To Jeff: I Thought This Was A ''friendly'' Christian Forum...?

This topic serves as a testament to why I tend to come here for a few months, work hard to maintain peace, and the vanish for a few months. Even in a topic about people who argue too much and are not friendly and accepting, we have 2 pages of debating and arguing and barely a page of trying to make the slightest effort to act civilly. The last time I hung around, I deleting a single post because it directly attacked Catholics and was chastised for "silencing the Gospel". This used to be a place of learning and understanding other viewpoints for me, but the past few years it has just been a place to come and work. Sometimes, I can see the value in the work, and other times, I just don't. Too many who simply don't believe Unity is important. Too many who believe that the Bible was given as a weapon against others who don't share their every view and thought. Too many who cast insults, and then quickly become offended when challenged. Too few following even the most basic tenets of respect and love that should characterize the Christian walk.

Two pages that do not hold value in the spirit of this thread have now been sentenced to the ether where they must remain.
 
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God?
I am curious about this too. I wrote to you Magdelena about this explaining with bible verses that he is God in the "Religion, Faith, and Rituals" thread, but didn't get a response. Maybe you missed it.

"I just want to show you that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but is God as well

""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John1:1). "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

From these two verses we can see that Jesus was the Word and it says, "the Word was God."

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (John 8:58).
"And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you (Exodus 3:14).

Again by comparing scriptures we see that Jesus was God.

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:5-8).

"But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8).

People will believe what they want. There are tons of people who say they believe in God, but do not believe the gospel, but since what Jesus did on the cross is the only way to be kept from hell, do you think it is loving and kind to not tell these people the truth knowing they will go to hell because they don't know?

Many people who don't believe in Jesus say they hear God's voice and experience great joy, peace, and miracles from him. However, Jesus said he is the only way to be saved.

Now God provides good for the believer and unbeliever as well.

"He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous" (Matthew 5:45).

However, one day all His love and goodness will be removed from those who didn't believe in what Jesus did for them on the cross. All those who didn't believe will wake up to such a horrific reality that I don't think any of us could comprehend. All of God's love (which means all love) and all of God's goodness (which means all goodness) will be gone for them and they will never have a chance again to be with God again. Now is the time people have a chance to know God and get saved. If we don't speak the truth we would be those who don't care about them because we know what is going to happen later. We should tell them in love, but we should never hide the truth.

If a young child is about to run in the street and get hit by a car and their parent is too far away to stop them, are you going to stop them when they are right next to you, or are you going to let them get hit by the car?

If you want people to have love and beauty, then you should want that for them forever.
 
Well how can they "know" His love if they don't "know" the truth? Think about it?
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Amen. Beloved. But we must be careful; for although the lost might not know the truth, they do know about the truth.
So we must guide them to the fullness of the Love of God.
 
One thing that has to be remembered is patience. God is the one who saves people and changes hearts. We should definitely correct in love but also realize that if we tell someone the gospel that doesn't mean they will accept it immediately. People should be able to ask questions without being forced to accept the gospel. If they feel comfortable enough then maybe they will hang around long enough for the Word to work in them and they actually believe and get saved. Someone is not going to accept salvation because it is demanded of them. They are more likely to hear because of patient love and compassion combined with God's words.

We also need to remember that everyone that belongs to a denomination does not necessarily agree with everything the denomination holds, just like everyone who goes to a church doesn't necessarily agree with everything their pastor says.
 
the Gospel IS "Good News" ..
the "Good News" is God's love in which He sent His son to redeem WHOMSOEVER ..
that is what preaching the "Gospel/Good News" is ..

so if someone already accepts Christ .. you are not preaching the Good News, but rather doctrines ..
 
Yeah, I keep being accused of sins and some people bash me here that how wrong I am about the Bible and that how wrong things I do... D:
 
I was reading about the history of Hawaii ..
and was astounded on how the Protestant missionaries tortured the converts that the Catholic missionaries preached Jesus to ..

of God ??? .. not hardly ..
many are too wound up in doctrine and miss the whole message of love ..
 
In my own circles, I care very much about doctrines. Doctrines are how we perceive what we read in Scripture. Some have been given too much weight, others unnecessarily dismissed.

For the purpose of the "real world", I find that I'm more interested in how the Love that God has given to us is being expressed. Are we showing love, or are we showing our own selfish desires and pretending that it's God's will? Much love was given to us, so much love is expected of us.
 
what we perceive in scripture should not depend on doctrine but rather love ..
ALL begins in the heart ..
my mind follows my heart ..
if a doctrine is NOT based on love, then it is misunderstood ..
 
what we perceive in scripture should not depend on doctrine but rather love ..
ALL begins in the heart ..
my mind follows my heart ..
if a doctrine is NOT based on love, then it is misunderstood ..

Doctrine holds some importance to me, mostly because it tells me the filter that is being used. We all use filters, and I'm not quite jaded enough into believing that only the doctrines and views that I hold were intended to be in love. What doctrines do for me is tell me what is important to those holding them. Some believe they can best show love by displaying the compassionate God, others best show love by warning of the wrath and judgement. While I'm not a Baptist, I'm comfortable in a Baptist church because I know and understand their beliefs. Those same beliefs would make me uncomfortable in my own church because they wouldn't reconcile with our Doctrines and so there would be a lack of unity and a lack of consistency. Other doctrines are just wrong, very wrong. They call into question the very nature of the Savior we serve, and therefore point to a false Shepherd.

In the end though, I suppose that Doctrines are for the mature Christians, while they tend to be overly applied to the seeker.
 
what we perceive in scripture should not depend on doctrine but rather love ..
ALL begins in the heart ..
my mind follows my heart ..
if a doctrine is NOT based on love, then it is misunderstood ..

What we perceive IS doctrine. That's the definition of Doctrine, whether it be a doctrine held by a denomination or by a person alone, it is their Doctrine. That doctrine should of course always be based in love.
 
many times people do not understand God's love ..
these reject God often because of not understanding God's love ..
most often because they put their goals on the earthly things and own egos ..
the same is true with believers .. many times that love can be perceived as "unfriendly" ..
 
What we perceive IS doctrine. That's the definition of Doctrine, whether it be a doctrine held by a denomination or by a person alone, it is their Doctrine. That doctrine should of course always be based in love.

Paul says doctrine exists outside of ones own perception ..
 
Doctrine holds some importance to me, mostly because it tells me the filter that is being used. We all use filters, and I'm not quite jaded enough into believing that only the doctrines and views that I hold were intended to be in love. What doctrines do for me is tell me what is important to those holding them. Some believe they can best show love by displaying the compassionate God, others best show love by warning of the wrath and judgement. While I'm not a Baptist, I'm comfortable in a Baptist church because I know and understand their beliefs. Those same beliefs would make me uncomfortable in my own church because they wouldn't reconcile with our Doctrines and so there would be a lack of unity and a lack of consistency. Other doctrines are just wrong, very wrong. They call into question the very nature of the Savior we serve, and therefore point to a false Shepherd.

In the end though, I suppose that Doctrines are for the mature Christians, while they tend to be overly applied to the seeker.

I agree. I also think that nonbelievers try to use the word love against God, without fully understanding the attributes of God. Anytime wrath and judgement is mentioned, a nonbeliever will always say, "but isn't God love." The answer is yes He is love, and because he is love His wrath and judgement is holy. A person that loves children, cannot love the actions of a pedophile, and it is the same for all sin.

I think most true denominations are in agreement in regards to the Gospel. It is when you go outside of those basic beliefs that you start stepping into the realm of cults. So it is healthy to be cautious of false doctrine.
 
Love is not always apparent, and acts of love do not always seem compassionate.

However, for the person hearing, perception is reality. Love must come before rules and doctrines. However, one must be first convinced of love before any of it makes a bit of difference. Were I not convinced that you held my best interests at heart, then it is unlikely that I will view or see anything you say as an act of love. Therefore, it is not always an act of love even then.

Jesus often spoke in parables. We know that those parables were used to present the truth to those who were capable of understanding, but also as a compassion to hide the truth of those who were not capable of understanding His love. Through them, He could warn of the dangers of wrong teaching without causing harm to those who could not accept what He taught. It was done as an act of love, in a loving way. Other times, He confronted directly. I think the difference comes in understanding which is the most appropriate response.
 
1Ti 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.

1Ti 6:3
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

so "sound doctrine" conforms to the love of God ..
 
I think God is a lot more "open ended" on doctrine then people may think ..
the sacrament (communion) is a goods example ..
what matters and "is sound" is that we honor him from love .. NOT HOW or WHEN we do it ..
 
the Gospel IS "Good News" ..
the "Good News" is God's love in which He sent His son to redeem WHOMSOEVER ..
that is what preaching the "Gospel/Good News" is ..
so if someone already accepts Christ .. you are not preaching the Good News, but rather doctrines ..
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Beloved, the Apostle Paul best describes the Gospel in I Cor. 15:1-4. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is what brought us repentance, remission of sins in the waters of baptism when the NAME of the Lord was invoked over the believer, and gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. That, in essence, is the beginning of the Christian walk.
 
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Beloved, the Apostle Paul best describes the Gospel in I Cor. 15:1-4. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is what brought us repentance, remission of sins in the waters of baptism when the NAME of the Lord was invoked over the believer, and gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. That, in essence, is the beginning of the Christian walk.

That's actually a really good verse, and does describe the gospel well.
 
I think God is a lot more "open ended" on doctrine then people may think ..
the sacrament (communion) is a goods example ..
what matters and "is sound" is that we honor him from love .. NOT HOW or WHEN we do it ..

I genuinely HOPE He is. I've known some doctrines that I would rather have nothing to do with.
 
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