What Does it Mean to Know God?

LearningToLetGo

LearningToLetGo

It's a hot day in the Pacific Northwest. I was sitting on a stool in my garage, eating ice cream and listening to the whirling of the lawn sprinklers. The garage felt nice compared to the heat of the day and I was reminded of the passage in Genesis (3:8) where the Lord was walking the Garden in the cool of the day. This got me to thinking about the Fall. Not Autumn but the Biblical Fall. Specifically this got me thinking about Original Sin, Satan, the third of the angels, Judas and other Biblical odds and ends.

Now, when I pray I usually sit quietly, but not always. Sometimes I dialog with God. I speak. He listens. Sometimes, every now and then, I get an intuition that I accept is his speaking to me. That happened today.

I noticed a pattern: Satan and the angels knew God to his face. They experienced God's presence and they rejected him. They rejected him to his face. For this they are condemned to Hell. (That's another thread so we'll leave it at that).

Adam likewise knew God to his face. Adam experienced God's presence and disobeyed him. For that Adam and all mankind inherited sin. Think of sin like part of our DNA. We're still dealing with that to this day. In many ways it defines us.

Judas knew Jesus to his face. Judas experienced Jesus' presence and betrayed him. For that Judas was condemned.

Okay, we all know this. What's my point? Well, as we can see, the above (Satan, angels, Adam, Judas) all experienced God. God was not an abstract concept to them. God was not an idol. How do we know God? Do we know him by reading about him, by talking about him? Or do we experience him?

Which brings me to my point: when we meet unbelievers, seekers or even believers weak in faith, how do they know God? Do they know him from our words? Do they know him from the words in the Bible? Yes, but what else? For if all we know of God are the words we use to describe him then we do not know him, for to know God is to experience him. And (this is important) if someone rejects God having only known the image of him in words, well, that image is an idol and they have never known God and they have therefore never rejected God.

It's a lot to sink in so let me use an analogy. Do you know chocolate? Of course. But what if you had only ever read about chocolate. What if you studied its chemical composition and sequenced its DNA and learned about how to grow it and harvest it -- but you never tasted it. Do you know chocolate? Or another analogy: What did you know of sex while you were still a virgin? I am guessing a lot. But until that first moment when you lay with your husband or wife you never knew sex. You only knew the idea of sex, and ideas are just idols by another name.

Let's discuss!

Jason
 
This is one of those questions where I’m stumped for words.

But off my head I would say, to know God for me is about being aware of myself, this life and others and connecting, communicating and acting as well as I can when I can with what I have in the moment. In truth if I can. It’s all pretty wired, cos anything can happen. I remember lying through my back teeth once to someone but that’s because I felt very scared if I told the truth. Some guys in a van asked me to come over to the car and I lied and said I was in a rush. That’s knowing God for me in a strange moment that caught me off guard.

Pretty tough question, one that made me think…
 
LearningToLetGo said:
It's a hot day in the Pacific Northwest. I was sitting on a stool in my garage, eating ice cream and listening to the whirling of the lawn sprinklers. The garage felt nice compared to the heat of the day and I was reminded of the passage in Genesis (3:8) where the Lord was walking the Garden in the cool of the day. This got me to thinking about the Fall. Not Autumn but the Biblical Fall. Specifically this got me thinking about Original Sin, Satan, the third of the angels, Judas and other Biblical odds and ends.

Now, when I pray I usually sit quietly, but not always. Sometimes I dialog with God. I speak. He listens. Sometimes, every now and then, I get an intuition that I accept is his speaking to me. That happened today.

I noticed a pattern: Satan and the angels knew God to his face. They experienced God's presence and they rejected him. They rejected him to his face. For this they are condemned to Hell. (That's another thread so we'll leave it at that).

Adam likewise knew God to his face. Adam experienced God's presence and disobeyed him. For that Adam and all mankind inherited sin. Think of sin like part of our DNA. We're still dealing with that to this day. In many ways it defines us.

Judas knew Jesus to his face. Judas experienced Jesus' presence and betrayed him. For that Judas was condemned.

Okay, we all know this. What's my point? Well, as we can see, the above (Satan, angels, Adam, Judas) all experienced God. God was not an abstract concept to them. God was not an idol. How do we know God? Do we know him by reading about him, by talking about him? Or do we experience him?

Which brings me to my point: when we meet unbelievers, seekers or even believers weak in faith, how do they know God? Do they know him from our words? Do they know him from the words in the Bible? Yes, but what else? For if all we know of God are the words we use to describe him then we do not know him, for to know God is to experience him. And (this is important) if someone rejects God having only known the image of him in words, well, that image is an idol and they have never known God and they have therefore never rejected God.

It's a lot to sink in so let me use an analogy. Do you know chocolate? Of course. But what if you had only ever read about chocolate. What if you studied its chemical composition and sequenced its DNA and learned about how to grow it and harvest it -- but you never tasted it. Do you know chocolate? Or another analogy: What did you know of sex while you were still a virgin? I am guessing a lot. But until that first moment when you lay with your husband or wife you never knew sex. You only knew the idea of sex, and ideas are just idols by another name.

Let's discuss!

Jason
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All good questions. Within all of us there exists a strong desire to be known and to know others.

First of all, I will say that to know God, one has to know the Lord Jesus Christ.

Secondly, I would say that the key to truly knowing God is found in what God has revealed about Himself in the Bible.

You see, God wants to be known.

Acts 17:27........
"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.

How long was it before God made His presence known to Adam....days????

The problem is our sinfulness. We are all sinful and beginning with Adam and Eve we seperated ourselves from God and we fall short of the standard of holiness required to commune with God. We have “exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles” (Romans 1:23). So, in order to truly know God, we must first acknowledge our sin and repent of it.

In turning from sin, we must turn to Jesus Christ, the only Savior from sin.

Jesus revealed to us who God is, so in knowing God we must look to Jesus:.

John 14:9-10; cf. John 17:6............
“Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. . . . Believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me” .

Listen brother.....Every work that Jesus did, every word Jesus said, was in obedience to the Father in heaven.
To know God, we must know Jesus.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
Agreed, 100%. But... what does "know" mean?
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It can mean many things. In the CONTEXT of our discussion, IMHO it indicates a close, warm, and even passionate intimacy combined with head knowledge that produces an "edge" in a person's life.

"To know " has been used as an euphemism for sexual intercourse and is probably the most common use but it is not what we are talking about here.
 
Major said:
It can mean many things. In the CONTEXT of our discussion, IMHO it indicates a close, warm, and even passionate intimacy combined with head knowledge that produces an "edge" in a person's life.
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This is very close to what I am thinking.

Let me add some context here: I was raised atheist. We never attended church and there was no bible in my home. One evening, as an adult, I had a vision of an infant in a bassinet. Emanating from and surrounding the child was a soft, golden light. I stood transfixed, not knowing what to think. Slowly the light approached me with an almost prehensile quality. It reached out and touched me. When that happened, my mind stopped. My thoughts ground to a halt and I was held in this tender knowing. This knowing reached into me and saw all my little lies, all my fears, all my secret cowardice and it dumped this knowledge onto the floor in front of me. Internally I screamed to make excuse but I could not since this light knew my thoughts before I did and vetoed them.

Knowing I could do nothing else, I dropped to my knees, tears streaming down my face and I cried out in sorrow. I begged the light to forgive me. It held me for several seconds more then withdrew. When I returned to my senses I was crying like a baby, tears streaming down my face. And here's the kicker: All of this happened before I read the New Testament.

From that moment I knew Jesus. Scripture has served to reinforce this knowledge but in no way substitute for it. That is how I define "know".

Edit: Oh, and this also plays back into Genesis 3 when the serpent says on the day Adam eats of the tree he will know good and evil. This ain't no intellectual knowing. This is experiential knowing.
 
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Hello LearningToLetGo;

What Does it Mean to Know God and what does "know" mean?

My wife and I read the Bible together daily and we both agree this is one way of "knowing who God is" and believe "He speaks to us through the Bible." These are the steps we take to understand what it means to know God.

Since we cannot physically see or hear God's audible makes it tough to know Him so we choose to believe what we cannot see. Since we cannot know God on His level we choose to keep it simple allowing us to know Him from the capacity we're able to.

What does "know" mean? By developing a relationship, common ground, spending time with, helps me to know God or people who cross my path by all means. But I will never truly know God, my wife or people whom I meet because it's a continuous growing process. This is good!

I'm encouraged by what you share in your thread that you too, are defining "know" through God, Jesus and others close to you in your life.

God bless you, Jason, and your family.







 
LearningToLetGo said:
This is very close to what I am thinking.

Let me add some context here: I was raised atheist. We never attended church and there was no bible in my home. One evening, as an adult, I had a vision of an infant in a bassinet. Emanating from and surrounding the child was a soft, golden light. I stood transfixed, not knowing what to think. Slowly the light approached me with an almost prehensile quality. It reached out and touched me. When that happened, my mind stopped. My thoughts ground to a halt and I was held in this tender knowing. This knowing reached into me and saw all my little lies, all my fears, all my secret cowardice and it dumped this knowledge onto the floor in front of me. Internally I screamed to make excuse but I could not since this light knew my thoughts before I did and vetoed them.

Knowing I could do nothing else, I dropped to my knees, tears streaming down my face and I cried out in sorrow. I begged the light to forgive me. It held me for several seconds more then withdrew. When I returned to my senses I was crying like a baby, tears streaming down my face. And here's the kicker: All of this happened before I read the New Testament.

From that moment I knew Jesus. Scripture has served to reinforce this knowledge but in no way substitute for it. That is how I define "know".

Edit: Oh, and this also plays back into Genesis 3 when the serpent says on the day Adam eats of the tree he will know good and evil. This ain't no intellectual knowing. This is experiential knowing.
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I understand and believe you. The Holy Spirit does some incredible things.

Since the Holy Spirit is working to make us like Jesus, he convicts us of our sin.

Sin is something that will always offend God and hold us back. If we have sin, which we do, He will bring those sins to our attention.

I will echo this statement - “conviction is your best friend”. If we stop feeling conviction, then we have bigger problems. As John 16:8 says, “And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.”

The conviction also comes before the sin happens. The Holy Spirit will start to tap on your heart once temptation comes.

It is our responsibility to respond to that conviction and from what you posted, that is what you did.
 
I don't want to derail my own thread, but I gotta add this:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18-20 AKJV)

The way I read this, Jesus gives us a second chance.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I don't want to derail my own thread, but I gotta add this:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18-20 AKJV)

The way I read this, Jesus gives us a second chance.
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A second chance? That goes hand in hand with the topic of this thread, so if you would, please explain what you mean by "second chance."

Thank you.

MM
 
LearningToLetGo said:
This is very close to what I am thinking.

Let me add some context here: I was raised atheist. We never attended church and there was no bible in my home. One evening, as an adult, I had a vision of an infant in a bassinet. Emanating from and surrounding the child was a soft, golden light. I stood transfixed, not knowing what to think. Slowly the light approached me with an almost prehensile quality. It reached out and touched me. When that happened, my mind stopped. My thoughts ground to a halt and I was held in this tender knowing. This knowing reached into me and saw all my little lies, all my fears, all my secret cowardice and it dumped this knowledge onto the floor in front of me. Internally I screamed to make excuse but I could not since this light knew my thoughts before I did and vetoed them.

Knowing I could do nothing else, I dropped to my knees, tears streaming down my face and I cried out in sorrow. I begged the light to forgive me. It held me for several seconds more then withdrew. When I returned to my senses I was crying like a baby, tears streaming down my face. And here's the kicker: All of this happened before I read the New Testament.

From that moment I knew Jesus. Scripture has served to reinforce this knowledge but in no way substitute for it. That is how I define "know".

Edit: Oh, and this also plays back into Genesis 3 when the serpent says on the day Adam eats of the tree he will know good and evil. This ain't no intellectual knowing. This is experiential knowing.
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That's an interesting experience. Something we don't know nor can explain is all the mechanisms by which the Lord makes the choice to speak to and reach out to individuals. We know the Lord doesn't force anyone into Heaven, contrary to what some believe out there. So, many of who are curious are left wondering what criteria the Lord looks for within each individual as to if and when they are ready for His active involvement in that individual being drawn that much more closely to Him.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
A second chance? That goes hand in hand with the topic of this thread, so if you would, please explain what you mean by "second chance."

Thank you.

MM
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1 Peter 3:18-20 describes Jesus preaching to the lost souls in 'prison'. I think this means he descends into Hell to tell the lost souls the good news of his death and resurrection and offers them one last chance. I see this as a perpetual act, applying equally to both past and future. As such, those who remain in Hell do so with full knowledge of who and what Jesus is. They reject him to his face, so to speak.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
1 Peter 3:18-20 describes Jesus preaching to the lost souls in 'prison'. I think this means he descends into Hell to tell the lost souls the good news of his death and resurrection and offers them one last chance. I see this as a perpetual act, applying equally to both past and future. As such, those who remain in Hell do so with full knowledge of who and what Jesus is. They reject him to his face, so to speak.
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I've heard He is declaring His victory, confirming their condemnation. Either way, it is not perpetual.

Hebrews 9:25-27 ESV
Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, [26] for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
 
LearningToLetGo said:
1 Peter 3:18-20 describes Jesus preaching to the lost souls in 'prison'. I think this means he descends into Hell to tell the lost souls the good news of his death and resurrection and offers them one last chance. I see this as a perpetual act, applying equally to both past and future. As such, those who remain in Hell do so with full knowledge of who and what Jesus is. They reject him to his face, so to speak.
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Not so brother.

Thise in Sheol at the time of 1 Peter 3 did not have a second chance at all! There was NO offer made to them so as to be saved from Sheol as far as the Scriptures actually say.

Those spirits of the people in Sheol to whom Noah had preached were now and had been in prison. They were in SHEOL. They were waiting for judgment because they were lost and they are still there today, still lost waiting on the Great White Throne Judgment.

Christ preached THROUGH MOAH for 120 years ...."when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah".

I believe crossnote in post #17 has it correct!
 
LearningToLetGo said:
1 Peter 3:18-20 describes Jesus preaching to the lost souls in 'prison'. I think this means he descends into Hell to tell the lost souls the good news of his death and resurrection and offers them one last chance. I see this as a perpetual act, applying equally to both past and future. As such, those who remain in Hell do so with full knowledge of who and what Jesus is. They reject him to his face, so to speak.
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Actually, no. The captives He preached to and led free are the Old Testament saints who were held captive in Abraham's Bosom until the completion of the cross and redemption of mankind through the shed Blood of Christ Jesus. Yes, He did descend to Sheol, which has an impassible gulf through it, with torment on one side, and Abraham's Bosom on the other. The captives could not yet enter into Heaven until their sins were truly atoned for by the only Blood that could do what, which is the Blood of Christ.

To say that those who died in denial of that Blood, and thus keeping their sins upon themselves, they were judged at the point of their death, as is the case for all mankind:

Hebsrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Does that make sense?

Mormonism teaches of there allegedly being a second chance after death, and that is a false doctrine.

MM
 
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