what does Christmas mean to you

Census taking is a big deal in nz it happens every 4 or 5 years.

The census takers have to give out forms to every household and wherever you are on that ONE night you have to fill one out. Because Mary and Joseph were going to Bethelehem to be there on the census then we DO know exactly when Jesus was born because hello, that birth would have been counted on the census!!

Although, come to think of it, did the census count unborn children? I can't remember if there was a question about that in the recent NZ census. but I do know it asked if you were male or female and what ethnicity you are. I always have a hard time filling that one out and never tick the boxes, and I hate being in the category of OTHER.
 
Joseph and Mary would also need to have in those days a birth certificate for Jesus. They would have gone to the temple to get that while offering their sacrifice, which was two turtle doves since they couldn't afford to offer a firstborn lamb. Then at 8 days he would have had to be circumcised.

All the while Mary would be nursing her child by breast feeding, changing his swaddling cloths (nappies) and making sure he slept. Did they stay in the stable after he was born or did a room open up in Bethlehem? Did Joseph's own family come to see Jesus or did they shun him? How did they hear about the edict that King Herod was going to kill Jesus and all newborns under 2, and how? That's what I'd like to know. Did anyone else know, aside from the shepherds that they were there or were they tipped off.

Where in Egypt did they find refuge and for how long?
 
Lanolin said:
Census taking is a big deal in nz it happens every 4 or 5 years.

The census takers have to give out forms to every household and wherever you are on that ONE night you have to fill one out. Because Mary and Joseph were going to Bethelehem to be there on the census then we DO know exactly when Jesus was born because hello, that birth would have been counted on the census!!

Although, come to think of it, did the census count unborn children? I can't remember if there was a question about that in the recent NZ census. but I do know it asked if you were male or female and what ethnicity you are. I always have a hard time filling that one out and never tick the boxes, and I hate being in the category of OTHER.
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Hey Lanolin;

The census was primarily taken for tax purposes. That is a great question and I hope this helps, sister.
 
We know Jesus first words were 'Abba' (father) but does anyone remember what their own first words or their children's first words. My mum would have said mine were 'mama' and my dad would have said 'daddy' of course so maybe it depends on who's listening!
 
Nobody likes filling out the census.
Nobody likes paying tax, esp if the govt they voted in isn't going to spend those tax dollars on them but just enrich themselves.

We see it when politicians who are meant to be public servants boast about what a rich lifestyle only they have. When poltiicans make the census, they then calculate how much money they will get from it, and thats why they ask inane questions like 'what is your income'
 
Lanolin said:
Did they stay in the stable after he was born or did a room open up in Bethlehem? Did Joseph's own family come to see Jesus or did they shun him? How did they hear about the edict that King Herod was going to kill Jesus and all newborns under 2, and how? That's what I'd like to know. Did anyone else know, aside from the shepherds that they were there or were they tipped off.
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The bible tells us that the wise men found Jesus in the house (This suggests that family did let them in). An angel warned Joseph that they were in danger and to go to Egypt (They left that night). We are not told much about their time in Egypt, but we do know that they were back in Israel by the time Jesus was 12.
 
Lanolin said:
Joseph and Mary would also need to have in those days a birth certificate for Jesus. They would have gone to the temple to get that while offering their sacrifice, which was two turtle doves since they couldn't afford to offer a firstborn lamb. Then at 8 days he would have had to be circumcised.

All the while Mary would be nursing her child by breast feeding, changing his swaddling cloths (nappies) and making sure he slept. Did they stay in the stable after he was born or did a room open up in Bethlehem? Did Joseph's own family come to see Jesus or did they shun him? How did they hear about the edict that King Herod was going to kill Jesus and all newborns under 2, and how? That's what I'd like to know. Did anyone else know, aside from the shepherds that they were there or were they tipped off.

Where in Egypt did they find refuge and for how long?
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The BOOK is better than the movie. Read the BOOK!
 
Dave F. said:
The bible tells us that the wise men found Jesus in the house (This suggests that family did let them in). An angel warned Joseph that they were in danger and to go to Egypt (They left that night). We are not told much about their time in Egypt, but we do know that they were back in Israel by the time Jesus was 12.
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All the Christmas cards we seen and Nativity scenes show the wise men at the birth, BUT that could not have happened.

Assuming the star first appeared on the night Jesus was born, it would have taken considerable time for the magi to organize a caravan and travel to Jerusalem from the East, probably Persia or Susa. They would have crossed the mountains from Persia into Iraq, followed the Euphrates River north, up into Syria, and then through Lebanon to Israel. That would be about 1200 miles, over two months of travel time, with camels traveling twenty miles a day. Plus, after seeing the star, the Magi had to figure out what it meant, which could have taken weeks or months of research. And then, they needed to organize their travel, plus the actual travel time. So, we’re looking at anywhere from three months to maybe a year or more.

So, the earliest the wise men could have come was probably about six months after Jesus’ birth.

What’s the latest?

Maybe 2 years???? Why else did Herod have male babies UNDER two years old killed?
 
Major said:
All the Christmas cards we seen and Nativity scenes show the wise men at the birth, BUT that could not have happened.

Assuming the star first appeared on the night Jesus was born, it would have taken considerable time for the magi to organize a caravan and travel to Jerusalem from the East, probably Persia or Susa. They would have crossed the mountains from Persia into Iraq, followed the Euphrates River north, up into Syria, and then through Lebanon to Israel. That would be about 1200 miles, over two months of travel time, with camels traveling twenty miles a day. Plus, after seeing the star, the Magi had to figure out what it meant, which could have taken weeks or months of research. And then, they needed to organize their travel, plus the actual travel time. So, we’re looking at anywhere from three months to maybe a year or more.

So, the earliest the wise men could have come was probably about six months after Jesus’ birth.

What’s the latest?

Maybe 2 years???? Why else did Herod have male babies UNDER two years old killed?
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how many wise men was there ? o shoot i forgot im on ignore lol
 
Dave F. said:
The bible tells us that the wise men found Jesus in the house (This suggests that family did let them in). An angel warned Joseph that they were in danger and to go to Egypt (They left that night). We are not told much about their time in Egypt, but we do know that they were back in Israel by the time Jesus was 12.
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Imagine being told you have to have your baby in the garage. But then maybe Mary was already in labour and there was just no time to get a room ready!

Joseph's relatives must have been pretty mean as no mention is made of them at all, while Mary's cousin Elizabeth was kind. Were Jesus grandparents even present, or had they died by the time he was born. Or did they have some relatives still living in Egypt?
 
Lanolin said:
Imagine being told you have to have your baby in the garage. But then maybe Mary was already in labour and there was just no time to get a room ready!

Joseph's relatives must have been pretty mean as no mention is made of them at all, while Mary's cousin Elizabeth was kind. Were Jesus grandparents even present, or had they died by the time he was born. Or did they have some relatives still living in Egypt?
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As Major mentions above, the wise men were not there on the night Jesus was born. Likewise it was well after his birth that the angel told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. The bible does not tell us about Joseph's parents whereabouts on that special night.
 
Dave F. said:
We are not told how many, people have assumed 3 because of the gifts mentioned. I do not ignore you.
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not you... the Wisemen was a large caravan there are many parts to the Christmas story we dont know.. we dont know whose house he was moved in to. . after the age 12 Joseph drops out of the writings. this entire event had been prophesied for years . in genius the seed of the woman . how do anyone think Herrod knew the shepherds had a good idea the o.t prophets foretold of this for years . the important things he was born to redeem us from the curse of the law.

1. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
2.
Isaiah 7:14

“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”
3.
Micah 5:2

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

4
Hosea 11:1

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”
 
Dave F. said:
We are not told how many, people have assumed 3 because of the gifts mentioned. I do not ignore you.
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Good point. We actually do not know. The 3 wise men is an assumption because of the 3 gifts given to the baby Jesus.
A caravan would undoubtably have a lot more than 3.....probably 100 or more.

Eastern tradition says 12. And despite the familiar lyrics of the Christmas carol "We Three Kings," no biblical source depicts the three wise men as kings. They were most likely learned men, perhaps astrologers.

However many wise men there were, and however they got to Bethlehem, the Bible tells us they arrived just after the birth and found the baby Jesus in a manger, right?

Not quite. Matthew 2:11 states:
"And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him . . ."

The wise men came "into the house," not the stable, and they saw a "young child," not a newborn. This passage indicates that the wise men didn't arrive until quite some time after Jesus' birth, probably 2 years.
 
Dave F. said:
As Major mentions above, the wise men were not there on the night Jesus was born. Likewise it was well after his birth that the angel told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. The bible does not tell us about Joseph's parents whereabouts on that special night.
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I never said the wise men were there on the exact night Jesus was born..not sure where this misconception comes from

Obviously they came after but soon after because they went to Bethlehem where he was born, not Nazareth or Egypt.

Most mothers don't have strangers come visit them while they are in labour obvs! It was the SHEPHERDS who were there on the night not the wise men. The wise men would have come after because they heard that he was born, so he would have been several months old or under 2.

Do people mix up the stories?

When giving a baby shower in modern times, it seems its given before the birth. I don't really like that practise because its not guaranteed that a child is actually going to be born or even if the mother will survive. Baby showers should ideally be given on the first birthdays. Which is a year AFTER they are born, not their actual birthday....

In chinese culture, your are already counted as 1 on the day you are born lol. Maybe they are thinking its 9 months after your are conceived, so your life actually starts then, not from the moment of birth outside the womb?
 
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