Thoughts on poker?

[Skipper]

Hello all,

I’m new here so I’ll give a brief background. I’m married with two young children, work in the mental health field, doing well financially.

I enjoy poker. I like the challenge and the outwitting nature of it. I enjoy playing for fun with no money involved with people at work on our lunch breaks. I study the game and the more I study, the more I realize the amount of skill involved (although luck is certainly a factor).

I play poker for money once every year or two at the World Series of Poker. I play in tournaments that you pay a flat fee to join and you can win money if you finish near the top.

I’m struggling with understanding if it is a sin or not when I play in these tournaments. In my head, it’s not quite gambling as there is so much math and skill involved at the higher levels but I sometimes wonder if that’s myself or the evil one trying to justify playing.

I know the Bible doesn’t explicitly mention gambling but it does mention the love of money. But I’m not playing for money. I play because I enjoy the challenge and want to know how I match up against the best in the world. There might be some pride involved but I really do think it’s more of the challenge/test that I’m interested in.

I’d appreciate any thoughts on whether or not this is sinful. I’m certainly not addicted as I rarely play for money and I don’t play other gambling games.

Thoughts?

 

[crossnote]

Skipper I used to play Blackjack, before coming to the Lord, counting cards spending months at a time living off my winnings in Las Vegas. (I know, Poker is a completely different animal). As a Christian I had only toyed with the idea using some of the same rationale you are using.
I don't think it is so much a matter of 'a love of money' as it is 'where is your trust placed?'
But since you claim it is not for money, and you are struggling with this decision, perhaps the suitable passage in this scenario is ...
Romans 14:23 (KJV) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

It may be the Holy Spirit is troubling your conscience. Only you would know.

 

[Skipper]

Skipper I used to play Blackjack, before coming to the Lord, counting cards spending months at a time living off my winnings in Las Vegas. (I know, Poker is a completely different animal). As a Christian I had only toyed with the idea using some of the same rationale you are using.
I don't think it is so much a matter of 'a love of money' as it is 'where is your trust placed?'
But since you claim it is not for money, and you are struggling with this decision, perhaps the suitable passage in this scenario is ...
Romans 14:23 (KJV) And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

It may be the Holy Spirit is troubling your conscience. Only you would know.

I agree that simply having these thoughts about it being a sin or not could be the Holy Spirit trying to stir me into action/avoidance.

Apt verse you quoted but I wonder if it could be applied to other forms of entertainment such as movies, video games, and the like. But again, that might be the flesh in me starting to spin poker into being only for entertainment.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the conflict alone is enough for me to stop playing for money. If I’m not sure if it’s sin, I should surely err on the side of caution. Not to mention the question of whether or not it is an appropriate use of my blessings and if it’s being a good steward of the resources He has entrusted us with.

Thank you for your reply and for the disclosure of your blackjack history. Different game and all that but at least it seems you have some background relevant to the subject at hand. May I ask how easy or difficult it was for you to stop and if the temptation to play sometimes returns?

 

[crossnote]

I agree that simply having these thoughts about it being a sin or not could be the Holy Spirit trying to stir me into action/avoidance.

Apt verse you quoted but I wonder if it could be applied to other forms of entertainment such as movies, video games, and the like. But again, that might be the flesh in me starting to spin poker into being only for entertainment.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the conflict alone is enough for me to stop playing for money. If I’m not sure if it’s sin, I should surely err on the side of caution. Not to mention the question of whether or not it is an appropriate use of my blessings and if it’s being a good steward of the resources He has entrusted us with.

Thank you for your reply and for the disclosure of your blackjack history. Different game and all that but at least it seems you have some background relevant to the subject at hand. May I ask how easy or difficult it was for you to stop and if the temptation to play sometimes returns?

Like I said, I only toyed with the idea to try my hand, but not seriously. Here is a helpful versewhen being tempted...

Proverbs 23:31 KJVS
[31] Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

IOW, don't even start.

 

[CPerkins]

I agree that simply having these thoughts about it being a sin or not could be the Holy Spirit trying to stir me into action/avoidance.

Apt verse you quoted but I wonder if it could be applied to other forms of entertainment such as movies, video games, and the like. But again, that might be the flesh in me starting to spin poker into being only for entertainment.

The more I think about it, the more I realize the conflict alone is enough for me to stop playing for money. If I’m not sure if it’s sin, I should surely err on the side of caution. Not to mention the question of whether or not it is an appropriate use of my blessings and if it’s being a good steward of the resources He has entrusted us with.

Thank you for your reply and for the disclosure of your blackjack history. Different game and all that but at least it seems you have some background relevant to the subject at hand. May I ask how easy or difficult it was for you to stop and if the temptation to play sometimes returns?

For me I use to play Pinochle a lot. I also spent a lot of time when I was younger entertaining myself through TV and other activities. As a Christian though now, I find little time for the these things and much much less desire for this kind of entertainment. Are they wrong, not necessarily? Can they be, yes but only you and God would know if that is the case.

Col 4:5-6 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. (KJV)

While these verse are speaking of what we say they do apply to how we act and behave in the world.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)

How do we worship God in spirit and in truth? Gal 5:22-26 provides some of the answer. Walking in the spirit, brings love, joy, peace, comfort, etc. to those around us and reveals God acting in us. Acting in truth reveals the content of our minds and heart. Sometimes we try to hide this from others rather than sharing the gifts God gives us.

I found I was more aggressive and less loving when playing Pinochle. I also find that I don't have time for it like I did back then. So for me Pinochle was pushed aside by other things that occupy my time and energy.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hello all,

I’m new here so I’ll give a brief background. I’m married with two young children, work in the mental health field, doing well financially.

I enjoy poker. I like the challenge and the outwitting nature of it. I enjoy playing for fun with no money involved with people at work on our lunch breaks. I study the game and the more I study, the more I realize the amount of skill involved (although luck is certainly a factor).

I play poker for money once every year or two at the World Series of Poker. I play in tournaments that you pay a flat fee to join and you can win money if you finish near the top.

I’m struggling with understanding if it is a sin or not when I play in these tournaments. In my head, it’s not quite gambling as there is so much math and skill involved at the higher levels but I sometimes wonder if that’s myself or the evil one trying to justify playing.

I know the Bible doesn’t explicitly mention gambling but it does mention the love of money. But I’m not playing for money. I play because I enjoy the challenge and want to know how I match up against the best in the world. There might be some pride involved but I really do think it’s more of the challenge/test that I’m interested in.

I’d appreciate any thoughts on whether or not this is sinful. I’m certainly not addicted as I rarely play for money and I don’t play other gambling games.

Thoughts?

The real danger would be when you would lose money that was not budgeted to be able to lose!

 

[Siloam]

Anything can be sinful if it gets between the worship of and service to the Lord. Part of that is how much of your mind is being devoted to the activity to the exclusion of more profitable (an I don't mean monetarily) activities and thoughts.

Some play poker, or other gambling games with no more meaning than someone that likes to play tennis. That said, when gambling is involved, it combines many sources of temptation including competitiveness and avarice.

As a personal observation: I can remember that in my work I used to be sent to Atlantic City where the FAA has a test facility. A couple of times, my wife accompanied me and would spend the day either on the boardwalk or in the casinos - just playing small wagers, nothing big. One day she won about $700 in a day (which was considerably more than she was wagering). After that, she always wanted to go to the casinos, and probably ended up dropping much more than she ever won. What I think was dangerous was not the money she lost, but her increased interest in playing those games. That's why they build those big fancy hotels and sometimes provide free drinks to those playing.

In the end, she stopped accompanying me, and I went back to staying at smaller hotels closer to the FAA facilities.

It's easy to get hooked. I strongly suggest finding other avocations.

 

[2404]

Hello Skipper - interesting.
After reading what you wrote i see that I know nothing about poker.
But I think the acid test still applies.
When you get to the other side and you're sitting with Jesus having a coffee and he asks you how you spent your time and why you spent it that way. Would you be able with a joyfully heart be able to spill the beans?
I appreciate you sharing and I'm sure you and I both desire to get a smile and a pat on the back at the end of the road.
God bless.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hello Skipper - interesting.
After reading what you wrote i see that I know nothing about poker.
But I think the acid test still applies.
When you get to the other side and you're sitting with Jesus having a coffee and he asks you how you spent your time and why you spent it that way. Would you be able with a joyfully heart be able to spill the beans?
I appreciate you sharing and I'm sure you and I both desire to get a smile and a pat on the back at the end of the road.
God bless.

Think if the money lost was budgeted is a lot different then losing monies that was meant to pay on Mortgage, car, or most of all to God!

 

[Skipper]

The real danger would be when you would lose money that was not budgeted to be able to lose!

Yes but that was never really an issue. I have enough self control to not spend more than I allocated for it and the benefit of tournaments was that I knew exactly how much I would lose (the buy in amount to enter the tournament) and nothing more.

But I’ve seen many cash game players “chase losses” and return over and over again to the ATM in an attempt to win a big hand and break even.

 

[Skipper]

Anything can be sinful if it gets between the worship of and service to the Lord. Part of that is how much of your mind is being devoted to the activity to the exclusion of more profitable (an I don't mean monetarily) activities and thoughts.

Some play poker, or other gambling games with no more meaning than someone that likes to play tennis. That said, when gambling is involved, it combines many sources of temptation including competitiveness and avarice.

As a personal observation: I can remember that in my work I used to be sent to Atlantic City where the FAA has a test facility. A couple of times, my wife accompanied me and would spend the day either on the boardwalk or in the casinos - just playing small wagers, nothing big. One day she won about $700 in a day (which was considerably more than she was wagering). After that, she always wanted to go to the casinos, and probably ended up dropping much more than she ever won. What I think was dangerous was not the money she lost, but her increased interest in playing those games. That's why they build those big fancy hotels and sometimes provide free drinks to those playing.

In the end, she stopped accompanying me, and I went back to staying at smaller hotels closer to the FAA facilities.

It's easy to get hooked. I strongly suggest finding other avocations.

I’ve been playing for almost 20 years and never really got hooked in terms of playing frequency but you’re absolutely right about the time commitment and it drawing away from more Godly activities. I have probably 30 books or so on poker, training apps, and frequent a poker forum (I’m hoping being a member here helps drive me away from that forum).

When I think of the time I spent on studying the game in order to get advanced in the game theory of it, I realize how much better I could have spent that time that I’ll never get back now.

 

[Skipper]

Hello Skipper - interesting.
After reading what you wrote i see that I know nothing about poker.
But I think the acid test still applies.
When you get to the other side and you're sitting with Jesus having a coffee and he asks you how you spent your time and why you spent it that way. Would you be able with a joyfully heart be able to spill the beans?
I appreciate you sharing and I'm sure you and I both desire to get a smile and a pat on the back at the end of the road.
God bless.

Exactly! But the coffee with Jesus will have to be decaf as caffeine makes my heart race

 

[Skipper]

Think if the money lost was budgeted is a lot different then losing monies that was meant to pay on Mortgage, car, or most of all to God!

Actually, I won a fair amount of money. Obviously, I had lost some tournaments but the money I won made up for it. The time I spent that could have been spent in the Word or serving others is what really hurts my heart.

 

[forgiven61]

I’m struggling with understanding if it is a sin or not when I play in these tournaments.

what does does your heart say deep down? listen to the still small voice. james wrote to him who knows to do good and don't is a sin james 4:17. i would keep seeking God on this could be HE is dealing with you. let the Holy spirit speak go from there

 

[crossnote]

Actually, I won a fair amount of money. Obviously, I had lost some tournaments but the money I won made up for it. The time I spent that could have been spent in the Word or serving others is what really hurts my heart.

Just one personal question Skipper. Feel free not to answer...
Which came first, being a poker champ or becoming a Christian? (Embedded in the term "Christian" is the question, "Were you born again?")

 

[Skipper]

Just one personal question Skipper. Feel free not to answer...
Which came first, being a poker champ or becoming a Christian? (Embedded in the term "Christian" is the question, "Were you born again?")

I never said “champ” but I was raised in a Christian household, drifted into more earthly living (sin) in my early 20’s right around the time I first started learning poker, and started walking with Christ more in my late 20’s even though He was always with me and I chose to sin.

I was baptized as an infant but chose to be baptized again last year. So I’m not sure if when you say “born again” you mean baptized or affirming in my heart my love and dedication to Jesus. My love for Him has always been there but my obedience and dedication started more in my late 20’s. But again, if you mean baptism by my own choice, only about a year.

 

[crossnote]

So I’m not sure if when you say “born again” you mean baptized or affirming in my heart my love and dedication to Jesus.

By 'born again' I mean something along these lines...

2 Corinthians 5:17 KJVS
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Or...

Ephesians 2:2-5 KJVS
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. [4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

As a result we have new heart desires and a fresh hunger to know Him through His Word. Nothing to do with water.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Actually, I won a fair amount of money. Obviously, I had lost some tournaments but the money I won made up for it. The time I spent that could have been spent in the Word or serving others is what really hurts my heart.

That is where Satan can be really subtle in temptations, as we can be diverted and focused on things not really sinful, but takes our eyes and priority off the Lord!

 

[bobinfaith]

I’ve been playing for almost 20 years and never really got hooked in terms of playing frequency but you’re absolutely right about the time commitment and it drawing away from more Godly activities. I have probably 30 books or so on poker, training apps, and frequent a poker forum (I’m hoping being a member here helps drive me away from that forum).

When I think of the time I spent on studying the game in order to get advanced in the game theory of it, I realize how much better I could have spent that time that I’ll never get back now.

Hello Skipper;

From reading this topic we received some great posts from each other that can minister to all of us who have battles or have battled various kinds.

When I read your post regarding 30 books or so on poker sounded pretty serious. When I was in my 20s we used to play Russian poker. But I was so lousy that the other players would get frustrated with me because I took so long while only bidding .25 or .50 cents.

I hated losing money so gave it up which was a blessing in disguise.

God bless you, Skipper and your family.

 

[Via dolarossa]

welcome skipper, to our place.

I used to love playing cards when I was little..
there were so many card games I enjoyed with my friends and family.
we had pennies and played for pennies. we played for fun. in good spirits. we even used sweets when we run out of pennies. then we used big money, 10p lol
and one time, just to be silly, we made some lemon meringue pies.
just for the losers. and they had to go on our faces if we lost hahaha

and as we got older, we played every Saturday night with our families. we really looked forward to a good family night in, yes we played for money, but it was all in good clean fun. we didn't do it at casinos. and we never got cross if we lost. but we did have to ban one family member though, because he started getting irate when he lost. so he had to go


I really don't know if its a sin, but, if in doubt, don't do it, and....

enjoy it and have fun and be blessed by the Lord , because the Lord loves a cheerful giver and so even if you loose you really ought to be happy that you got to play in the first place and have so much joy with friends and family.