What faith is and what it is not.

geralduk said: ↑
I do no mind so much if people misunderstand me or even think I am wrong .I am not infallible. though some foolishly claim they are .
But if you disagree with me as to that "high calling" if not for your sake but for any others reading can you explain why you do not agree?

Hello @geralduk,

You said previously, concerning ‘The Bride’: that, (quote) ‘each and every one is CALLED to that ‘high calling’.’, and I told you that I disagreed.

Rather than give my reasons for disagreeing here, may I simply direct those who are interested to the thread with this subject heading, in which you, I , and others have spoken concerning this :-

http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-bride-of-christ.43277/

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
The second thing is.......You said God only told us to forgive our brother and did not say to forgive our neighbor.
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't properly say this right. What I meant was that Jesus told the disciples to forgive their brother, even 7 times in one day. The disciples couldn't even handle forgiving their brother that many times, much less a neighbor. Shouldn't it be easier to forgive a brother or sister?
One question I have for you is how do you see verses 6 thru 10, as to what point Jesus is making? How does just doing your duty or, as it seems, knowing your place, fit into answering the request of the disciples to increase their faith?
 

geralduk

Inactive
Hello @geralduk,

You said previously, concerning ‘The Bride’: that, (quote) ‘each and every one is CALLED to that ‘high calling’.’, and I told you that I disagreed.

Rather than give my reasons for disagreeing here, may I simply direct those who are interested to the thread with this subject heading, in which you, I , and others have spoken concerning this :-

http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-bride-of-christ.43277/

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Fair enough and easier to keep the different subjects clearly in focus.
In Christ
gerald
 

geralduk

Inactive
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't properly say this right. What I meant was that Jesus told the disciples to forgive their brother, even 7 times in one day. The disciples couldn't even handle forgiving their brother that many times, much less a neighbor. Shouldn't it be easier to forgive a brother or sister?
One question I have for you is how do you see verses 6 thru 10, as to what point Jesus is making? How does just doing your duty or, as it seems, knowing your place, fit into answering the request of the disciples to increase their faith?

Just a thought:
What is a neighbor? if not a person of another household and of another father .
What then is a brother? If not oen of the same household and of the same father .
If then God forgave us who were as it were His neighbors .
How much for such little offences in comparison should we forgive other be they neighbor or brother.,

in Christ
gerald
 
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't properly say this right. What I meant was that Jesus told the disciples to forgive their brother, even 7 times in one day. The disciples couldn't even handle forgiving their brother that many times, much less a neighbor. Shouldn't it be easier to forgive a brother or sister?
One question I have for you is how do you see verses 6 thru 10, as to what point Jesus is making? How does just doing your duty or, as it seems, knowing your place, fit into answering the request of the disciples to increase their faith?

Lets back up to what Jesus was telling them about the mustard seed compared to wanting more faith.

The mustard seed is the smallest seed but it grows up big.
How does it grow up big ? It gets watered and cared for such as keeping the weeds out and so forth.

It is the same for our Faith - we must keep it watered which means with the word of God.
We are also told to keep from perverted speach. Most folks only go as far as thinking this means no bad words or foul talk and so forth and this is correct but incomplete.

Scripture teaches us that perverted words would be words oposed to His written word or words that say the opposite. These words are always followed by some kind of action and if these actions are opposite of what Gods word says to do then you are planting weeds and or digging up your seed ( faith )

To figure this all out we have to always go back to the base or His written word.
We are told we must BELIEVE we have when we pray. We are told we have what we say.
We are told we must believe and see in our heart...........these scriptures have been given over and over already in this thread............

What is this scriptural heart ? It is your spirit.
The heart of a cellery stock is it's core and our core being is our spirit being.
The SEEING and the BELIEVING must be deep within our core or heart or another words spirit. So how can we get to this place where we see something in our core or heart or spirit being ?

Faith Comes by Hearing and hearing the Word Of God.
So we have to dig into the written word of God and allow it to fill our heart or core or spirit.
Out of the HEART the mouth does SPEAK. ( why is this so important )

You can not go around speaking words CONTRARY to Gods Word and BUILD UP YOUR FAITH.
WORDS contrary to His words work against your faith and works against your victory and chokes out the seed you planted ( Faith ) Not to mention these words allow the enemy the devil right to interfere in the situation and your life and victory. The devil needs your words and this is why he is constantly bombarding you with stinken thinken or thoughts against Gods word.

So we must speak Gods word over the situation at all times no matter what it looks like or what others say. When Jesus was tempted by satan and when Jesus as a man was at His lowest point. Think about it - satan comes at Jesus after the 40 days of fasting. he did not wait until Jesus ate and drank and built up His strength again.

Jesus replied unto satan - IT IS WRITTEN. Those three words are a very powerful way to start any rebuke or resisting of the devil. The Next and most powerful would be IN THE NAME OF JESUS. satan has to bow unto the name of Jesus. he has no choice - oh he will bluff his way around it, and at this point is when YOU MUST speak Gods word and let Gods word work.
(( You have to know that you know - beleive with out a shadow of doubt - nothing moves you off of Gods written word )) devil it is written that if I resist you then you must flee.

he will bluff you and continue on at you BUT how is it we can truly scripturally resist the devil ? Gods word and knowing it is so. How do we get this knowing ? By Faith and how do we get this type of faith that wont be moved or shaken by satans ways ?

Getting it into the core being or the spirit being. Speaking only what His word says about things and when satan hits you with the yea buts - you simply tell him to get his yea butt out of your way - For it is written resist the devil and he will flee so you are here by notified I am resisting you and you will flee and then you go about your bussiness.

Sorry getting a little off tract here but it all works together.
Love and Forgiveness must be walked out.........Not loving as God commands us too and not forgiving as God commands us too will limit your faith. It weakens it. It opens the door for the enemy to begin to steal , kill and destroy for the words sake. Oh yea - un-forgiveness will bind you up ( Spiritually ) more then 3 lbs of cheese will bind your body up in the natural.

With out Faith it is impossable to please God. Is this simply believing in God or Jesus as some would have you beleive ? No - Not at all. The faith that pleases God is Faith in His word and putting forth His word in your life and situations.

Meaning ........... Come boldly unto the throne room of grace. God is constantly looking for His word being put forth. We must USE HIS WORD and this means in our prayers - ( Bring His word with you when you pray ) Speak only His word over every situation no matter what it seems like or others say about it. Walk as if His word is final authority in your life and any given situation......Truth Being it is BUT FAR TOO MANY BRETHREN seem to crumble under the circumstances instead of STANDING ON HIS WIORD. After doing all you know to do..STAND.... stand strong un-movable on His word.

Again you can not do this with out a heart full of His word and faith and you cant get this with out first digging in His word DAILY AND PRAYING HIS WORD AND LIVING BY HIS EVERY WORD. Speaking His word. Resisting the devil and his WORDS.

Brother Big Moose I know you asked me about verses 6-10 .
If we can not get God kind of Faith and Love and Forgiveness deep with in our core beings our heart our spirit.............none of the rest even matters.

Faith is a LIFE STYLE to be live 24\7\365 and you can not do this until your core is Rock Solid full of Gods Word which BUILDS FAITH. This stuff that some teach about faith is sloppy and so incomplete that it is any wonder that they get any place in this life.

One last thing about SEED......it always grows down before it grows up.
So it is unto faith........or HIS WRITTEN WORD........It must be watered and cared for in order for it to take root ( grow down ) and then begin to sprout and grow up and produce the God Required Faith we need to Please God.

Gods word is SEED..........we are born again by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED - the EVER LIVING WORD OF GOD. So plant some seed and keep it watered with Faith and watch it grow and bring forth the desired results...Dont Plant Any Word Weeds or Action Weeds. ;)

Disclaimer...........the word YOU is used many times in this post.......YOU is USED as in general....any person.....ANY Born again Believer.......

In Jesus name I pray that GODS WORD would begin to take root and grow and produce mountain moving faith in all of us as we Keep It Watered and weeded. Amen
God Bless
Jim
 
Just a thought:
What is a neighbor? if not a person of another household and of another father .
What then is a brother? If not oen of the same household and of the same father .
If then God forgave us who were as it were His neighbors .
How much for such little offences in comparison should we forgive other be they neighbor or brother.,

in Christ
gerald
Not to mention FORGIVENESS and WALKING IN LOVE ( Gods Love ) is a COMMAND from God and it Pleases Him as well.
God Bless
Jim
 
Thank you for pointing this out. I didn't properly say this right. What I meant was that Jesus told the disciples to forgive their brother, even 7 times in one day. The disciples couldn't even handle forgiving their brother that many times, much less a neighbor. Shouldn't it be easier to forgive a brother or sister?
One question I have for you is how do you see verses 6 thru 10, as to what point Jesus is making? How does just doing your duty or, as it seems, knowing your place, fit into answering the request of the disciples to increase their faith?

In my thoughts it is easier for someone that is close to you to get under your skin, because the devil wants to disrupt the harmony in one's household, or if your talking about brothers and sisters in Christ....then the devil wants to disrupt the flow of the anointing, and the power in the anointing that many have together (dt 32:30... one can chase a thousand and two can put ten thousand to flight), so he tries harder to create a spirit of division or getting people to walk in offense that leads to unforgiveness and out of walking in Love.

Blessings
 
In my thoughts it is easier for someone that is close to you to get under your skin, because the devil wants to disrupt the harmony in one's household, or if your talking about brothers and sisters in Christ....then the devil wants to disrupt the flow of the anointing, and the power in the anointing that many have together (dt 32:30... one can chase a thousand and two can put ten thousand to flight), so he tries harder to create a spirit of division or getting people to walk in offense that leads to unforgiveness and out of walking in Love.

Blessings
James 3:17 also paints another good picture
KJ21
For where envy and strife are, there is confusion and every evil work.
ASV
For where jealousy and faction are, there is confusion and every vile deed.
AMP
For wherever there is jealousy (envy) and contention (rivalry and selfish ambition), there will also be confusion (unrest, disharmony, rebellion) and all sorts of evil and vile practices.
BRG
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
CEB
Wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there is disorder and everything that is evil.
CJB
For where there are jealousy and selfish ambition, there will be disharmony and every foul practice.
CEV
Whenever people are jealous or selfish, they cause trouble and do all sorts of cruel things.
DARBY
For where emulation and strife [are], there [is] disorder and every evil thing.
DLNT
For where jealousy and selfish-interest are, in-that-place there is disorder and every bad thing.
DRA
For where envying and contention is, there is inconstancy, and every evil work.
ERV
Where there is jealousy and selfishness, there will be confusion and every kind of evil.
ESV
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
ESVUK
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
EXB
Where ·jealousy [or envy] and ·selfishness [selfish ambition] are, there will be ·confusion [chaos; disorder] and every ·kind of evil [evil thing/practice].
GNV
For where envying and strife is, there is sedition, and all manner of evil works.
GW
Wherever there is jealousy and rivalry, there is disorder and every kind of evil.
GNT
Where there is jealousy and selfishness, there is also disorder and every kind of evil.
HCSB
For where envy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every kind of evil.
ICB
Where there is jealousy and selfishness, there will be confusion and every kind of evil.
ISV
For wherever jealousy and rivalry exist, there is disorder and every kind of evil.
PHILLIPS
Are there some wise and understanding men among you? Then your lives will be an example of the humility that is born of true wisdom. But if your heart is full of rivalry and bitter jealousy, then do not boast of your wisdom—don’t deny the truth that you must recognise in your inmost heart. You may acquire a certain superficial wisdom, but it does not come from God—it comes from this world, from your own lower nature, even from the devil. For wherever you find jealousy and rivalry you also find disharmony and all other kinds of evil.
JUB
For where there is envy and contention, there is confusion and every perverse work.
KJV
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
AKJV
For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
LEB
For where there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there is disorder and every evil practice.
TLB
For wherever there is jealousy or selfish ambition, there will be disorder and every other kind of evil.
MSG
Do you want to be counted wise, to build a reputation for wisdom? Here’s what you do: Live well, live wisely, live humbly. It’s the way you live, not the way you talk, that counts. Mean-spirited ambition isn’t wisdom. Boasting that you are wise isn’t wisdom. Twisting the truth to make yourselves sound wise isn’t wisdom. It’s the furthest thing from wisdom—it’s animal cunning, devilish conniving. Whenever you’re trying to look better than others or get the better of others, things fall apart and everyone ends up at the others’ throats.
MEV
For where there is envying and strife, there is confusion and every evil work.
MOUNCE
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there you will find disorder and every evil practice.
NOG
Wherever there is jealousy and rivalry, there is disorder and every kind of evil.
NABRE
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every foul practice.
NASB
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
NCV
Where jealousy and selfishness are, there will be confusion and every kind of evil.
NET
For where there is jealousy and selfishness, there is disorder and every evil practice.
NIRV
Are you jealous? Are you concerned only about getting ahead? Then your life will be a mess. You will be doing all kinds of evil things.
NIV
For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
NIVUK
For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
NKJV
For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.
NLV
Wherever you find jealousy and fighting, there will be trouble and every other kind of wrong-doing.
NLT
For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every kind.
NRSV
For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind.
NRSVA
For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind.
NRSVACE
For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind.
NRSVCE
For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind.
OJB
For where kina and anochiyut are, there is tohu vavohu (disorder, chaos) and every ra’ah.
RSV
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
RSVCE
For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.
VOICE
Any place where you find jealousy and selfish ambition, you will discover chaos and evil thriving under its rule.
WEB
For where jealousy and selfish ambition are, there is confusion and every evil deed.
WE
If people are jealous of others, their lives are not right. They do every kind of wrong thing to get what they want. They confuse and upset people.
WYC
For where is envy and strife, there is unsteadfastness and all depraved work [and all shrewd work].
YLT
for where zeal and rivalry [are], there is insurrection and every evil matter;
 
Lets back up to what Jesus was telling them about the mustard seed compared to wanting more faith.

The mustard seed is the smallest seed but it grows up big.
How does it grow up big ? It gets watered and cared for such as keeping the weeds out and so forth.

It is the same for our Faith - we must keep it watered which means with the word of God.

In the verse that Jesus speaks of the mustard seed it is not used as an example of faith. It used as 'light' sarcasm. Speaking of a mustard seed growing large is true according to science but with scripture it is adding to what is not there.

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.

Jim my friend read it over and over until it hits home ''if you have faith as small as a mustard seed' = if you have faith the size of a few grains of sand. Ie if you have ANY genuine faith you can move a mountain.

As Christians we have genuine faith in God' existence and because of the cross, His goodness. These two either exist or they do not. We cannot grow in faith of God's existence. We either believe we are liaising with God of the universe or we do not. Now when we believe we are liaising with God of the universe we believe He can do anything. We don't need to grow in faith that He can do anything.

I don't understand what you mean water our faith? What faith must we water? The only faith I can think of is in His goodness. We need to grow in faith in God's goodness. Is that what you are implying with regards to the mustard seed? Your post is really confusing. You are not specifying exactly what faith you are referring to.
 
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geralduk

Inactive
In the verse that Jesus speaks of the mustard seed it is not used as an example of faith. It used as 'light' sarcasm. Speaking of a mustard seed growing large is true according to science but with scripture it is adding to what is not there.

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.

Jim my friend read it over and over until it hits home ''if you have faith as small as a mustard seed' = if you have faith the size of a few grains of sand. Ie if you have ANY genuine faith you can move a mountain.

My only point is that we have genuine faith in God' existence and because of the cross, His goodness. These two either exist or they do not. We cannot grow in faith of God's existence. We either believe we are liaising with God of the universe or we do not. Now when we believe we are liaising with God of the universe we believe He can do anything. We don't need to grow in faith that He can do anything. Which is why the only prayer someone who has genuine belief in God needs to pray is '''may thy will be done''.

While you might surmise such a thing from such a statement .There are many other scriptures that say you faith in God is meant to grow as well as Examples of peoples lives to show that it can and did .
If then b y your argument a mans faith can move a mountain and its not your argument bu the Lords. Then I would say that even if your argument was true and applied to all . Then not many people excersize even what you say we/they have?
But a mustard seed is not = to a few grains of sand .It is indeed a very very very small seed and looks almost nothing at all a bit of fluff .
But our faith IS expected to grow.
You say our faith is by your reckoning complete and full grown the moment we believe etc.
Then what about Jesus being the author and the finisher of our faith?
If our faith in God come sby hearing and understandign the Word of God .Then as we grow in grace and the knowledge of God then so our faith in God should by the same measure grow as well.
Jesus spoke of "little faith" to a man who had just walked on water . Whos faith was in Christ .
But he spoke to another who had "great faith" who also had faith in Christ .
Abraham who is the father of us all and of the faithful. was only partial in his faith and obedience in the beginning later he was fearful but in the end he could sacrifice his son and count that God would raise him from the dead.
It is impossible to believe that he could have acted in such a faith at the beginning .
But as His understanding of God grew from "God almighty", God everlasting, God the most high, God the just judge and moral govener of the whole universe.... So too his faith grew.
In that Jesus used the seed of the mustard that is the smallest of all herbs that can grow into the greatest tree .He was actually teaching that if the faith was as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain think what is possible if it becomes a great tree!
That then highlights the faith of some as listed in Hebrews.
The faith of "little children" cannot be = to the faith of "young men" nor indeed of "ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning"


in Christ
gerald
 
While you might surmise such a thing from such a statement .There are many other scriptures that say you faith in God is meant to grow as well as Examples of peoples lives to show that it can and did .
If then b y your argument a mans faith can move a mountain and its not your argument bu the Lords. Then I would say that even if your argument was true and applied to all . Then not many people excersize even what you say we/they have?
But a mustard seed is not = to a few grains of sand .It is indeed a very very very small seed and looks almost nothing at all a bit of fluff .
But our faith IS expected to grow.

You say our faith is by your reckoning complete and full grown the moment we believe etc.
Then what about Jesus being the author and the finisher of our faith?
If our faith in God come sby hearing and understandign the Word of God .Then as we grow in grace and the knowledge of God then so our faith in God should by the same measure grow as well.
Jesus spoke of "little faith" to a man who had just walked on water . Whos faith was in Christ .
But he spoke to another who had "great faith" who also had faith in Christ .
Abraham who is the father of us all and of the faithful. was only partial in his faith and obedience in the beginning later he was fearful but in the end he could sacrifice his son and count that God would raise him from the dead.
It is impossible to believe that he could have acted in such a faith at the beginning .
But as His understanding of God grew from "God almighty", God everlasting, God the most high, God the just judge and moral govener of the whole universe.... So too his faith grew.
In that Jesus used the seed of the mustard that is the smallest of all herbs that can grow into the greatest tree .
That then highlights the faith of some as listed in Hebrews.
The faith of "little children" cannot be = to the faith of "young men" nor indeed of "ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning"


in Christ
gerald
There is faith that 'God is' and then there is 'faith in God'. If we overlap the two in our teaching the result is a catastrophe.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must 1. believe that he exists (all powerful God of the universe) and 2. that he rewards those who earnestly seek him (he is good). Seeking Him earnestly = hating what is evil and clinging to what is good Rom 12:9.

We grow in faith that God is good. As David says ''give thanks because God is good'' Psalm 136:1. Giving thanks is something we need to do. Something that we learn. It is live. It is something we choose to do at any moment. It is not always a given. Most times it is very hard to give thanks as we assume God is evil. We ''must'' believe He is God. Abraham had faith in God. He gave thanks that God is good when he was sacrificing his son. It was simply his trust in God being good that kept him and not his faith in there 'being a God'. Ie, walking on water is a given. Tempting / testing God however is not something someone who loves and respects Him would do. Ie As we grow in faith in 'God being good' we learn to treat Him better. God wants us to love Him as we are loved. God wants to grow in faith in us as much as He wants us to grow in faith in Him. That is all there is to it imho. Faith could not be a simpler subject. We confuse the bejeepers out of it.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith = Our faith in God being good rests in us being forgiven from sins and one-day being with God in heaven. Jesus has promised to see that fulfilled.

He was actually teaching that if the faith was as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain think what is possible if it becomes a great tree!
No, He was not teaching that. You and Jim are assuming that. That verse I quoted does not say that...at all!. Do you have another scripture and verse?
 
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geralduk

Inactive
There is faith that 'God is' and then there is 'faith in God'. If we overlap the two in our teaching the result is a catastrophe.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must 1. believe that he exists (all powerful God of the universe) and 2. that he rewards those who earnestly seek him (he is good). Seeking Him earnestly = hating what is evil and clinging to what is good Rom 12:9.

We grow in faith that God is good. As David says ''give thanks because God is good'' Psalm 136:1. Giving thanks is something we need to do. Something that we learn. It is live. It is something we choose to do at any moment. It is not always a given. Most times it is very hard to give thanks as we assume God is evil. We ''must'' believe He is God. Abraham had faith in God. He gave thanks that God is good when he was sacrificing his son. It was simply his trust in God being good that kept him and not his faith in there 'being a God'. Ie, walking on water is a given. Tempting / testing God however is not something someone who loves and respects Him would do. Ie As we grow in faith in 'God being good' we learn to treat Him better. God wants us to love Him as we are loved. God wants to grow in faith in us as much as He wants us to grow in faith in Him. That is all there is to it imho. Faith could not be a simpler subject. We confuse the bejeepers out of it.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith = Our faith in God being good rests in us being forgiven from sins and one-day being with God in heaven. Jesus has promised to see that fulfilled.

No, He was not teaching that. You and Jim are assuming that. That verse I quoted does not say that...at all!. Do you have another scripture and verse?

Im not mixing anything up.
The life of Abraham is of a mans faith growing in God.
The life of Gidion is of a mans faith growing in God.
The life of JOB was of a man who grew in faith and whos confessions reflected it.
The life of Jacob is of a man whos faith in God grew.

The life of Abraham I already laid out some pointers .Which you simply denied .
For one thing ,Gods call to him was to leave ALL that he knew , his kith and kin.
He went but took his father with him.
Once his father died (old man) he went a little further .
It was not untill he was able to say to Lot if you go this way I will go that way and if you go that way I will go this way .
By then it did not matter which way he went for he walked by faith and God was with Him.
Lot on the other hand walked by sight and chose accordingly.
Perfect love casteth out all fear and faith worketh by love .
Yet he was afraid of men who eh thought might kill him for Sarahs sake .
He in fact did this twice .
When God promised him a son. He had not the faith for it for he concieved a child by Haggah listening to his wife.rather than God.
In the end he did have and his faith was enough to conceive a child by Sarah.
With God all things are possible.
and all thinsg are possible to him who believes .
It cannot be said that eh did not have ANY faith .He did .Even LOT was counted righteous ,"for his righteous soul was vexed...." But did not walk by faith.
Abraham was not only counted righteous because he believed but he also learnt to walk by faith and by practice learn good from evil.
He was the friend of God .I suggest that friendships GROW .
By the time he came to sacrifice Issac his faith was of another order of growth than it was at the beginning.

in Christ
gerald
 

geralduk

Inactive
"We grow in faith that God is good "
The very fact that God saves us let alone gives us breath each day before we were saved proves God is good.
and I believe people receive from God unlooked for and undeserved mercies from God long before they were saved .
The fact of Gods goodness is not the issue .
In prayer we must at the beginning beleive God is and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
But experience both in answers to prayer for ourselves with others and for others does not need us to grow in faith that God is good . But rather our faith in God grows to expect more or rather to receive more primarily I think for others as much if at all for ourselves.
If we took the tabernacle made with hands as an example .We must enter the first curtain by faith and in the ourtewr court we see and perhaps pray more in accordance with our natural eyes and understanding forp the light is from the sun as it were .
But we are also called to enter into the Holy place.That too requires faith but a maturing faith .That puts off the old man and puts on Christ as it were or else puts of daily cloths and puts on the rainment of the priesthood as it were .
We cannot enter the Holy place in our old garments and we must also wash our feet (walk) and our hands (work) before we can so enter .
In the Holy place we have no 'natural light' but the light of the Holy Spirit as of the 7 branched lamp and the Word of God as of the shew bread.
here we walk and see by faith those things that are needful. Here we pray more for our bretheren than we do for ourselves and learn to pl,ease and serve God .
Here it is not so much MY father but OUR father ...
here we start to learn to pray and pray continually as exemplified by the alter of insence.
But what of the Holy of Holies ?
We are called to "boldly enter " But that does not mean foolishly as little children playing.
I would still argue that only ONE can enter in . But now not just the high priest but that "one" that the Lord spoke of in John 17 "that they maybe one even as ......"
For to pray in Jesus name is to have the same mind as the lord in the matter and to be gathered togther in my name is not so much to be geographically in the same place but in the other two also .
In that unity then we boldly can and may and do enter.
That too takes a growing faith.
Both to ask and to receive as much to enter.,
in Christ
gerald
 

Glomung

Account Closed
I don't mean to butt in to this conversation, but.... might as well.
KingJ has hit on an important point.
Act as if God is ACTUALLY THERE. Truth is, very few do. Just believing that there is a "god", in and of itself is worthless.
Secondly, trust God to do what is best for you, when it is needed. (not what YOU want, when YOU want it).
 
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Guest
People having trust in God is a common and hard thing.
However to have belief that He is there is one thing, to believe He is guiding our lives is another.
 

geralduk

Inactive
People having trust in God is a common and hard thing.
However to have belief that He is there is one thing, to believe He is guiding our lives is another.

Gathering in His name is not as simple as people think it is .For many people say they gather in His name but their minds and objectives and motives can be 'miles' away from Him and each other .

in Christ
gerald
 
Im not mixing anything up.
You are. You are assuming Abraham had faith (noun), like faith alone is something one can have that makes God happy. God could not give two hoots about how positive or full of faith we feel at any point of the day. God is only concerned with how much faith we have in Him. Unfortunately for us ...trials and tribulations on earth are the only thing that can develop / reveal this faith that God wants.
The life of Abraham is of a mans faith growing in God.
The life of Gidion is of a mans faith growing in God.
The life of JOB was of a man who grew in faith and whos confessions reflected it.
The life of Jacob is of a man whos faith in God grew.
Agreed. They all grew in faith in God. Not faith that God exists. Not faith that God can move a mountain.

The life of Abraham I already laid out some pointers .Which you simply denied .
For one thing ,Gods call to him was to leave ALL that he knew , his kith and kin.
He went but took his father with him.
Once his father died (old man) he went a little further .
It was not untill he was able to say to Lot if you go this way I will go that way and if you go that way I will go this way . By then it did not matter which way he went for he walked by faith and God was with Him.
Because of all the faith ''nonsense'' today we need to qualify its meaning / intention every time it is used.

Regarding the underlined, he walked by faith in God. Not faith that God exists. Not faith that God can move a mountain. Those were / are givens when one is convinced they are liaising with God of the universe as Heb 11:6 says we 'must'.

Lot on the other hand walked by sight and chose accordingly.
Perfect love casteth out all fear and faith worketh by love .
Yet he was afraid of men who eh thought might kill him for Sarahs sake .
He in fact did this twice .
When God promised him a son. He had not the faith for it for he concieved a child by Haggah listening to his wife.rather than God.
In the end he did have and his faith was enough to conceive a child by Sarah.

Lot 'walking by sight' could be 1. worse case scenario ...wanting God to jump on his lap like an atheist or 2. not believing God is good until God actually / literally does something good....on par with Jews needing to see a promised land of milk and honey or tenfold return on tithe.

He had fear because he did not have faith in God.
 
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People having trust in God is a common and hard thing.
However to have belief that He is there is one thing, to believe He is guiding our lives is another.
And what is even harder for most my dear brother Fish - Believing God will do what He says He will in His word. I mean truly believe with your entire core being and not just saying the words. It is so easy to say amen God is awesome and we all know this - but let the fire get turned up or another words let persecution come for the words sake and see how one acts or believes or trust in His word.

God Bless and Live like you are His
Jim
 
In that Jesus used the seed of the mustard that is the smallest of all herbs that can grow into the greatest tree .He was actually teaching that if the faith was as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain think what is possible if it becomes a great tree!
We can move ten mountains?

Moving a single mountain is perhaps greater then all the miracles Jesus and Moses ever did. So I am curious as to what exactly you have in mind. Don't you see how silly this teaching is? Jesus could just as easily have said ''faith of a grain of sand can move a galaxy''. Jesus was making a point apart from the size of ones faith. His point is that God can do anything and if we have His ear, we have His ear. John 9:31 tells us who has His ear. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. (Not the person with more faith).
 
We can move ten mountains?

Moving a single mountain is perhaps greater then all the miracles Jesus and Moses ever did. So I am curious as to what exactly you have in mind. Don't you see how silly this teaching is? Jesus could just as easily have said ''faith of a grain of sand can move a galaxy''. Jesus was making a point apart from the size of ones faith. His point is that God can do anything and if we have His ear, we have His ear. John 9:31 tells us who has His ear. We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. (Not the person with more faith).

Brother Kj,
Something to take note of........When reading in His written word - our intellect should be left out of it. We need to listen and allow the Spirit to teach us what He wants us to grasp in Gods written word. When we think we know it all or know what His word means over what others try to show us then we have become way side to this area and hearts and minds are pre-made up and we can not be taught.

DISCLAIMER............YOU IS USED AS IN GENERAL AS IN ANY BORN AGAIN BELEIVER.

Now then any time we see the word Mountain in His word that needs to be moved or destroyed or climbed or walked aroun it s always and I mean always REFERRING TO SOMETHING that is in our way or blocking or hindering or causing problems.

Such as a mountain of dept
Such as sickness or stress or unenployed etc. Habbits can be a mountain.
Please kinow that when Jesus said anything - it was said on purpose and for a purpose and that purpose is always GODS PURPOSE.

We must ALWAYS be wise and humble our selves before the Lord and always strive to be teachable.
God Bless
Jim
 
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