Watch And Be Ready For What???

[Major]

The event that Paul speaks of in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6 is not the rapture, but the "day of the Lord', so the only way for the rapture to be the next prophetic event is if it and the "day of the Lord" are one in the same.

As has been articulated to you before my friend, you are confused in the process of Bible prophecy because you have become rooted in the SDA teachings which are in error on this particular event.

In the study of Eschatology, these two events appear to be similar but are in fact separate. Both happen during the end times and both describe a return of Christ. Yet there are key differences. The following is a comparison of the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ, highlighting the key differences noted in Scripture and I encourage you to study them instead of listening to others who may lead you away from the literal Word of God.

1) Meeting in the Air - Versus - Returning with Him
In the Rapture , believers meet the Lord in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17..............
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

In the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord. There my friend is the KEY to understanding!!!

Revelation 19:14
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean".

 

[Major]

"so is the "day of the Lord" the Rapture or not?"

The answer is in scripture and I would suggest that you make an effort to find it for yourself .... your choice

But you will do .... what you will do

Denying the Lord's promise on the matter is not a good idea for sure .... and this behavior actually makes no good sense because you have nothing to lose by taking Him at His word

And you might have everything to lose by your denial

No literate Bible believing Christian who knows the details of prophetic scripture will ever be fooled by Satan's beast because this one has already been exposed in detail and will easily be recognized by his behavior and actions ..... all of this has already been documented beforehand

The argument proposed by post-tribulation thinking is that if one believes in what you call the a pre-tribulation "rapture" and it does not happen that those expecting will either lose their faith and or will be deceived by Satan's beast

This is highly improbable and not representative of a true believer's standing .... neither thing would ever happen

A true believer who is well versed in scripture, and I do not know of any who are not, would never be deceived on this issue

And then for the post-tribulation pied pipers to call the Lord's promise a "lie of the Devil" is unadulterated blasphemy and should be suspect of piper

The "Day of the Lord" is His coming day of trial and judgment upon an unbelieving world [Psalms 2; Ezekiel 39; Joel 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 14; Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 6:12-17; 14:8; 16:1-16; 17:16-18; 19:1-6; 19:11-21] ..... to be followed by His millennial kingdom upon the earth [Micah 4; Revelation 20:4]

And in the process He will seek to destroy all human rule to make way for His own .... and unprecedented time of vexation, confusion, deception, and destruction upon the earth that will last for 2550 days

But just before He will call His true ecclesia out just as He says

[1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

Here is the evidence for those dwelling as immortals in the heavenly state of existence during the coming tribulation

[Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9]

Here are the same contending with the Lord against Satan's beast and his human followers at Armageddon [Revelation 19:11-21]

And the same ruling with Him over His coming millennial kingdom of mortals [Revelation 20:4] [those on thrones ..... the symbol of His government]

If you are looking for a resurrection just after the tribulation of those days you are looking in the wrong place .... the gatherings of Matthew 25:29-31; Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; [of Israel] and Matthew 25:31-46 [of the nations of the Gentiles] are not resurrections of anyone, but for separation of the mortal survivors of the tribulation period .... those found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom upon the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

If you are looking for your resurrection at the 7th judgment trumpet sounding of Revelation this will not come ..... there are no resurrections scheduled with this trumpet

If you enter the tribulation period and turn to the Lord in repentance you will most likely be martyred for your faith .... but you will have to wait for your resurrection at the end of the battle of Armageddon [6:9-11; 14:13; 15:2-3; 20:4 [those beheaded]]

And I will assume that you are not one of the Lord's two prophets of chapter 11 .... these two will be resurrected just before the battle of Armageddon after being killed by Satan's beast [Revelation 11]

The last trumpet call for the Lord's ecclesia of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time is a very different trumpet sounding and not associated with any of the 7 judgment trumpets or the sounding of the "great" gathering trumpet just after the days of the tribulation which will herald the gathering of mortal Israelites that survive the same [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Matthew 25:29-31]

The first trumpet sounding for the Lord's church is found here [Revelation 1:10] .... the Lord's first formal communication to the assembled church [Revelation 1:1-1:20]

And I might suggest to you that if you are entertaining the idea of the post-tribulation pied pipers that the Lord's pre-tribulation "harpazo" action is a lie of the devil .... that you consider the possibility of the devil's lie being that of the post-tribulation ruse

Satan is coming to the earth for a short time at the Lord's casting and he will be out to deceive and destroy as may humans that he can hunt down with the intent of keeping them from the truth and stealing their potential salvation

I am just saying do not let him snooker you into the tribulation if in fact you are alive at the time

Now this I agree with!

 

[Major]

I just wanted to note here that these statements are not necessarily true. The thing that now occurs to me to first ask is, "what does it mean to watch and be sober?"

If it means "watch the world around you and be sober about looking for the unfolding of specific events," you may have a point.

If it means what Abdicate suggested (Luke 21:34), then it means something more like "watch yourself and be sober about continually living your life as a disciple of Christ." If so, what "the day of the Lord" specifically entails is not the goal or context of the passage. Instead, it is an admonition about the way we choose to live.

When I first read this passage, and the Mat 25 parable, I also assumed that "watch" meant "watch for signs in the world around you," but I changed my mind after listening to the counsel of Christians much wiser than me I now think that "watch" is "watch yourself," and the goal of that parable and this passage is to motivate us that, since time is short, do not wait, get up now, get out there and do God's work, with joy, vitality, perseverance and urgency.

I will admit, I don't have a end times timeline I'm very confident in. In truth, I think we know what we need to know about it, which is not everything, and if we try to fill in the blanks with what we can "figure out," it's inevitable that we'll get it wrong, because we don't have enough facts to form valid premises.

So if I tell you that I am one of the ones "disinterested in knowing exactly what this future event is," but instead, I'm very interested in these passages' motivation for us to live our lives fully sold out to God, because time is short for whatever He has planned next, I hope you don't mistake me for an "an unconverted fool"

Peace.

Excellent advice and also exegesis!

 

[Straightshot]

"I just wanted to note here that these statements are not necessarily true. The thing that now occurs to me to first ask is, "what does it mean to watch and be sober?"


Being sober [self diciplined] and observant is the walk the believer must take .... each and every day .... so as not to be distracted by the world around [this is possible]

The Lord's warning serves two purposes

To keep His ecclesia "hot" and not to stray [this is possible]

And to warn those that think they are saved and are not .... those "lukewarm"

He says that it would be better to be "cold"[unsaved] than to be "lukewarm" .... why?

An unbeliever is more likely to turn than one who is a fence sitter [pretender] and satisfied with their unrecognized unsaved condition .... deceived or by choice

Those without oil [His holy spirit] of the professing church are not saved, but think they are and so He must shut the door on them

However, He does say that if these will turn and repent that He will save them

The door is currently still open .... but the day is coming when He will shut it, and then proceed to bring His unprecedented judgment upon an unbelieving world of around 8 billion or more

[Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

Those living at the time who are "ready", saved, and "hot" will avoid the trip into the hour [time] of His coming judgment [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9]

 

[Major]

I don't care what your opinions are, I'm only interested in Biblical evidence.

If God, through Paul, gives us a standing order to "watch and be sober", only an unconverted fool would be disinterested in knowing exactly what this future event is for which the Lord wants us to watch and be sober. Since the only future event Paul mentions - which is the context of the entire passage - is "the day of the Lord", there's only one question remaining: Is or is not the "day of the Lord" the Rapture?

Now that is not really true is my brother. I for one do not want anyone to accept one single OPINION from me. That is why I base everything in the Word of God. I have given that to you time and time again but THAT IS WHAT you are rejecting and instead of the Word of God you have accepted the SDA dogma and made that your agenda.

 

[Straightshot]

This is true above SDA teaching does not recognize a pre-tribultion "rapture", but teaches that their church will go through the tribulation as "super" Christians not subjected to the wiles of the same .... this teaching is bogus and not true

 

[JohnC]

I just wanted to note here that these statements are not necessarily true. The thing that now occurs to me to first ask is, "what does it mean to watch and be sober?"

You make a good point here... I think the answer is "Both"....

Why watch what's going on in the world? Well - as we see the world events unfold, seemingly falling into place according to what the Bible says - then we gain confidence in taking the bible "Seriously"....

But, watching what's going on "Outside" is only good for so much.... If we aren't careful - we can get ARROGANT and foolish...

That's where looking "Inward" is so important.... Be prepared for God at any time... Search out your own life for unconfessed sin, presumptuous attitudes, God denying doctrines... Make sure the Light of Christ is shining in your own life...

If we look at the 4 parables in Matt 24-25: the good and evil servants, the 10 Talents, the virgins, and the Sheep/goats - we see that all of them are variously focused on both an Inside and outside mentality.... what's in your heart, but also what you do and pay attention to...

The good and evil stewards - when the master is away - do you lord your leadership over others? Do you view yourself as The Master - or are you simply another servant with responsibility?

The 10 talents - it's not enough to just NOT be bad to others, but we are each given responsibility of our own to complete...

The virgins - now, there's no expectation of increase.... Are you preparing YOURSELF - and continuing on in perseverance towards God's specification?

The Sheep/Goats - "Serving God" alone is not good enough in itself - serving OTHERS and especially our brothers is how we express our service to God.... (Think book of James)

 

[Phoneman777]

As has been articulated to you before my friend, you are confused in the process of Bible prophecy because you have become rooted in the SDA teachings which are in error on this particular event.

In the study of Eschatology, these two events appear to be similar but are in fact separate. Both happen during the end times and both describe a return of Christ. Yet there are key differences. The following is a comparison of the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ, highlighting the key differences noted in Scripture and I encourage you to study them instead of listening to others who may lead you away from the literal Word of God.

1) Meeting in the Air - Versus - Returning with Him
In the Rapture , believers meet the Lord in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17..............
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

In the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord. There my friend is the KEY to understanding!!!

Revelation 19:14
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean".

Major, the Rapture idea to which you are hopelessly devoted originated with Jesuit Francisco Ribera, not the SDA church, and was soundly rejected by Protestant Reformers for over 300 years before the SDA church ever existed. Please stop spreading misinformation about the history of your beliefs. I can only assume that you do so in order to conceal the fact that you have chosen to embrace as truth a doctrine from an institution, the Roman Catholic church, which has failed to achieve even a Biblical position on the most fundamental Christian teaching - salvation by grace through faith alone - and countless other positions as well, among which are that the Pope is God on Earth; submission to him is necessary for salvation; Mary serves as Intercessor; bread and wine are transubstantiated into literal body and blood of Jesus; idolatrous worship of "saints", and too, too many more to list. There is an abundance of resources online that will confirm what I've written here, to please be assured that I am not making this up.

 

[Silk]

I'm not Catholic and have only seen the rapture scriptures recently but now that I see them, they run throughout the Bible. For me, they were hard to see because I had preconceived notions about it. None of these involved Catholic dogma. It's kinda like this picture of the face of Jesus in the mud and snow. The story: "
The image above has circulated in Britain since the late 1950s. It contains a face of Christ, but not everyone can see it straight away. The story that goes with it says it was taken by a Chinese photographer who was riding home one day through the snow. According to the story…
His soul was troubled. He had been witnessing a great movement towards Christianity among his friends since the Japanese invasion. He longed to know the truth of what he had been hearing from Christian missionaries.
As he rode along he said, “Lord, if I could only see your face, I would believe.” Instantly a voice spoke to his heart, “Take a picture. Take a picture.”
He looked out at the melting snow forming pools of water and revealing here and there the black earth. It was an unattractive scene. Nevertheless, being thus strangely compelled, the man descended and focused his camera on the snowy roadway.
Curious to know the outcome of the incident, he developed the film at once upon returning to his home. Out from the black and white areas of the snow scene a face looked at him, full of tenderness and love - the face of Christ. He became a Christian as a result of this experience. The Church of St Ninian’s in Prestwick, Ayrshire, was given a copy of the image by a retired Bishop of Singapore in the 1980s, and have it displayed outside their church hall. “It proved to be quite a talking point,” says one of the church members.
( copied from rejesus.co.uk)

I was originally given the pic like this (as a child)



Can you see the face?

 

[Phoneman777]

"I just wanted to note here that these statements are not necessarily true. The thing that now occurs to me to first ask is, "what does it mean to watch and be sober?"


Being sober [self diciplined] and observant is the walk the believer must take .... each and every day .... so as not to be distracted by the world around [this is possible]

The Lord's warning serves two purposes

To keep His ecclesia "hot" and not to stray [this is possible]

And to warn those that think they are saved and are not .... those "lukewarm"

He says that it would be better to be "cold"[unsaved] than to be "lukewarm" .... why?

An unbeliever is more likely to turn than one who is a fence sitter [pretender] and satisfied with their unrecognized unsaved condition .... deceived or by choice

Those without oil [His holy spirit] of the professing church are not saved, but think they are and so He must shut the door on them

However, He does say that if these will turn and repent that He will save them

The door is currently still open .... but the day is coming when He will shut it, and then proceed to bring His unprecedented judgment upon an unbelieving world of around 8 billion or more

[Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:15-19]

Those living at the time who are "ready", saved, and "hot" will avoid the trip into the hour [time] of His coming judgment [1 Thessalonians 5:1-9]

While it's true that Paul is an evangelist, there is not one hint in the passage to indicate Paul's order to the church to "watch and be sober" is for the purpose of evangelizing infidels. Rather, his concern is for the church in the simplest terms possible:

• Paul makes it crystal clear that the lost will be overtaken by the "day of the Lord" because they are in darkness and asleep.
• He adjures us to "not sleep", which implies that we are capable of that sleep.
• He then gives us the preventative measure to avoid ending up like the lost: "watch and be sober"

In other words, "watch" for the "day of the Lord" while remaining in a "sober" surrendered walk with Him.

 

[Straightshot]

"Major, the Rapture idea to which you are hopelessly devoted originated with Jesuit Francisco Ribera"


This story about Ribdera, Margaret MacDonald, and Darby is a total hoax brought on by the likes of David MacPherson

MacDonald' s purported vision actually has the church going through the tribulation .... not escaping the same, and the idea that Darby concocted the pre-tribulation rapture from the vision is obviously a made up ruse .... Darby just studied himself approved and discovered a biblical truth already revealed

Her vision is on the Internet

The pre-tribulation "harpazo" action to immortalize His ecclesia is scriptural and written long before any other commentaries of men

The "rapture bashers" like MacPherson are the ones who call this truth a "lie of the devil" .... and these frauds have been exposed for what they are

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm not Catholic and have only seen the rapture scriptures recently but now that I see them, they run throughout the Bible. For me, they were hard to see because I had preconceived notions about it. None of these involved Catholic dogma. It's kinda like this picture of the face of Jesus in the mud and snow. The story: "
The image above has circulated in Britain since the late 1950s. It contains a face of Christ, but not everyone can see it straight away. The story that goes with it says it was taken by a Chinese photographer who was riding home one day through the snow. According to the story…
His soul was troubled. He had been witnessing a great movement towards Christianity among his friends since the Japanese invasion. He longed to know the truth of what he had been hearing from Christian missionaries.
As he rode along he said, “Lord, if I could only see your face, I would believe.” Instantly a voice spoke to his heart, “Take a picture. Take a picture.”
He looked out at the melting snow forming pools of water and revealing here and there the black earth. It was an unattractive scene. Nevertheless, being thus strangely compelled, the man descended and focused his camera on the snowy roadway.
Curious to know the outcome of the incident, he developed the film at once upon returning to his home. Out from the black and white areas of the snow scene a face looked at him, full of tenderness and love - the face of Christ. He became a Christian as a result of this experience. The Church of St Ninian’s in Prestwick, Ayrshire, was given a copy of the image by a retired Bishop of Singapore in the 1980s, and have it displayed outside their church hall. “It proved to be quite a talking point,” says one of the church members.
( copied from rejesus.co.uk)

I was originally given the pic like this (as a child)
View attachment 1355


Can you see the face?

I'm sorry but I just can't accept that all those Protestant Reformers who ate, drank, and slept the Scriptures and measured their prayers in hours got it wrong about the Papal Antichrist and Jesuit Futurism, while the church of today that is so backwards, hedonistic, and distracted with such an extreme level of media saturation that we don't even have time to pray, is somehow more enlightened and capable of discerning truth than they were.

 

[Silk]

Did you see Straight's post? Did you see the face? If not - how about this angle:

 

[Phoneman777]

"Major, the Rapture idea to which you are hopelessly devoted originated with Jesuit Francisco Ribera"


This story about Ribdera, Margaret MacDonald, and Darby is a total hoax brought on by the likes of David MacPherson

MacDonald' s purported vision actually has the church going through the tribulation .... not escaping the same, and the idea that Darby concocted the pre-tribulation rapture from the vision is a ruse

Her vision is on the Internet

The pre-tribulation "harpazo" action to immortalize His ecclesia is scriptural and written long before any other commentaries of men

The "rapture bashers" like MacPherson are the ones who call this truth a "lie of the devil" .... and these frauds have been exposed for what they are

Of course Darby added the Rapture. It is traced all the way back to him.

 

[Straightshot]

The reformers and later reconstrucionist spin offs were not only wrong about the study of the the Lord's prophetic word and did not understand them in the first place, they proceeded to concoct their own proprietary ambitions claims to have the truth against the same claims of one another

And they made their error by inserting the idea of a Euro centered Pope/Antichrist/ revived Roman empire

None of this is in the prophetic scriptures and only speculated and inserted by them

They lacked sound prophetical study and did not have the hindsight we have today, and instead they build their own proprietary religions upon the offset against the RCC .... and all were anti-Semitic [anti-Israel] to the max

At the same time the reconstructionists made up cult like dogmas to separate themselves from the others [JWs, SDAs, Calvinists, Mormons, William Branham followers, H. B. Armstrong followers, etc. are prime examples]

 

[Straightshot]

Of course Darby added the Rapture. It is traced all the way back to him


I would suggest that you return to the related scriptures written long before Darby

Don't let the hoaxters fool you

Your tracing needs adjustment back to your Bible

 

[Phoneman777]

Of course Darby added the Rapture. It is traced all the way back to him


I would suggest that you return to the related scriptures written long before Darby

Don't let the hoaxters fool you

Your tracing needs adjustment back to your Bible

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Phoneman777]

I'm not Catholic and have only seen the rapture scriptures recently but now that I see them, they run throughout the Bible. For me, they were hard to see because I had preconceived notions about it. None of these involved Catholic dogma. It's kinda like this picture of the face of Jesus in the mud and snow. The story: "
The image above has circulated in Britain since the late 1950s. It contains a face of Christ, but not everyone can see it straight away. The story that goes with it says it was taken by a Chinese photographer who was riding home one day through the snow. According to the story…
His soul was troubled. He had been witnessing a great movement towards Christianity among his friends since the Japanese invasion. He longed to know the truth of what he had been hearing from Christian missionaries.
As he rode along he said, “Lord, if I could only see your face, I would believe.” Instantly a voice spoke to his heart, “Take a picture. Take a picture.”
He looked out at the melting snow forming pools of water and revealing here and there the black earth. It was an unattractive scene. Nevertheless, being thus strangely compelled, the man descended and focused his camera on the snowy roadway.
Curious to know the outcome of the incident, he developed the film at once upon returning to his home. Out from the black and white areas of the snow scene a face looked at him, full of tenderness and love - the face of Christ. He became a Christian as a result of this experience. The Church of St Ninian’s in Prestwick, Ayrshire, was given a copy of the image by a retired Bishop of Singapore in the 1980s, and have it displayed outside their church hall. “It proved to be quite a talking point,” says one of the church members.
( copied from rejesus.co.uk)

I was originally given the pic like this (as a child)
View attachment 1355


Can you see the face?

Can't see it. Any hints?

 

[Straightshot]

"We'll have to agree to disagree"

We don't have to agree at all .... happens all of the time on public media forums, particularly on religious issues

The Lord always draws a distinctive line .... no shades of gray

He calls the picking of one side, or the other

.... right, or left .... if you get what I mean

 

[Silk]

Can't see it. Any hints?

Seriously? - look at the 2nd post of it where it is rightside up. The face is in the top middle.