True salvation vs false salvation

F

forgiven61

there are many out there who think they are saved. a form of Godliness but denies the power there of.

this past week ive seen a couple folks i know going through hard times suddenly start posting scriptures on face book. with out the sounding of being judge juror and executioner. we know in Jesus word Not everyone who says Lord Lord .
paul wrote But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
yes i know Both of those who posted . don't get me wrong im glad to see it. its makes a better chance of them being saved. its a spiritual birth the spirit draws the spirit convicts with Godly sorrow.

we dont profess salvation with out some kind of Change 2 Corinthians 5:17 paul gave a list of types sins then wrote And such were some of you. { past} But ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. = present

i went seen a young lady after she Got out of jail . her and another girl said they got saved in Jail.. he gma called me asking me come talk to her. there simply was no change she had jail house religion Jesus also said ring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: repentance Brings change many have a miscarriage at the altar. i have seen it many times . Btw Change means we are a w.i ,p work in progress full Change dont happen over night . its called sanctification 1 step at a time. each step should result in a change
 
Hello forgiven;

I can relate to what you're sharing. Those folks who posted Scriptures on Facebook. You know them.

There are two points I want to share in reaction to True salvation vs false salvation

Ever since email and the internet was born, many folks use these tools as a form of public confession. I read them but I have seen a different person when they're not on their keyboard.

I have ministered to men who were in super maximum prison. Many used jailhouse religion to get them through it but once they were released they broke and threw away the chain and cross.

No matter whether we're posting on social media or attend a Christian program, we ALL must remain who we are in our inner and outer cup no matter where we have come from or where we're going. Jesus teaches this in the 7 woes of hypocrisy and unvirtuous. The Pharisees were no better than those today who shout Lord, Lord but carry out a different attitude.

My daily discipleship time of prayer, repentance, reading the Bible with my wife and moments of listening to God is not in vain. I just attended a two day conference and came together with brothers and sisters who practice the same discipleship. Many I hadn't seen in years. I didn't discern any phony baloney, just good down to earth LOVE and FELLOWSHIP from like minded believers.

We talked about the hypocrisy and unvirtuous behavior. But we also talked about getting past these sins that can taint our salvation. God can bring us to true transparency with Him because in the end He is going to see our hearts anyway. He is the One who builds us during our times of weakness and that is when He reveals His glory.

After the conference I left feeling I was ministered to face to face. The wifi was there for electronic use but it wasn't the deal breaker during our fellowship time. It was leaders speaking to leaders and leaders receiving from leaders.

God bless you, Pastor, and thank you for allowing me to share my testimony.
 
if The Lord leads and so far He is i will be bringing this subject up Sunday night. we have a couple comes to Church that lives together Her parents attend when home from driving truck. i been trying get the door for a personal talk with them.. but so far its been a battle one sunday stomach issues ate something that didnt go well. next week he wrecked his truck they was to come the next sunday but due to his broke nose he got a horrible nose bleed went to E.R .. that is a experience in it self. they wasnt able to come up to that point they been good about coming.
then we have a lady that attends was diagnosed with lung cancer that has spread like wild fire 6-8 weeks doctor says.. He does not have the last say. Here daughter is stressed about it. rightfully so she wont darken the Church doors . times past the made remarks about her mom coming.. know she has facebook religion . i see folks ask for prayer and the lost say i will pray.. God will not hear the prayers of the Lost unlesss its a prayer of repentance.

this one thing i know i cant save anyone or make them get saved. all i can do is plow fallow ground plant seed water and wait for God give the increase
 
Last edited:
bobinfaith said:
I didn't discern any phony baloney
Click to expand...
lots going on since not much remarks made on this subject lets look at vain religion and pure religion

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

the first phrase seems to be religious { proverbs writer write there is a way that seems right unto man but the end there of are the ways of death } aka phony baloney :eek: talk the talk but not walk the walk i am not much for the word religion due to the fact the pope is religious many go through rituals and ceremonies that are not spirit led. then we have the icing on the cake deceiveth his own heart. self deception is what i am talking about on the posting of scriptures . they build themselves up to thinking they are right with the lord but in the end there is no showing of fruits of repentance. no evidence of Change i have a family member that is going through divorce due to infeldility . her husband had his hand caught in the cookie jar . several times. they attend a church that is osas in doctrine. my point is all evidence the fruit he bears is not good spiritual fruit. so this would cause his religion to be in vain .
pure religion

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. there's your fruit we are to bear --- no we are not perfect as in never sin or fall short . but we are commanded to be perfect /complete/ mature. Jesus said

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


so is our religion Religion, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, is “the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship.”

God defines true religion this way: “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world” (James 1:27). In other words, the system of worshiping God is not a matter of observing rites and rituals; rather, it involves practical help for those in need and living a pure life, separated from the sin of the world. source Got questions

something to think about once again for me i dont like the word religion but it is Bible . so is our Belief true or vain

i dont believe we are to be fruit inspectors even though a tree is known by the fruit it bears. we are to be fruit bearers by being connected to the vine bear fruit much fruit and more fruit and our fruit is to remain w/o Christ we can do NOTHING .its in Him not of our own self effort



​

 
Good morning, forgiven;

As I was reading your post during my morning coffee I had to reflect on myself. As a Pastor you and I have to distinguish the word religion in the right context. But I feel we both get it.

I don't say it loosely. On one side when the word religion is used the person doesn't always define what the Scripture is saying or the understanding of praying, confession, redemption, etc...only that religion is simply one's belief in the True God.

Or, when the word religion is used in conversation to define one's faith in god, or many gods, then we have a problem and the Holy Spirit will prompt me to diffuse the false narrative and point them to the Truth.

On the other hand, when religion is used to make a valid point in an intelligent conversation about one's faith then I can work with a listening ear.

Getting back to my conduct. If I'm having conversation with a group of brothers and sisters, what comes out of my mouth can affect the gullible believer. A sense of humor and pure joking is ok but we have to be careful not to say things at the expense of other's feelings.

This is why True Salvation is so important because we are representatives of Christ. We must maintain a spiritually mature disposition and intention to practice the benefits of transparency. There are Scriptures up and down the Old and New Testaments that teach us about being sensitive to other's with listening ears.

Speaking in love, uplifting, admonishing, comforting, encouraging, forgiving, concerning and more including the fruit of the spirit reference Galatians 5:22.

God bless you, forgiven. This is a good topic.
 
This is a difficult topic to discuss and I have to be honest... this one sometimes angers me because I have a family that seems to DECIDE who is saved and is not saved... they decide when someone is struggling and perhaps not living the best of lives that they are NOT really saved and have actually LOST their salvation.

I have a daughter who is living in sin.... Do I believe she is saved??? YES I do... DISOBEDIENCE does not cancel salvation... it arrests FELLOWSHIP with GOD.

If one believes that SALVATION is a supernatural event which occurs ONCE... then how can one lose their salvation or not really be saved? My daughter knows that she is living in sin... Does that disqualify her from salvation simply because she made a choice that came from being pushed in a corner?? If anyone I know is NOT truly saved... I believe that GOD is GOOD and always JUST so I'm not bothered by it... I do not OWN my daughter or anyone else. but... I think sometimes we decide things that are not at all what God is talking about. I tend to look at the Pharisees... the ones who look good on the outside but aren't so good on the inside. Those of us... trying to do our best.. .living our lives... falling along the way and sometimes making wrong choices are not the problem in God's eyes. That is my little opinion about this matter.

WHO is the judge of how fast sanctification must be reached... WHO gets to decide how quickly I NEED TO get it and simply NOT do that anymore if I WANT to be a CHRISTIAN???

This often gets all twisted.

I am not judge nor jury of ANYONE. I am responsible for my actions only.
 
bobinfaith said:
Getting back to my conduct. If I'm having conversation with a group of brothers and sisters, what comes out of my mouth can affect the gullible believer. A sense of humor and pure joking is ok but we have to be careful not to say things at the expense of other's feelings.
Click to expand...
this is true when it comes to the subject of the tongue .there is a wide variety of subjects that can come up. vain talk the pharoses and Sadducees had a religion talk but their heart was far from God. we find this example today . the other can be be saying things out of anger. ( all has this issue) let our button get pushed . then we have prov 6 , 6 things God hates the 7th is a abomination sowing discord among the brethren. business meetings can be breeding grounds for this .


i realize other than you posting this subject in the forum is just about DOA. i was listening to a discussion on the southern Baptist in decline . honestly it was more of southern Baptist woes . than making disciples . people are losing interest in the things of God . sometimes disgust from what they have seen and heard .
years ago i was going to join as a association and presbytery, i was a member of a Church i was doing youth ministry . when it come time to be examined one of the members in a serious tone asked me if i had been a general baptist all my life? i said no sir i was raised methodist . which is true but saved in a baptist Church. one other person asked me when i was ordained which was ok. because his father had preached my charge ..very anointed service . back to the first question i understand you dont want just anyone in the clergy espc the presbytery. important decisions must be made on who is truly called (discernment) if not careful vain religion talk can come of that.. BTW no one asked me if i was saved.
 
In Awe of Him said:
This is a difficult topic to discuss and I have to be honest... this one sometimes angers me because I have a family that seems to DECIDE who is saved and is not saved... they decide when someone is struggling and perhaps not living the best of lives that they are NOT really saved and have actually LOST their salvation.

I have a daughter who is living in sin.... Do I believe she is saved??? YES I do... DISOBEDIENCE does not cancel salvation... it arrests FELLOWSHIP with GOD.

If one believes that SALVATION is a supernatural event which occurs ONCE... then how can one lose their salvation or not really be saved? My daughter knows that she is living in sin... Does that disqualify her from salvation simply because she made a choice that came from being pushed in a corner?? If anyone I know is NOT truly saved... I believe that GOD is GOOD and always JUST so I'm not bothered by it... I do not OWN my daughter or anyone else. but... I think sometimes we decide things that are not at all what God is talking about. I tend to look at the Pharisees... the ones who look good on the outside but aren't so good on the inside. Those of us... trying to do our best.. .living our lives... falling along the way and sometimes making wrong choices are not the problem in God's eyes. That is my little opinion about this matter.

WHO is the judge of how fast sanctification must be reached... WHO gets to decide how quickly I NEED TO get it and simply NOT do that anymore if I WANT to be a CHRISTIAN???

This often gets all twisted.

I am not judge nor jury of ANYONE. I am responsible for my actions only.
Click to expand...
this is not what the subject is about who is who is not this may step on toes but the question might should be asked if one is living in sin and no remorse GODLY SORROW bring repentance. was the person truly saved to start with . our salvation is kept by the power of God. i also realize as in your case it being your daughter its gets rather sensitive. i have a buddy who is good Christian man that after his mother passed he reverted back to alcohol. getting drunk .he made the remark he never felt at the time he was in danger of going back. ( note iam trying to word this so this is not closed ) when the subject of osas vs osnas comes up anger and yes vain talk comes in to play. the reason my buddy felt the way he did was due to his belief . i have another buddy who was saved at young age did not continue with church. at later time he went to the ways of the world. he feels he was in danger at that time because of his belief.

the only thing i can say is if a child of God does fall into sin and stays there. at some point and time like the prodigal son will come to his senses . return back. the fact is sin is sin and it must be dealt with . the Holy spirit will convict .as a Christian we are told to sin NOT but if we do we have a advocate . the Bible is very clear on how we Each one has to deal with sin.

religious people can be mean spirited .i really cant elaborate any more on the subject. i would be willing to discuss with you in priv message . but ultimately its not our Job to say who is and is not .our Job is to deliver the message paul in Galatians wrote out steps in chapter 6 if a brethern be over taken in fault

Galatians 6:1​


“Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”. actually my buddy that went to the world felt he had committed blaspheme ( i dont see that as he came back. ) the Church he know pastors before he came back someone broke in to the Church did some rather nasty things bathroom wise on the altar. at that point he returned back to the Lord conviction..

pete was wild eyed country boy .very rough drug user beer drinker ..in fact we both come from the same background only his was more extreme than mine. he was raised and saved at the Church he know pastors . as i was raised in Church but never saved till age 33 .. Mods admin dont close this thread. its very important to be discussed . teh personal doctrine can not be discussed but using scripturas is a must . so plz who ever else decides to post keep it in scriptures minus our personal doctrine
 
In Awe of Him said:
This is a difficult topic to discuss and I have to be honest... this one sometimes angers me because I have a family that seems to DECIDE who is saved and is not saved... they decide when someone is struggling and perhaps not living the best of lives that they are NOT really saved and have actually LOST their salvation. I have a daughter who is living in sin.... Do I believe she is saved??? YES I do... DISOBEDIENCE does not cancel salvation... it arrests FELLOWSHIP with GOD. If one believes that SALVATION is a supernatural event which occurs ONCE... then how can one lose their salvation or not really be saved? My daughter knows that she is living in sin... Does that disqualify her from salvation simply because she made a choice that came from being pushed in a corner?? If anyone I know is NOT truly saved... I believe that GOD is GOOD and always JUST so I'm not bothered by it... I do not OWN my daughter or anyone else. but... I think sometimes we decide things that are not at all what God is talking about. I tend to look at the Pharisees... the ones who look good on the outside but aren't so good on the inside. Those of us... trying to do our best.. .living our lives... falling along the way and sometimes making wrong choices are not the problem in God's eyes. That is my little opinion about this matter. WHO is the judge of how fast sanctification must be reached... WHO gets to decide how quickly I NEED TO get it and simply NOT do that anymore if I WANT to be a CHRISTIAN??? This often gets all twisted. I am not judge nor jury of ANYONE. I am responsible for my actions only.
Click to expand...

Good morning, In Awe of Him;

Get in line with the rest of us.

Sadly, I also have family who sin yet talk like they have it all figured out, or remain hush hush. I also see from a distance yet who am I to take the place of God? The Scriptures teaches us to get out of God's way for He is judge.

The Scripture teaches us our profound part, to continue to pray for our loved ones without ceasing, continue to love them unconditionally and ask God for wisdom and discernment to admonish them when it is merited or called for (in this matter let God take the lead).

I have situations where my family members were saved, get prayed up daily, attend Church, Youth Group and Bible studies, etc...but still have their sinful secrets. They think my wife and I don't know about. Once again, do I take the place of God as judge, jury and executioner?

I confess it angers me too 😡 and it should. I want everyone to have a relationship with Jesus and look forward to the day of salvation, just like me. But that is not the correct way to go about it.

When we seek the Scriptures we will find God and His Word has a solution for every circumstance but ultimately God is the One who will get Pharoah's attention, so to speak.

So when I question someone's salvation, it's best to apply what the Scripture teaches because I still need to take the speck out of my own eye.

All my life people have prayed for me when I wasn't even thinking of my sinful mindset. For that I'm grateful each day, nevertheless, one day I'll go before God and my life of sin will be long.

Through His promises I'm forgiven but I still have to give account of my time here on earth. So much I will not remember but God will. After God judges me He will see my heart and for that I will reap my salvation, not because of my Dad, siblings or loved ones but only God as my True audience.

God bless you, In Awe of Him.
 
In Awe of Him said:
sanctification must be reached.
Click to expand...
sanctification is growth being made Holy w.i.p step one positional placed into the Body of Christ.the new birth step 2 in where each one of us are progressive we grow in his Grace step 3 the last step finial we made it home /heaven we finished the race , we are now %100 complete a glorified body NO sin
 
bobinfaith said:
So when I question someone's salvation, it's best to apply what the Scripture teaches because I still need to take the speck out of my own eye.
Click to expand...
how soon we forget we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give account . at my Church i will not preach can or can not i preach a know so salvation ..whom the Lord loves he chastises if we dont feel his chastising.. we best be doing some deep soul searching where we really stand
 
forgiven61 said:
this is not what the subject is about who is who is not this may step on toes but the question might should be asked if one is living in sin and no remorse GODLY SORROW bring repentance. was the person truly saved to start with . our salvation is kept by the power of God. i also realize as in your case it being your daughter its gets rather sensitive. i have a buddy who is good Christian man that after his mother passed he reverted back to alcohol. getting drunk .he made the remark he never felt at the time he was in danger of going back. ( note iam trying to word this so this is not closed ) when the subject of osas vs osnas comes up anger and yes vain talk comes in to play. the reason my buddy felt the way he did was due to his belief . i have another buddy who was saved at young age did not continue with church. at later time he went to the ways of the world. he feels he was in danger at that time because of his belief.
Click to expand...
I think I might have misunderstood your content... I am sorry if I have.

As for my daughter... It is only a sensitive topic to me because I do NOT agree with her living condition... and I KNOW she is indeed living in sin. SHE is very clear on how I FEEL about her living situation. In all honesty... there was something that occurred this summer... she moved to a different province and I was supposed to follow her... I saw that things were not right in her workplace... and returned home... and she was STUCK in a situation work wise that was a DISASTER. Had I remained with her... I think her choice would have been different... but as it turns out ... this man who she is dating... had a home and offered to house her so that she could start her new job. I believe she is QUITE aware that this is NOT IDEAL. I also believe she will be married within the year, I have to accept that it is what it is... without justifying it.

I guess I'm not sure of what people mean when they say.... ARE you REALLY SAVED??? I don't understand what this means... and I am guilty of getting angry when I hear people discussing if people are really saved or not.

ABSOLUTELY... I agree with preaching the WORD of GOD.
I believe in telling it as it is.

So... all that to say... SORRY if I answered the wrong question... HA.... Gotta love me for trying to participate.
 
bobinfaith said:
Sadly, I also have family who sin yet talk like they have it all figured out, or remain hush hush. I also see from a distance yet who am I to take the place of God? The Scriptures teaches us to get out of God's way for He is judge.
Click to expand...
This issue I have with my daughter... is actually one that caught me by surprise... It was a slow FADE.. My daughter moved out at 18... she has been independent ever since... and something happens once a child is OUT of the home... it's called life... and that is where rubber meets the road. I was severely ill during her upbringing. I was not a great parent Bob. My daughter has forgiven me... but she does not share the depth of faith that I HAVE. Perhaps she is NOT saved... I just don't look at it that way. WE don't agree on the LGBTQ agenda. It started with tolerance and then she decided that she did not agree with the biblical stance on lifestyle. I guess she got swept away with the progressive doctrines being taught.

I don't think of my daughter as NOT saved... because I know that she loves Jesus.... she just perhaps does not understand how important these social issues are. What is a 30 year old supposed to look like in this day and age?? It seems once our children fall and go astray for a time... they seem to lose their confidence in WHO THEY ARE in CHRIST.

I am not trying to sugar coat things... but as a mother who is totally sold out to CHRIST... I cannot even imagine that GOD is NOT going to finish within her what He has started.

I perhaps need to be corrected on how I deal with people... my daughter is an exception because she is my daughter... so those dynamics are different.

I have been called a BAD CHRISTIAN because I will NOT call out people on their sin. I don't feel it's my place... That is perhaps the problem... Not knowing how to effectively deal with those living in sin.
 
Last edited:
In Awe of Him said:
I think I might have misunderstood your content... I am sorry if I have.
Click to expand...
its ok its all in how you read it no need to be sorry it opened a new door. we have friends there youngest daughter has led a very not so lady life style . 3 kids not married living with another man. she was expecting #4 with this man .. but along 4 th month the Baby stopped developing and had be delivered.. very traumatic on them gma gpa . our church helped pay there electric bill . they now come to church i pray for them to get saved.

don't think of my daughter as NOT saved...
Click to expand...

if i may suggest pray that the Lord will open her eyes speak to her. i speak as a minister your in a tough spot give it to him start praying she will know if she is or is not. then the Holy spirit will start to work

It seems once our children fall and go astray for a time... they seem to lose their confidence in WHO THEY ARE in CHRIST.
Click to expand...

pray she gets that confidence back if she had it she will return in due time
 
In Awe of Him said:
I guess I'm not sure of what people mean when they say.... ARE you REALLY SAVED??? I don't understand what this means... and I am guilty of getting angry when I hear people discussing if people are really saved or not.
Click to expand...
if i can explain are they really saved . when we are born again we become a new creation in Christ OLD things are passed away all things become NEW. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 let me use me and my old life style .. i Loved to smoke weed drink some beer loved whiskey cussed like a sailor ..i could tell you any kind of filthy joke. at about age 30 i was arrested growing weed on federal land. yes i have sold it grown it smoked it. i was a user. at age 33 i was saved . if i was to revert back to that lifestyle does that fit the characteristics of a truly born again person ? no a true Christian will come back.. i have seen it where folks say they got saved but never Changed . there has to be some kind of Change in a person one last example paul used apostle paul was scolding the Corinthians for there ways. they was fighting taking each other to court in law suits.. this is what he wrote 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 "And such were some of you." But you were washed, but you were [d]sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
note how said such were (past tense) But you were ' present tense ' washed you were sanctified but you were justified -- declared righteous just as if you had never sinned forgiven forgotten . all this sin junk lifestyles does not fit in a a Children of God . if i went back to smoking drinking cussing. people would say your not a preacher and many would say if i never returned back to the Lord i was never saved,.

none of us can can judge salvation so often we judge our self by our actions and life style.. hope this helps
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top