No, we don't have to do anything. But Jesus is telling us if we love Him we obey His commands.
To tithe or not to tithe
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No, we don't have to do anything. But Jesus is telling us if we love Him we obey His commands.
שׁמע ישׂראל
Inactive
Guess Peter was a Legalist.
Guess James and the Council of Elders are Legalists.
Joyful is correct. You don't have to do anything for YHVH. But if you love him, that's something different. Now that I'm over 18, I don't have to do anything my parents tell me while not in their house. But I do so because I love them.
Shalom
שׁמע ישׂראל
Inactive
Sarcasm goes a long way lol.
My objection (if hidden) was to the statement that making someone do something automatically makes it legalism. Repentance isn't merely mouthing words and putting on a choir robe, it's changing your lifestyle continually, to the ways of the Master.
The point I tried to make, was that making people walk in righteousness (i.e. stop fornicating/lying/stealing, etc.) is not Legalism, but a part of being a messenger of Christ.
And no Peter, James, and the Elders were not legalist (and I'd be careful about falling into the Marcion Heresy which claimed many things similar to your statements).
:israel:
Shalom
My objection (if hidden) was to the statement that making someone do something automatically makes it legalism. Repentance isn't merely mouthing words and putting on a choir robe, it's changing your lifestyle continually, to the ways of the Master.
The point I tried to make, was that making people walk in righteousness (i.e. stop fornicating/lying/stealing, etc.) is not Legalism, but a part of being a messenger of Christ.
And no Peter, James, and the Elders were not legalist (and I'd be careful about falling into the Marcion Heresy which claimed many things similar to your statements).
:israel:
Shalom
I'm not into "heresy".
The things you mentioned come naturally for a Christian.
It's not something that requires work, it comes with the infilling of the Spirit.
A Christian does good works as a result of salvation, he/she does not do good works to earn salvation.
We cannot "earn" anything and deserve nothing.
It's only because of Jesus Christ and nothing else.
Tithes don't help you one bit.
Yes, but God is expecting us to love Him with our everything. You see? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, saul, strength and mind; this is everything. We are not forcing ourselves to love Him. we just want to show Him we love Him. He says to love Him with everything, that's what we do.
שׁמע ישׂראל
Inactive
I wasn't saying you were into Heresy, just stating to be careful. One of Marcion's greatest aspects was a complete segregation of trust from the Apostles, because of him finding fault in them. It often started small, but then the accusations got large. Legalism was one of those accusations. But what else can come from a man who wants Christianity to be completely free from Judaic influence? Marcion the Heretic. Hmmm.
Hmm. I'd beg to differ, especially given the common convert to Christianity. I have a few friends who came to faith, but yet still did not know of the sins a person can commit (this is similar with people who have no idea about Christianity). Upon finding out, they stopped, yet some still persisted thinking it wasn't sin they were involved in. I like Acts 15 where James makes the statement that the Gentiles would learn Torah as they attended the synagogue every shabbat.
James states in faith, that the New Converts would learn in time, not that they already knew everything upon conversion.
That's the point! Lol. What does the heart reflect in the one who obediently follows the teaching of the Father in faith? It isn't an issue of earning salvation, of that we both agree for the Law cannot bring salvation. On the contrary, the heart that bears salvation, brings obedience to the Law (10 commandments prime example).
I think we are in agreement, just different wording.
Shalom
Hmm. I'd beg to differ, especially given the common convert to Christianity. I have a few friends who came to faith, but yet still did not know of the sins a person can commit (this is similar with people who have no idea about Christianity). Upon finding out, they stopped, yet some still persisted thinking it wasn't sin they were involved in. I like Acts 15 where James makes the statement that the Gentiles would learn Torah as they attended the synagogue every shabbat.
James states in faith, that the New Converts would learn in time, not that they already knew everything upon conversion.
That's the point! Lol. What does the heart reflect in the one who obediently follows the teaching of the Father in faith? It isn't an issue of earning salvation, of that we both agree for the Law cannot bring salvation. On the contrary, the heart that bears salvation, brings obedience to the Law (10 commandments prime example).
I think we are in agreement, just different wording.
Shalom
שׁמע ישׂראל said:
Legalism is the vehicle by which man most often seeks to guide others or justify ones own beliefs(especialy in the church). The reason being it is a powerful and useful tool. There fore one can be relitively sure that when we see it someone is trying to move us in a direction we are not presently going. (As you say "make someone do something"). I fail to see the reason for your objection to a plain simple truth.
And I don't appreciate you implying that those who see legalism in your post is calling it so to justify their error.
Most commonly were we see one we see the other so the concern should not be for the legalism itself but for what is being justified by it or where it is being used to take us.
I have a couple of questions for you.
What gives one Christian the right, responcibility or authority to make another do anything or tell another what must or must not be done?
and
I ask this before. Perhaps you missed it. I would appreciate a detailed explination of your belief of "tithing". What is it and how is it to be practiced in relationship to the church today?
I beg to disagree.
The heart that bears faith is obedient not just to the teachings or the Law but to God Himself. Certianly not always to the teaching of men about the commandments for men are carnal and cannot fully understand the ways and will of God. To obey God is to obey God personaly not to obey our own or anothers interpritation of God's word.
It was by faith that Abraham set out to sacrifice his son. Not by the Law or teaching because both would have said that is was wrong. Righousness was atributed to Abraham because he by faith intended to do what God personaly commanded of him.
Not every commandment or Law in scripture applies to every individual and for all times.
Tithing is such a Law. No doubt it applied to Israel and those of the OT who by Law practiced it. But how does that make it a requirement before the church???
In that we agree that tithing does not save how can setting a specific amount mean anything?????? What does it prove???? What is it's purpose????
Does giving 9.999 %percent (by mans accounting) mean one doesn't love God or is not saved???
What of tihing from the profits of sin??? Prostitutes who give to the church ,are they in some way in a better position in relationship to God because they give???
If one gives more than another,then do they love measuably more than another???? Are they more secure in salvation???
Must the tithe be given and measured before man to be accounted as faith??
Pro 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Pro 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
Pro 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Pro 3:4 So shalt thou find favor and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
שׁמע ישׂראל
Inactive
One of the main aspects of the life of the believer, is the change in heart towards the things of God. God's Law is not just a bill of "do's" and "don'ts" it's largely in part, a code that shows man what sin is, in effect showing what God isn't. This means it shows his Character, and his devine nature to us (as much as we can concieve).
The heart of the believer reacts to the faith it possesses, which leads the person into harmony with this revealed Character. If nothing else, it brings the heart into the submission of the Ten Commandments (Which IS Torah). The heart of the believer moves one away from murdering, stealing, blaspheming God, coveting what is possessed by a neighbor, committing adultery, etc. To say the heart that bears "salvation" does not bear the mark of obedience to even the 10 commandments, is to negate one of the prime changes of a person from sinner to saint. It is the circumcision each believer possesses, given through Christ. It is one of the signs of our faith.
For scripture declares this to be a sign of our faith:
Scripture is clear on the issue. The one born of God does not continue sinning, but the sign of their faith is obedience to the things of God. Its no surprise that in the same chapter, we are shown who abides in Him.
____________________________
Would the Law or teaching condemn it? I don't see how. But of Abraham's faith, this is a prime example of how Faith moves people to Obedience. This is spoken of elsewhere in two places, and both should be weighed equally. But often people forget this account from James, the book of Balance.
Often times the "works" are left completely out by those who misread Galatians to be anti-Law, but James as the Balance notes that
as the body is dead apart from the spirit
so also faith is dead apart from works
(one should meditate upon WHY James makes this analogy in this way)
If your faith lacks works of righteousness, your faith is dead, and dead faith cannot save you. Scripture is very clear on this, which revolves back to the original ideal that:
For what man can say they are of Christ, and yet continue on in sin? None. The man of YHVH seeks to "do" righteousness, be absorbed by righteousness, walk in righteousness, until all that they are - is righteousness.
I agree, but we should discern which commandment/Law is spoken in continuance, and which is for whom (i.e. Commandments for just the Levites, and commandments for ALL of Israel continually).
Are we not all of Israel? Is the Church seperate? We are, and it is NOT.
Those who are far off from the commonwealth of Israel (The Nation) are brought close through the blood of Christ. Those of the faith, are now fellow citizens, and no longer strangers or tenants. The church has NOT replaced Israel, as those of faith are grafted into Israel:
________
The tithe (tenth) was not set by myself, or by any other man. This is not a tradition of men, but a commandment of YHVH. Instead of asking "what does it prove" ask, "what does it reinforce, what does it teach, what does it lead people in". If you seek to understand the purpose, ask YHVH through prayer and reading of the scriptures, for he is the one who commanded it. Not I.
This is where legalism comes into play in my mind. While careful account should be taken into consideration when marking the tenth of one's increase, the man who gives 9.999% is not forsaken. The system of Grace dictates that instead of the strict 10% if you happen to give 9.999% then you will not perish under the Law. This is because YHVH searches the heart of each believer, and will judge according to the faith held within. The issue isn't missing the mark by .001%, but it IS - the heart that does not wish to reach the mark at all.
That is a double edged sword really. It can be said "if even the prostitute gives the tithe, what keeps you, oh man of righteousness from tithing to your God?" But of the condition of the prostitute or those who tithe with false motive or corrupted heart, this is spoken of in scripture as well. Review Isaiah 1 where the children of Israel are rebuked for their "vain sacrifices" and the misuse of His Holy feasts and Shabbats. Such things are despised from the wicked, but they are loved when given from the righteous.
Brings to mind the picture of the poor widow who could only throw in the two lepta. Is the measure of what one gives compared to another, the sole measurement of the tithe? It is not. Behold how Yeshua declares "Truly I say to you that this poor widow has thrown in more than all of those casting into the treasury."
But are they more secure in their salvation? If the works of a man show the faith of a man, of what faith is the one who gives half heartedly? Yet it is the faith of one which measures and gives the tithe, not the other way around.
My son, do not forget my law, but let your heart keep my commands,
Indeed, do not forget them, do not forsake the heart to keep them.
Shalom
P.S. Of your previous post, I will reply to both questions soon when I am able. The newborn Nephew drains much of my time.
Bible study on tithing
THE THREE MAIN ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF TITHING.
1. Tithing was a pre- Mosaic Law because Abraham tithed.
Was Abraham commanded by God to tithe? Did Abraham tithe only one time? Did Abraham tithe his personal property or just the spoils of war? Read Gen 14:20, Hebrews 7:3-5 If we follow all the examples of Abraham should we also practice polygamy, give burnt offerings and practice circumcision? Did Abraham teach his children to always tithe? If Abraham taught his children to tithe why did Jacob make a proposal to God?
He would tithe only if God would bless him first with good fortune. Read Gen 28:22
2. Jesus told the Pharisees to continue to tithe their spices.
Matt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Jesus also told the leper he cured to offer burnt offerings as Mosaic Law commanded.
Luke 5:14 Then Jesus ordered him, “Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.†Matthew 8:4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.†Exodus 10:25, 20:24
Why do no Christian churches today offer burnt offerings as sacrifices?
Why did Jesus on these two occasions recommend keeping Mosaic Law?
Was it because the leper and the Pharisees were still under Mosaic Law until the crucifixion of Christ? Galatians 4:4
Was the life of Jesus the fulfillment of The Law and his dying on the cross the abolishment of The Law? Colossians 2 16 Are we now under the new covenant of Grace? Romans 6:14 Ephesians 2:8
Galatians 4:4 “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under lawâ€
3. Jesus came to fulfill the law not change it.
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.†[Written before the crucifixion of Christ] [Dictionary: Fulfill: 1.To measure up to; satisfy. 2.To bring to an end; complete]
If the law has not been abolished should we still practice all 613 Old Testament laws including tithing? What does the word “fulfill†imply in this context? Consider Ephesians 2:15 [written after the crucifixion of Christ] “By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.â€
Matthew 5:17 and Ephesians 2:15 seem to contradict each other so we must search more scripture for clarification. Consider the following passages:
Galatians 3:25 “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.â€
2 Corinthians 3:6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.â€
Galatians 3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.â€
Galatians 3:11 “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.†[ Heb. 2:4]
Hebrews 8:7 “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.â€
Galatians 5:18 “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.â€
Galatians 2:21 “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!â€
Galatians 3:2 “ I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?â€
Hebrews 10:8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them†(although the law required them to be made).
Galatians 5:3 “Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.â€
Galatians 3:10 “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:†“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€
Romans 7:2-4 “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another -- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God."
What do the previous passages imply in regards to the Old Covenant laws?
If we follow one law are we then obligated to follow all the law?
Has the death and resurrection of Christ abolished all Old Testament commandments and regulations?
Additional notes
Even Jewish Rabbis who follow the old covenant today refuse to collect tithes. Why? Only direct descendants of Levites are permitted to collect tithes according to the law and the temple in Jerusalem with all the genealogy records was destroyed. Hebrews 7: 5 Deuteronomy 18:1, 26:12
Who are the new priests of Christ and where is their temple? Is every single believer is now a priest?
1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.†1 Peter 2:9
1 Corinthians 6:19
19 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;â€
There are more Old Testament scriptures on tithing implying that there are three tithes resembling a taxation system, [Deut. 14 26-29] and that tithes are to be eaten, [Deut.14: 22-26]. Do any modern tithing churches eat their tithes as the bible commands?
Note: In relation to Deut14: 22-26. Some churches claim food was tithed because ancient Israel was an agricultural society and there was no money to tithe. Is this true?
Genesis 17:12
“For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.â€
New Testament instructions on giving:
2 Cor 9:7-10 “Each of you must give as you have made up your mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.â€
2 Cor 8:13-15 “ I do not mean that there should be relief for others and pressure on you, but it is a question of a fair balance between your present abundance and their need, so that their abundance may be for your need, in order that there may be a fair balance. As it is written, "The one who had much did not have too much, and the one who had little did not have too little."
1 Corinthians 16
The Collection for God's People
1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
James 1:27 “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.â€
Galatians 5: 4 “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.â€
Note: Please read all scriptures quoted here in their complete context to have a better understanding of God’s word. A more complete study by a theologian and pastor can be found at: http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com/
THE THREE MAIN ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF TITHING.
1. Tithing was a pre- Mosaic Law because Abraham tithed.
Was Abraham commanded by God to tithe? Did Abraham tithe only one time? Did Abraham tithe his personal property or just the spoils of war? Read Gen 14:20, Hebrews 7:3-5 If we follow all the examples of Abraham should we also practice polygamy, give burnt offerings and practice circumcision? Did Abraham teach his children to always tithe? If Abraham taught his children to tithe why did Jacob make a proposal to God?
He would tithe only if God would bless him first with good fortune. Read Gen 28:22
2. Jesus told the Pharisees to continue to tithe their spices.
Matt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Jesus also told the leper he cured to offer burnt offerings as Mosaic Law commanded.
Luke 5:14 Then Jesus ordered him, “Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.†Matthew 8:4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.†Exodus 10:25, 20:24
Why do no Christian churches today offer burnt offerings as sacrifices?
Why did Jesus on these two occasions recommend keeping Mosaic Law?
Was it because the leper and the Pharisees were still under Mosaic Law until the crucifixion of Christ? Galatians 4:4
Was the life of Jesus the fulfillment of The Law and his dying on the cross the abolishment of The Law? Colossians 2 16 Are we now under the new covenant of Grace? Romans 6:14 Ephesians 2:8
Galatians 4:4 “But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under lawâ€
3. Jesus came to fulfill the law not change it.
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.†[Written before the crucifixion of Christ] [Dictionary: Fulfill: 1.To measure up to; satisfy. 2.To bring to an end; complete]
If the law has not been abolished should we still practice all 613 Old Testament laws including tithing? What does the word “fulfill†imply in this context? Consider Ephesians 2:15 [written after the crucifixion of Christ] “By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace.â€
Matthew 5:17 and Ephesians 2:15 seem to contradict each other so we must search more scripture for clarification. Consider the following passages:
Galatians 3:25 “Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.â€
2 Corinthians 3:6 “He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.â€
Galatians 3:23 “Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.â€
Galatians 3:11 “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.†[ Heb. 2:4]
Hebrews 8:7 “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.â€
Galatians 5:18 “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.â€
Galatians 2:21 “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!â€
Galatians 3:2 “ I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?â€
Hebrews 10:8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them†(although the law required them to be made).
Galatians 5:3 “Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.â€
Galatians 3:10 “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:†“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.â€
Romans 7:2-4 “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another -- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God."
What do the previous passages imply in regards to the Old Covenant laws?
If we follow one law are we then obligated to follow all the law?
Has the death and resurrection of Christ abolished all Old Testament commandments and regulations?
Additional notes
Even Jewish Rabbis who follow the old covenant today refuse to collect tithes. Why? Only direct descendants of Levites are permitted to collect tithes according to the law and the temple in Jerusalem with all the genealogy records was destroyed. Hebrews 7: 5 Deuteronomy 18:1, 26:12
Who are the new priests of Christ and where is their temple? Is every single believer is now a priest?
1 Peter 2:5 “you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.†1 Peter 2:9
1 Corinthians 6:19
19 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;â€
There are more Old Testament scriptures on tithing implying that there are three tithes resembling a taxation system, [Deut. 14 26-29] and that tithes are to be eaten, [Deut.14: 22-26]. Do any modern tithing churches eat their tithes as the bible commands?
Note: In relation to Deut14: 22-26. Some churches claim food was tithed because ancient Israel was an agricultural society and there was no money to tithe. Is this true?
Genesis 17:12
“For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.â€
New Testament instructions on giving:
2 Cor 9:7-10 “Each of you must give as you have made up your mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.â€
2 Cor 8:13-15 “ I do not mean that there should be relief for others and pressure on you, but it is a question of a fair balance between your present abundance and their need, so that their abundance may be for your need, in order that there may be a fair balance. As it is written, "The one who had much did not have too much, and the one who had little did not have too little."
1 Corinthians 16
The Collection for God's People
1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3 Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
James 1:27 “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.â€
Galatians 5: 4 “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.â€
Note: Please read all scriptures quoted here in their complete context to have a better understanding of God’s word. A more complete study by a theologian and pastor can be found at: http://www.shouldthechurchteachtithing.com/
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
To tithe or not to tithe - I am not under a llegal obligation to tithe but I think 10 % is a good place to start off - I love giving into God's kingdom , what a priveldge, what an honor, what an opportunity to be a part of what the Lord is doing! I must be one of them thar "cheerful givers" Praise God!
I am more and more convinced that the attitude of my heart is what makes my offering acceptable to God- there are many exmples in scripture were people were doing the right things for the wrong reasons and this was unacceptable to God!
I am more and more convinced that the attitude of my heart is what makes my offering acceptable to God- there are many exmples in scripture were people were doing the right things for the wrong reasons and this was unacceptable to God!
I realize that this poster is a FORMER member, but I'm still left wondering how such a requirement would refrain from facilitating a multifaceted monster. Why would anyone want that?
I mean, look at the OT tithe. Every bit of the tithe went for the meeting of needs. None of it went for the upkeep of the temple structure of for synagogues.
Today, on the other hand, facilities, lawn care and staff salaries absorb the vast majority of what's handed over to most religious (c)hurch organizations all across this country, with only the left-overs handed out for benevolent outreaches.
So I can't help but to wonder how giving them more will ever help any thing or any one.
That's one reason I'm puzzled by the idea that we all should be required to hand that segment of humanity so much power through money.
What would be interesting to know is how a 10% tithe could possibly make that phenomenon disappear?
I wonder about the definition of that poster's use of the term intolerance? We're ALL intolerant about many things in life.
I wonder who the us is in that statement. No government can force immorality upon anyone. People can become victims of immorality, but such can't be foreced upon them. We all choose our own actions and reactions to various stimuli.
SwJr
Could you elaborate on this some more?
Please explain, in more detail, how NOT tithing to a religious church organziation is tantamount to stealing from God.
I'd like to explore this in more detail.
SwJr
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This thread has been well discussed. Everyone has stated their views and no one is changing their minds.
With that in mind, it is the opinion of the Moderators, nothing further is to be gained and the thread will be closed.
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We thank all who participated.
This thread has been well discussed. Everyone has stated their views and no one is changing their minds.
With that in mind, it is the opinion of the Moderators, nothing further is to be gained and the thread will be closed.
If anyone wishes to add something to this thread that is of a differing viewpoint and has not already been covered, please let anyone on the Moderator Team know, and reopening of this thread will be considered.
We thank all who participated.
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