason why the pews are getting emptier.

Yes, many churches (mainline denominations included) have certain church practices and traditions about how they do a particular thing which they have developed over time. It is always good to question that and to see if it does or doesn't line up with the Word of God. The pews are getting empty because of many things in which churches have wandered, but one is likely that some remain very much stuck in some of their practices.

Change, however, usually comes from within. And as the old saying goes, not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater." Keep asking questions and don't let this experience dismay you. You just might be someone God is making aware of the need for change and there may be ways in which you can do just that and have a good influence. I am guessing there are others doing the same.

Keep praying and don't rush out the door but if there are other indications as well this could mean you are to move on.

Thanks for sharing. The responses here are so enlightening. I came to the thread late so have read them and gleaned from the insights and scriptures shared. What a wonderful welcome for you to the forum! Prayers for your continued guidance in your journey. Peace to you.