What’s the meaning of receiving mark of the beast and of not being able to buy or sell?

ok, well it wasn't really a word in any of my Oxford/Collins dictionaries.

Thanks.

I guess the confusion is over what tense the book of Revelation is written in and exactly WHEN it was written. Nobody has ever fixed on a date, was it all written at the same time or were some parts written later? Who was it for was it for the seven churches in the mediterranean or for all time. Reading it from thousands of years later would have been very different from reading it when it was first written. I mean I did not know John or ever met Paul. I don't live in the Mediterranean in all those places. I have no idea who the Nicolatians are..and I am miles away from Jerusalem, its not like I can just cross the Red sea to get there I need to cross the Tasman Sea and Indian Oceans

Not so.

Irenaeus is important to the dating of Revelation for two reasons:
(1) he was in Smyrna during his youth where Revelation circulated, and
(2) he was the disciple of Polycarp (bishop of Smyrna), who was the disciple of John.

Irenaeus writes,
But if it had been necessary to announce his name plainly at the present time, it would have been spoken by him who saw the apocalypse. For it was not seen long ago, but almost in our own time, at the end of the reign of Domitian.
Source:https://www.evidenceunseen.com/bible-difficulties-2/nt-difficulties/jude/date-of-revelation/

The Roman ruler "Domitian ruled from 81 to 96 AD. Therefor it does not take a degree to see that the "late" date of 95 AD is the correct date.
 
Not really...

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen (past), and the things which are (present), and the things which shall be hereafter; (future).

The big mixup comes when people think too hard on it and try symbolizing things to fit their preconceived notions.

It was a letter to be read to all the Churches, not analyzed, dissected and infected...

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
In those days were letters sent by hand or was it pigeon post. The seven churches were all in the mediterranean...as that is how far the gospel had reached at the time John was writing from the Isle of Patmos.

I think those in those churches would have understood all the specific references that we living centuries in another time, place and language have no idea about.

Though I am certain that the underlying message is universal and for all time, but it also would have been like those 'Mission Impossible letters', though instead of burning after reading..this was only for church believers to read and understand and keep for their eyes only. Because the time is at hand...

If you were belonging to any of those seven churches... Ephesus, Symrna, Pergamos, Thyatria, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodecia you would definitely have known what the angel was saying and repented pretty quick. Plus you would have had an idea of what the rest of the letter was saying too when Jesus was saying he was going to come quickly.
 
Nowadays our weekly church bulletins are not nearly so dramatic.

When I read them, they are usually lists of 'this is who we are praying for this week' and their ailments. Or it's an announcement for a potluck or something.
If there is something to repent of, its perhaps parking in the church carpark outside of church hours. And there usually isn't a 'buy and sell' part to it because that does already happen in the church carpark saturday carboot sale. But there is always a bank account number to deposit your donations to.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
If you were belonging to any of those seven churches... Ephesus, Symrna, Pergamos, Thyatria, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodecia you would definitely have known what the angel was saying and repented pretty quick.
It would be hard to put myself in their shoes. Apparently, their repentance was not long lasting as those churches eventually fell to Islam.

Plus you would have had an idea of what the rest of the letter was saying too when Jesus was saying he was going to come quickly.
❓ dunno about that either. How do you know that 'I come quickly' wasn't taken to mean suddenly, unexpected, in the twinkling of an eye?
 
Nowadays our weekly church bulletins are not nearly so dramatic.

When I read them, they are usually lists of 'this is who we are praying for this week' and their ailments. Or it's an announcement for a potluck or something.
If there is something to repent of, its perhaps parking in the church carpark outside of church hours. And there usually isn't a 'buy and sell' part to it because that does already happen in the church carpark saturday carboot sale. But there is always a bank account number to deposit your donations to.

I wonder why you seem to have such a "negative" outlook on the church?????
 
It would be hard to put myself in their shoes. Apparently, their repentance was not long lasting as those churches eventually fell to Islam.


❓ dunno about that either. How do you know that 'I come quickly' wasn't taken to mean suddenly, unexpected, in the twinkling of an eye?
well they wouldn't have missed it unless they hadn't repented right?
 
In those days were letters sent by hand or was it pigeon post. The seven churches were all in the mediterranean...as that is how far the gospel had reached at the time John was writing from the Isle of Patmos.

I think those in those churches would have understood all the specific references that we living centuries in another time, place and language have no idea about.

Though I am certain that the underlying message is universal and for all time, but it also would have been like those 'Mission Impossible letters', though instead of burning after reading..this was only for church believers to read and understand and keep for their eyes only. Because the time is at hand...

If you were belonging to any of those seven churches... Ephesus, Symrna, Pergamos, Thyatria, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodecia you would definitely have known what the angel was saying and repented pretty quick. Plus you would have had an idea of what the rest of the letter was saying too when Jesus was saying he was going to come quickly.

Lanolin.....with all due respect to you, since you have a BA and a Masters degree, you make many comments that are very hard to grasp. At least by me.

You said..........
"I think those in those churches would have understood all the specific references that we living centuries in another time, place and language have no idea about."

I think it is just the opposite.

Since John what taken by the Holy Spirit to the far future and then told to write what he saw......How would anyone in the 1st century know what he was saying??????

In Revelation 1:19 John was told.....
“Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.”

Revelation 4 ......
“After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

Then you said......
" Plus you would have had an idea of what the rest of the letter was saying too when Jesus was saying he was going to come quickly."

The phrase "I will come quickly" is in Rev. 22:12.....
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

"quickly" is from a Greek word that more accurately has more to do with how Jesus is coming than when. His return will be sudden and unpredictable.
 
missed what? the 2nd Coming? I guess I'm not following your train of thought.
sure, wasn't the time 'at hand'?

Unless you think they all missed out on Jesus coming. Maybe they didn't repent after all. Or Jesus just didn't come cos they didn't repent.

I mean then for what purpose was John writing this rather urgent letter then. For people living thousands of years later who'd never even been to Ephesus etc?
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
sure, wasn't the time 'at hand'?
I take that as being 'imminent', i.e. it could happen at any time. (still can).
Unless you think they all missed out on Jesus coming. Maybe they didn't repent after all. Or Jesus just didn't come cos they didn't repent.
Not being watchful was only one reason to repent but Jesus named a few others. Besides Jesus coming is not contingent on our repenting, as a matter of fact, I believe there will have been a great slide into apostasy by Christendom before His Coming.
I mean then for what purpose was John writing this rather urgent letter then. For people living thousands of years later who'd never even been to Ephesus etc?
I believe the purpose is spelled out in the opening...

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
 
missed what? the 2nd Coming? I guess I'm not following your train of thought.

Amen brother. Put me right there with you.

Lanolin has me on "Ignore" but her question of Why there is the Revelation is actuallu simple.....

On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.


This is what John teaches in Revelation 1:4-18. It is a foundational doctrine of the Christian church. It is the message that the Apostles took everywhere in the book of Acts. It is the ultimate apologetic. Jesus is alive.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Amen brother. Put me right there with you.

Lanolin has me on "Ignore" but her question of Why there is the Revelation is actuallu simple.....

On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.


This is what John teaches in Revelation 1:4-18. It is a foundational doctrine of the Christian church. It is the message that the Apostles took everywhere in the book of Acts. It is the ultimate apologetic. Jesus is alive.
Sounds like a section of the Nicene Creed…

…For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end…
 
I take that as being 'imminent', i.e. it could happen at any time. (still can).

Not being watchful was only one reason to repent but Jesus named a few others. Besides Jesus coming is not contingent on our repenting, as a matter of fact, I believe there will have been a great slide into apostasy by Christendom before His Coming.

I believe the purpose is spelled out in the opening...

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
huh, not being watchful?? Where did you get THAT from.
Jesus pretty much told the churches they had to repent of specific things, not just sit around and wait for him!

If they didn't repent, they were going to miss him.
Just like the foolish virgins in the parable missed out on the bridegroom and were locked out. It wasn't just that they didn't stay up and wait, it was because they actually had NO oil and therefore no light in them.
 
Anyone would think to be a christian these days all you have to do now is stay home and watch tv and wait for Jesus.
Um no. Jesus told Sardis to watch, maybe cos they were dying, or ready to die but all the other churches he told specific things.

Also he said several times he would come quickly. Does this mean he'll just appear instantly or was he saying I am coming very soon. Why would He lie to those churches.
 
Last edited:
sure, wasn't the time 'at hand'?

Unless you think they all missed out on Jesus coming. Maybe they didn't repent after all. Or Jesus just didn't come cos they didn't repent.

I mean then for what purpose was John writing this rather urgent letter then. For people living thousands of years later who'd never even been to Ephesus etc?

It is not John's revelation. It is the Revelation of Jesus Christ....WHY you ask?
Anyone would think to be a christian these days all you have to do now is stay home and watch tv and wait for Jesus.
Um no. Jesus told Sardis to watch, maybe cos they were dying, or ready to die but all the other churches he told specific things.

Also he said several times he would come quickly. Does this mean he'll just appear instantly or was he saying I am coming very soon. Why would He lie to those churches.

Since Lanolin has me on her "Ignore" option I will not take the time to respond to her post.

I would love to help her in understanding but since she dosent read it there is no reason to do so.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
If they didn't repent, they were going to miss him.
Just like the foolish virgins in the parable missed out on the bridegroom and were locked out. It wasn't just that they didn't stay up and wait, it was because they actually had NO oil and therefore no light in them.
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about regenerated Christians, not those lacking the Holy Spirit.
 
Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about regenerated Christians, not those lacking the Holy Spirit.
Well there were five wise and five foolish virgins.
Of course the five wise ones did not miss out and had light to see by. The five foolish ones could have filled their lamps with oil but they just didn't prepare. They were all waiting for the bridegroom.
 

crossnote

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Well there were five wise and five foolish virgins.
Of course the five wise ones did not miss out and had light to see by. The five foolish ones could have filled their lamps with oil but they just didn't prepare. They were all waiting for the bridegroom.
Right, sounds like those lacking oil, were lacking the Holy Spirit and thus were not regenerated.
 
Right, sounds like those lacking oil, were lacking the Holy Spirit and thus were not regenerated.

So then...........Getting back to the spirit if the thread =

What’s the meaning of receiving mark of the beast and of not being able to buy or sell?​

In Revelation 14 we see that this mark is associated with worshiping the beast, and it ultimately amounts to an eternal death sentence for all who receive it.

That is the meaning!!!!!

Rev 14:9-11 ...........
"Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11“And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

It should be understood that most of the whole world will follow after and worship the beast (Rev 13:3-4).
These people will be deceived into thinking that Antichrist is their savior. For them, receiving the mark will be an opportunity to openly display their devotion toward him, as well as to distinguish themselves from Antichrist’s hated enemies.

In addition, the False Prophet will decree that only people who have the mark will be able to buy and sell (Rev 13:17). I believe that most of Antichrist’s devoted worshipers would gladly receive his mark even without this economic incentive. The restriction on buying and selling will most likely be a device to expose Christians who do not want to receive the mark. This tactic will compel Christians to resort to dangerous measures just for survival.

No matter what the Mark is.......it can not be instituted or used until the Anti-Christ is revealed.
 
Top