Tree of knowledge

This topic is very reminiscent of many of my discussions with atheists even to the inference that faith involves the abandonment of thought, reason and logic. Quite the opposite is true actually. It was REAL thought, logic and reason that led me to abandon atheism. Truth is not changed by what you choose to believe or by who appears to win an argument so there is no point debating it. Debating is what you do when you think you already know the truth. Satan loves to provoke debate because while you are defending your beliefs you are not questioning them to see if they are really true or not. Deceivers always delight in debate because it makes people concentrate on winning an argument rather than seeking the truth.

But about this tree, what I believe is not as important to you as the question "Is what YOU believe actually true?" If we want to know the truth the beliefs we must question the most above all others is - our OWN. So many people are mislead because they simply ASSUME what they believe to be true, they never QUESTION and TEST to see if what they believe is actually true.

So here are some things to THINK about, not debate:-

1. The only way you even KNOW about this tree of the knowledge of good and evil is by the word of God. Either BELIEVE the word of God or do not. It is rather illogical and irrational to try and debate if the word of the Lord is correct when all you have is the word of the Lord that it is correct.

2. Matter and energy know nothing of "good" and "evil" (try discussing the concepts with an atom of hydrogen or an amino acid sometime :)). "Good" and "evil" must be defined by a sentient MIND. They are JUDGEMENT calls and somebody is required to define what things are good and what things are evil.

Hence knowledge of good and evil can only come from the one empowered to define what is good and what is evil. We are not condemned by "original sin" for the Lord has clearly declared (Ezeckiel 18: 20) "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

What we are condemned by is the knowledge of good and evil that we inherited from Adam and Eve. For in KNOWING good from evil we have chosen to do evil.

3. The sin of Adam and Eve was disobedience to a direct command of the Lord. They did not need to know good from evil for they already knew they had been forbidden to eat of the fruit of that particular tree. Hence the argument "how could they be condemned for doing evil if they only had knowledge of good and evil AFTER they ate the fruit" is, at best a silly argument, at worst a deliberately deceptive argument.

4. Instead of seeking forgiveness Adam and Eve compounded their sin. For AFTER gaining knowledge of good and evil they did not admit guilt of doing evil but sought to justify it by trying to shift the blame and responsibility elsewhere.

5. It was only AFTER they disobeyed the Lord and then sought to justify doing so that Adam and Eve were barred from the tree of life (They were forbidden to eat from one tree only, not two). By what logic or reason would we expect the Lord to grant eternal life to those who have proven themselves rebellious, untrustworthy, disobedient and ambitious to be equal to or better than the one in whom all power and authority in the universe is invested.

The Lord has already had to put down one rebellion in Heaven. He can hardlt be expected to invite the rebellious and disobedient back in to do it all again.

Just a few points to ponder and meditate on.

Apply logic and reason and you will find that you only have the choice to believe what the Lord has told you about the Garden of Eden or have absolutely no idea what happened back there. You certainly have nothing by which you can prove the Lord to be a liar so forget any pretence of being able to logically or rationally debate the issue.
 
The tree of knowledge was a fige tree. The jew are believing so; and they are correct.
Notice that Adam and Eve did cover their naked with fige leaves. That is because they have a fige tree at hand reech; but aldo it is representing covering own nature with legalism. All along the OT the fige tree simpolise the Jew people under the Moses Law. In John 1:48 we have Nathanael reading the Law under a fige tree as it was the jew tradition. The tree of knowledge was a fige tree.
 
LOL Please pardon me for laughing, but that is a very funny statement.

Unfortunately, what you are doing is not funny. You are adding to the Word of God - that is strickly forbidden by God. So stop it.

Ginger
 
Goinheix said:
The tree of knowledge was a fige tree. The jew are believing so; and they are correct.
Notice that Adam and Eve did cover their naked with fige leaves. That is because they have a fige tree at hand reech; but aldo it is representing covering own nature with legalism. All along the OT the fige tree simpolise the Jew people under the Moses Law. In John 1:48 we have Nathanael reading the Law under a fige tree as it was the jew tradition. The tree of knowledge was a fige tree.
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Goinheix............Would you please post the Bible verses to substainciate your statement.

Wait..................I can save you the time, THERE ARE NO BIBLE VERSE THAT SAY THE TREE WAS A FIG TREE,
OR AN APPLE TREE, OR A BLUEBERRY TREE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.

The fact is.....it does not matter what kind of tree it was.
 
The tree of knowledge was simbolicing the Law; and the tree of life was simbolicing the Christ. The first is the figue, the second is the vine. The vine, the tree of life, Christ appear some more times in the Bible. Psalm 1 is talking of it, talking of Christ. It is mentiones in the prophets and gosples; and finally it is in the New Jerusalem in Revelations. It is always the same tree.

Adam and Eve were trying to hide they falled condition with fige leaves, legalism. God did change those leaves by ram skin, for the sacrifice of Christ. All it is simblis but actual. As well baptism has a simbolism but it is real fact, the trees were equaly real.
 
Optik said:
Has anybody ever thought what tree or plant the tree of knowledge may have been ? Or there is another chance it was purely fictional.
Anyone care to debate ?
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Before discussing about the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil," how about reviewing what we read regarding the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

We all read that God is speaking in parables:

Ezekiel 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Evidently, only GOD can expound on the "intended meaning" from the "letter" or literal meaning of His words. Otherwise, this is what we are witnessing today - diversity of interpretation!

Thus, the warning!

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(Something to think about)
 
God do speak in parables. Does Him speak always in parables? No. The most of the times God speak in direct and literal meaning. Adam was a real man as much real as Jesus.
 
Goinheix said:
God do speak in parables. Does Him speak always in parables? No. The most of the times God speak in direct and literal meaning. Adam was a real man as much real as Jesus.
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This is what I read:

Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Of course Adam and other characters, places, and so on and so forth, all refer to the "LETTER" of the word, but this need God's revelation for His "intended message." Have we not read the following?

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The "letter" is but the basis for God's revelation for the "spiritual message" or intended meaning that serves as "food" for the SOUL. Thus,

Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
 
According to you, Jesus, did not talk bvut in parables. That means that exept fpor Jesus words, all the rest of the Bible are writed in plain lenguage, not parables. Also it means that when Jesus told the diciples to go to next town and bring a donkey, he was meaning something else. He was actually talking in parables and his disciples misunderstood him, they thot that was actually saying them to do it.
 
Goinheix said:
According to you, Jesus, did not talk bvut in parables. That means that exept fpor Jesus words, all the rest of the Bible are writed in plain lenguage, not parables. Also it means that when Jesus told the diciples to go to next town and bring a donkey, he was meaning something else. He was actually talking in parables and his disciples misunderstood him, they thot that was actually saying them to do it.
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I believe what is written, that GOD is speaking in parbles. This is the language of the "Lamb"/sheep. Jesus expressed His words to the "letter" that the Natural Man understands - the literal meaning. No wonder because people (still "goats" not yet truly "born again") they only perceive the literal meaning. We are witnesses to the diverse or different interpretations of the Holy Bible.

This the NATURAL MAN:

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
Goinheix said:
The tree of knowledge was simbolicing the Law; and the tree of life was simbolicing the Christ. The first is the figue, the second is the vine. The vine, the tree of life, Christ appear some more times in the Bible. Psalm 1 is talking of it, talking of Christ. It is mentiones in the prophets and gosples; and finally it is in the New Jerusalem in Revelations. It is always the same tree.

Adam and Eve were trying to hide they falled condition with fige leaves, legalism. God did change those leaves by ram skin, for the sacrifice of Christ. All it is simblis but actual. As well baptism has a simbolism but it is real fact, the trees were equaly real.
Click to expand...

My dear friend...............
The Hebrew word used here for tree is the same word used for ordinary trees in all 25 uses in the book of Genesis. There is no exception. So the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was clearly an actual type of tree.

Similarly, the word for knowledge in the Hebrew is the ordinary word for knowledge or awareness. There is not the slightest indication that we should look for another meaning.

The Hebrew word for evil that is used in the tree's description — ra‘ — has the sense of misery, woe, grief, or harm. The word means evil, and perhaps more. It points to something extremely sorrowful — so we can rightly understand that eating the fruit of this tree would reveal knowledge of good and misery and is not in fact a symbol of anything else.

Adam and Eve knew only happiness. God had given them all they needed, located them in a beautiful garden of delights, and placed only one restriction on them: Don't eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As they already knew good, eating from this tree would provide only knowledge of calamity, grief, and sorrow.

Some say that God gave Adam and Eve a choice — they were free to eat from the tree or not eat from it. But when we read the Scriptures....is that the case????? IMO-----
God didn't give them a choice. Genesis 2:16 and 17 tell us that “the Lord God commanded the man … of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.”
He commanded Adam not to eat from it. He didn't say Adam could eat from it if he wanted to. Certainly Adam and Eve had freewill to disobey God, but no choice was given or implied in God's command.

And there is the key to understanding!!!

So what was the tree??? A TEST of obedience.
 
fil3232003 said:
This is what I read:

Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Of course Adam and other characters, places, and so on and so forth, all refer to the "LETTER" of the word, but this need God's revelation for His "intended message." Have we not read the following?

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The "letter" is but the basis for God's revelation for the "spiritual message" or intended meaning that serves as "food" for the SOUL. Thus,

Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
Click to expand...

In Mark 4:34 we see only that the statement means that ON THAT PARTICULAR OCCASION Jesus spoke only in parabels and not one thing did He speak to the crowd that was not in parabels.
We know that on many other occasions Jesus DID speak to the people without using parabels.
 
Major said:
In Mark 4:34 we see only that the statement means that ON THAT PARTICULAR OCCASION Jesus spoke only in parabels and not one thing did He speak to the crowd that was not in parabels.
We know that on many other occasions Jesus DID speak to the people without using parabels.
Click to expand...

If it is not true that GOD/Jesus Christ His statements are all in parables (Eze 20:49, Psa 78:2, Mark 4:34), why does HE direct all people to observe the following prohibitions or taboos?

True or false trust in God?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

What happen to us if we "trust other people" on matters pertaining to God?

Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm...

Have we heard this warning?

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart (or feeling) is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
 
Both trees on Eden were real trees. One was a fige tree, and the other a vibe tree. They were real trees.

I was baotices at 17 years old. I was sink into water and took boack up. It was real water and a real event. That reral thing that I did actually experienced was also a simbol. The trees were real trees and also simbolices something. The simbolism of the fuge tree and the vine treee it is all over the Bible, and aklways the same. We can check it with a concordance or with a christians enciclopedia.
 
Goinheix said:
Both trees on Eden were real trees. One was a fige tree, and the other a vibe tree. They were real trees.

I was baotices at 17 years old. I was sink into water and took boack up. It was real water and a real event. That reral thing that I did actually experienced was also a simbol. The trees were real trees and also simbolices something. The simbolism of the fuge tree and the vine treee it is all over the Bible, and aklways the same. We can check it with a concordance or with a christians enciclopedia.
Click to expand...

Yes my dear friend they were REAL TREES!!!

That is the point. They were trees and did not have to symboloize anything at all.

I agree that the fig tree is used to symbolize Israel as are many things but in this case I do not think so since it would have to be ADDED to what the Scriptures say.
 
fil3232003 said:
If it is not true that GOD/Jesus Christ His statements are all in parables (Eze 20:49, Psa 78:2, Mark 4:34), why does HE direct all people to observe the following prohibitions or taboos?

True or false trust in God?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

What happen to us if we "trust other people" on matters pertaining to God?

Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm...

Have we heard this warning?

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart (or feeling) is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Click to expand...

When you say.........."If it is not true that GOD/Jesus Christ His statements are all in parables " ------I must disagree.

SOME of the things the Lord Jesus said in parabels but certainly not ALL things.

Why in Proverbs 3:5?.............Because it is excellant advice.
Why Jeremiah 15:5.....................You have the wrong verse my friend*******"
5He who mocks the poor taunts his Maker; He who rejoices at calamity will not go unpunished.
 
Major said:
Yes my dear friend they were REAL TREES!!!

That is the point. They were trees and did not have to symboloize anything at all.

I agree that the fig tree is used to symbolize Israel as are many things but in this case I do not think so since it would have to be ADDED to what the Scriptures say.
Click to expand...

Fige tree in the Bible does represent or simbolice the people of God under the Law. It does not mean that every fige tree simbolice it. Why is the fige tree simbolice the Law? because genesis 1. Pay attention; the Law is telling you what is right and what is wrong. Why are you so imtersted in not being like this?
 
After GOD told us that He speaking in parables ((Eze 20:49, Psa 78:2, Mark 4:34), let HIM expound on HIS words and never for any man to take the role of God interpreting or expounding on the "intended message" from His words.

How many Theologians, Bible Scholars, Preachers, Priests, Ministers while telling people to believe the Holy Bible, or Sacred Scriptures, themselves believe the following basic criterion for an "able minister of the New Testament?"

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Three importants points on the verse:

1. Able ministers of the New Testament
2. Letter of the WORD
3. Spirit of the WORD

Let alone GOD expound on the foregoing through HIS very WORDS.
 
fil3232003 said:
Before discussing about the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil," how about reviewing what we read regarding the Garden of Eden:

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

We all read that God is speaking in parables:

Ezekiel 20:49 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
Psalms 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Evidently, only GOD can expound on the "intended meaning" from the "letter" or literal meaning of His words. Otherwise, this is what we are witnessing today - diversity of interpretation!

Thus, the warning!

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

(Something to think about)
Click to expand...

By divine revelation, through the very words of God, the following have their SPIRITUAL EQUIVALENTS:

"Garden" - consisting of soil/dusts refers to MAN as in the following:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground...
Genesis 3:19 ... till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Since "garden" is but soil or dust, therefore, MAN must have the following"trees."

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

1. "tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food" - may well represent the BODY of MAN.

2. "tree of life" - clearly symbolize GOD that gives "eternaL LIFE" and this is in the "midst of the gardent that "cannot be seen."

3. "tree of knowledge of good and evil" - no question this refers to the "intellect and feeling" which are the attributes of the SOUL, in the "midst of the gardent" or invisible.

From the foregoing, God reveals the "figure" of MAN at creation. MAN consists of the BODY + SOUL + Spirit of GOD . MAN was created in the "image of JESUS CHRIST" who is the "image of the invisible God" (Col 1:5). JESUS CHRISTY, the Son God, a "LAMB" so was MAN at creation a "sheep."

(To be continued)
 
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