Two kinds of pride

[Siloam]

The Bible treats pride as sinful, and so it surely is, but it seems to me that there are two kinds of pride.

One is concerned with the deference someone thinks they deserve, feeling wronged if that deference is not forth-coming. It may be concerned with the opinion of others; it may be concerned with an inflated opinion of one’s self.

But, there is another kind of pride. It is the kind of pride that says “the kind of person I am treats others with respect” or, “the kind of person the Lord has made me to be does not lie”.

In this case the elevated self image is a restraint on the personal ego and works in the opposite manner as the self-important (sin) version.

In some instances, an accurate self image may not allow for the standard to be “the kind of person I am”, but must be “the kind of person I aspire to be with the help of the Lord”.

It is easy to find passages concerning self-aggrandizing pride, but does anyone know of scripture to support pride as a positive restraint on the self?

Or, is this just an illusion, finding fallacious reasons to hold a high self opinion?

Comments welcome.

 

[CCW95A]

The Bible treats pride as sinful, and so it surely is, but it seems to me that there are two kinds of pride.

One is concerned with the deference someone thinks they deserve, feeling wronged if that deference is not forth-coming. It may be concerned with the opinion of others; it may be concerned with an inflated opinion of one’s self.

But, there is another kind of pride. It is the kind of pride that says “the kind of person I am treats others with respect” or, “the kind of person the Lord has made me to be does not lie”.

In this case the elevated self image is a restraint on the personal ego and works in the opposite manner as the self-important (sin) version.

In some instances, an accurate self image may not allow for the standard to be “the kind of person I am”, but must be “the kind of person I aspire to be with the help of the Lord”.

It is easy to find passages concerning self-aggrandizing pride, but does anyone know of scripture to support pride as a positive restraint on the self?

Or, is this just an illusion, finding fallacious reasons to hold a high self opinion?

Comments welcome.

Most likely having pride in oneself is not good, but having pride in another person would not be considered bad.

2Co 7:4.. I am acting with great boldness toward you; I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy. (ESV)

 

[Siloam]

Most likely having pride in oneself is not good, but having pride in another person would not be considered bad.

2Co 7:4.. I am acting with great boldness toward you; I have great pride in you; I am filled with comfort. In all our affliction, I am overflowing with joy. (ESV)

I understand your point, but doing the best in your work is considered taking pride in your work, and is generally considered a good attribute.

Much of military discipline is grounded in what is termed esprit de corps (spirit of the corps), which is a kind of focused and disciplined pride. A soldier that breaks that discipline is not trusted in times of trial, whether on the battlefield or other stressful situations.

Someone that does not take good care of himself may be advised to take more pride in themselves, if for no other reason than because of the witness it is to the Christian life.

I have also noticed that many who habitually lie do so in part because of their low self esteem and they want say things as they wished they were, or hoped would be believed.

We try encourage our children to think of themselves in positive terms, making their image of themselves something to live up to. Yes, we have to correct them from time to time, but if their basic self image is one of being worthy of liking, and able to please the Lord, they will act in ways consistent with that viewpoint.

If we, instead, tell a misbehaving child that he is bad, rather than have done something wrong then he will start to believe that and may think that bad behavior is the only thing he can do.

These are generalizations, and simplifications, but I do think they apply.

When the self-image is a positive thing to live up to and ask the Lord's guidance in I think it is a great positive.

When a self image is something causes one to require others to bow to, it becomes a self serving and is destructive.

 

[CCW95A]

As a Christian our only "boast" would be in what Christ has done for us, and in what he does through us, but never in yourself. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. It is our "soul" that "magnifies" the Lord who lives in us, not our self's.

Gal 6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[Siloam]

As a Christian our only "boast" would be in what Christ has done for us, and in what he does through us, but never in yourself. We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. It is our "soul" that "magnifies" the Lord who lives in us, not our self's.

Gal 6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Boasting would not be the kind of pride I am trying to define. It is a demand on others. The kind of pride I am talking about puts the demands back on the self.

A Biblical example that has come to mind is Moses. At first, he had insufficient assessment of his own ability to speak as God commanded. He had to have Aaron accompany him and he had to speak through Aaron. Later, Moses gained more confidence in himself, as well as in the Lord and was able to become a decisive leader.

There is such a thing as false modesty (or incorrect modesty since false modesty has cultural connotations). Turning down or running away from a task God has set before one because the Christian does not recognize that he is God's instrument.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Prideful .............. arrogance - self centered - too good for others - knows it all and takes the Glory that is do God.

Pride - Prideful - Takes Pride ......... attributes - quality or person or wormanship - Stives for excellence in everything they do - Takes value in what is done. Good Charactor......

There is indeed to types of Pride......
One we are warned against
One we should strive for.
God Bless
Jim

 

[Flavio]

One major change the Lord operated in me was pride.

I always considered humility to be the 'least important of all virtues' but it's not, it's quite the opposite.

 

[CCW95A]

Boasting would not be the kind of pride I am trying to define. It is a demand on others. The kind of pride I am talking about puts the demands back on the self.

A Biblical example that has come to mind is Moses. At first, he had insufficient assessment of his own ability to speak as God commanded. He had to have Aaron accompany him and he had to speak through Aaron. Later, Moses gained more confidence in himself, as well as in the Lord and was able to become a decisive leader.

There is such a thing as false modesty (or incorrect modesty since false modesty has cultural connotations). Turning down or running away from a task God has set before one because the Christian does not recognize that he is God's instrument.

Bother, "confidence" has nothing to do with "pride". Confidence is boldness that only comes from the Holy Spirits abiding on a person. Moses was "anointed" by the Holy Spirit for his mission given to him by God. Moses had no ability which is why he wanted someone to help in his speaking. Once noticing the anointing he had on himself that all changed, but it had nothing to do with "pride". Humility is a man who has all of his cares, no matter what they are cast upon the Lord, and then the Lord becomes their strength. Having pride in ones work seems so innocent and feels right to have, but it is not. As Jesus himself said, "I can of my own self do nothing...." (John 5:30)

Joh 5:30.. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 5:31.. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Having pride in our self is never good, our pride comes from the one living inside us as he is the one who does the "works".

It was Jesus's Father who testified of his son.

Joh 5:32.. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Pro 27:2.. Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Jesus never prided himself of his own works, that is what his Father did.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Bother, "confidence" has nothing to do with "pride". Confidence is boldness that only comes from the Holy Spirits abiding on a person. Moses was "anointed" by the Holy Spirit for his mission given to him by God. Moses had no ability which is why he wanted someone to help in his speaking. Once noticing the anointing he had on himself that all changed, but it had nothing to do with "pride". Humility is a man who has all of his cares, no matter what they are cast upon the Lord, and then the Lord becomes their strength. Having pride in ones work seems so innocent and feels right to have, but it is not. As Jesus himself said, "I can of my own self do nothing...." (John 5:30)

Joh 5:30.. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 5:31.. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Having pride in our self is never good, our pride comes from the one living inside us as he is the one who does the "works".

It was Jesus's Father who testified of his son.

Joh 5:32.. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Pro 27:2.. Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Jesus never prided himself of his own works, that is what his Father did.

To have pride in your work is not anything God is against. Same word big difference in meaning. I would rather have some one who takes pride in what they do over some one who does not any day. Pride in what you do means that you give it more then just your best. You do it right and you strive for excellence.

Seems you are taking pride in what you do and confusing it with selfishness and taking the glory or credit as your own and not Gods. These are not the same things.
Blessings
jim

 

[CCW95A]

To have pride in your work is not anything God is against. Same word big difference in meaning. I would rather have some one who takes pride in what they do over some one who does not any day. Pride in what you do means that you give it more then just your best. You do it right and you strive for excellence.

Seems you are taking pride in what you do and confusing it with selfishness and taking the glory or credit as your own and not Gods. These are not the same things.
Blessings
jim

Brother, Jesus did not take any pride in "his work", but in what his father did through him. It takes the "focus" off of ones self and places it in another.
Paul had no pride in himself for anything, it in fact the opposite, and he fully understood that it was his weakness in himself that brought about the power of God in his life.

2Co 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

 

[aha]

Ah, I love concepts, word, definitions, usage : )

Things to be considered:
A: the Speaker (thoughts the speaker wants to convey)
B: the listener (perception of the listener)
C: the popular listener perception (related to B)

D: words usage usually is in letter C
But: words can be neutral that it can be directed as positive D+ or negative context D-

: what is important, I think, is where it was based or towards upon makes it a positive or negative.​

Say: Love
Popular perception (C) = is positive context.
But, can be used in (D+ or D-)

D+ (Love that is based upon or towards upon Godly things)
D- (based upon or towards upon ungodly things​

Same case:

with Pride (negative perception in C)
Faith (positive perception in C)​

that is: Language is fluid, what matters is item A, I think, what comes/intention of the heart

BUT….

This is my point: we need to consider C = Public perception when we use “words”….. the word may be clean in our hearts (A) but it can be dirty to public perception (C).

Love is more concerned with the Listener (B)may benefit from I think rather that what the Speaker thinks (A)…..

Thus, in the case of the word "Pride" ... or even "Faith" or even a "Promise, a vow or an oath"....it is important where it was based upon...or towards to....

For "Pride"
I think yes it can be used in D+, a positive context..... although the popular context is it is D- negative context....

Just a thought : )

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Brother, Jesus did not take any pride in "his work", but in what his father did through him. It takes the "focus" off of ones self and places it in another.
Paul had no pride in himself for anything, it in fact the opposite, and he fully understood that it was his weakness in himself that brought about the power of God in his life.

2Co 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

Again you are tripping up on the word Pride.......and the word Proud..........
There is an arrogance that can come with pride or being proud and this is where it becomes sin and wrong.............

Paul even told us to strive for Excellence............You can not strive for excellence if you do not take pride in what you do. This is also being proud of what you do and should Not Evever be connected with an arrogance or self seeking or self centered attitude.

We are to do everything as unto the Lord..........So.........you should be striving for that excellence in what you do or taking pride in what you do.

Dont get tripped up with these two words...........Pride and proud......as in many words there are several meanings..........gay as in joyful and gay as in sin. same word.......
When I do a job i take pride in what I do...........which means I strive to do it better then average and pleasing unto the Lord........I could simply just go slap it together and be done with it but that would be shauty craftsmanship and not doing it as unto the Lord.

No sir when I am finished I am proud of what I did for I know I went above the normal and can stand behind my work AND as Always Giving All The Glory Unto God for it is through Him that I can do this and rise above the average or normal. I am not ashamed of what I have done.

God Bless
Jim

 

[CCW95A]

No sir when I am finished I am proud of what I did for I know I went above the normal and can stand behind my work AND as Always Giving All The Glory Unto God for it is through Him that I can do this and rise above the average or normal. I am not ashamed of what I have done.

Brother look at what you are saying. First you can do all things through Christ, "All The Glory Unto God for it is through Him ". Then the end you are saying "I am not ashamed of what I have done". Which is it, are you doing it, or is it the Lord doing it through you? It can only be one or the other. I can not do anything that is good of my own self (me). I am about as dumb as a "pile of rocks", (you can see I very little self esteem) and have absolutely no pride in myself to do anything. The good news is God can make this pile of rocks cry out, so my pride is not in the rocks (me), but in the one who is able make it cry out. That is in whom I boast about, and I am very proud, and have tremendous pride in (God), but not in myself on any level. Can any man do good in his own power and strength looking to himself as the motive, and means to do it? Can any man take pride for what he has done. It is the "intents" of man's heart that God looks at and is concerned about, not if he has self esteem.

I am not coming down on you at all, I am just speaking what I believe to be true, and in how I live my life.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Brother look at what you are saying. First you can do all things through Christ, "All The Glory Unto God for it is through Him ". Then the end you are saying "I am not ashamed of what I have done". Which is it, are you doing it, or is it the Lord doing it through you? It can only be one or the other. I can not do anything that is good of my own self (me). I am about as dumb as a "pile of rocks", (you can see I very little self esteem) and have absolutely no pride in myself to do anything. The good news is God can make this pile of rocks cry out, so my pride is not in the rocks (me), but in the one who is able make it cry out. That is in whom I boast about, and I am very proud, and have tremendous pride in (God), but not in myself on any level. Can any man do good in his own power and strength looking to himself as the motive, and means to do it? Can any man take pride for what he has done. It is the "intents" of man's heart that God looks at and is concerned about, not if he has self esteem.

I am not coming down on you at all, I am just speaking what I believe to be true, and in how I live my life.

Curtis,
Many english words have more then one meaning.........
If I say she is over taken with sorrow...........you will think she is sad or depressed andso froth/
Now Scripture says The Blessing of The Lord maketh me rich and adds no sorrow to it......
Here the word Sorrow means Toil - Struggle
Same word - sorrow and sorrow

When scripture refers to Pride as in God resist the proud and so on it is as Haughty - Big headed or know it all or holds that he is better at something over every one........

Pride also means - as in Jack takes pride in His work......meaning he has not a slothful attutude towards what he does. He does it unto the Lord and strives for ecellence and goes the extra mile to do it better then normal or what is expected. Jack can then stand back admire what he has done and be proud ( happy - pleased - satisfied ) with what he has done.

You are hung up on words having but one meaning. That wont fly bro.
I am smarter then a pile of rocks and can do a whole lot of things in which the Lord has blessed me with the ability to do so.

God works through you Yes............unless you are a puppet or a zombee - you are going to have to do something - Will you do it half way - just getten by or will you strive to do it better then the average person ?

God gives us the ability, the blessing but it is still us doing the physical work and we give the Glory to God. God can give you Curtis the ability to make the best saw horses east of the mississippi - But Unless you put forth 110 percent effort - they will not either get done or be average or kinlen for the fire.

Blessings
Jim

 

[Siloam]

We each have been given a particular set of gifts, spiritually, mentally, physically. Recognizing those gifts enable us to do the tasks set for us. If one is a leader, in whatever manner, he should know and _believe in_ the talents the Lord has provided. This may even recognizing that one is God's choice in that situation. I do not think this is sinful pride, even where it means that others would not be better or even equal to that task. This does not make that leader worth more in any final analysis, only that for that position, that leader is God's person. It does not even mean that that leader is more important, only that he is the right one for that job. And he had better recognize that. A leader cannot effectively lead if he or she is continuously questioning their own rightness.

This is the other side of what Paul was talking about in I Cor 12:14-26

If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. If they were all one member, where would the body be? But now there are many members, but one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.​

A foot should not try to be an eye, but it should surely recognize that it was made a foot and provide motion for the body. The eye should recognize that it shouldn't try to hear, but needs to recognize that the eyes can see what is about the body, and had better well be about that business.

There are many brothers who I admire as strong believers. When I was a young Christian, I tried to be an imitator of them and that is well (I cor 11:1). As I am getting older, I still wish to imitate particular aspects of those believers, but now I have a better understanding of the particular gifts I have than I had before, and imitation of the positive aspects of others now provide additional resources to perfect (always an unfinished task) myself according to my special mix of gifts.

I have come to the realization that to be God's person in what lies before me, I must believe that He has provided me with those gifts required, and will provide additional strength at need.

I will never be a pastor. I will probably never be a hymn writer (I can barely carry a tune). I can minister to the physical needs of those around me, and to some I can share what Christ has done for me.

How could a mechanic bear to work on someones car if he did not believe he could make it run well? How could a surgeon do his job if he did not recognize the worth of his skills?

 

[Major]

The Bible treats pride as sinful, and so it surely is, but it seems to me that there are two kinds of pride.

One is concerned with the deference someone thinks they deserve, feeling wronged if that deference is not forth-coming. It may be concerned with the opinion of others; it may be concerned with an inflated opinion of one’s self.

But, there is another kind of pride. It is the kind of pride that says “the kind of person I am treats others with respect” or, “the kind of person the Lord has made me to be does not lie”.

In this case the elevated self image is a restraint on the personal ego and works in the opposite manner as the self-important (sin) version.

In some instances, an accurate self image may not allow for the standard to be “the kind of person I am”, but must be “the kind of person I aspire to be with the help of the Lord”.

It is easy to find passages concerning self-aggrandizing pride, but does anyone know of scripture to support pride as a positive restraint on the self?

Or, is this just an illusion, finding fallacious reasons to hold a high self opinion?

Comments welcome.

I am not sure I understand your question however I would say that "self-control" is one of those things that a Christians should be able to do.

In a department store a young husband was minding the baby while his wife was making a purchase. The infant was wailing, but the father seemed quite controlled and unperturbed as he quietly said, “Easy now, Albert, control your temper.” A woman passing by remarked, “Sir, I must congratulate you! You seem to know just how to speak to a baby.” “Baby nothing!” came the reply. “MY name is Albert!”

Acts 24:25............
"While Paul was discussing righteousness, self-control, and the coming judgment, Felix became frightened and said, “Go away for now, and when I have an opportunity, I will send for you.”