What False Teaching?

[The Town Crier]

One more thing...The saints are those killed during the time of tribulation:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.


Jesus returns with His ‘saints’ reign’:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him


to judge and reward the servants:

Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just


We are the servants folks:

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:



Will you be ready and called into the marriage supper or left out :



Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


Study to shew yourself approved unto God while their is time...

TC

 

[MichaelH]

Tribulation ends and then the wrath begins...scripture is very clear on this:

The tribulation ends at the fifth seal:


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Your reading Revelation like it's a book saying the seals, then trumpets, then Vials. It's visions given to John and not in chronological order. Also Tribulation means a time of trouble, and nothing you posted said the tribulation ended, it says they came out of tribulation.

That's like Logic saying these drowned in the ocean, now there is no more ocean. You need the scripture that says tribulation ended, not make that up. We don't add to the Word, ever.

Anyway, I am not interested in someone else teaching some things seem right but I would do some more study in this.
You do have the 6th seal pinpointed but to continue you have to address Apostasia which you conveniently skipped.

I don't care post trib, pre trib whatever, but we must stick with scripture and not add or assume things.

Blessings.

 

[KingJ]

It is clear that the fifth seal is the end of tribulation and the sixth seal is the start of the day of the Lord-thereby separating the tribulation from the wrath. There cannot be a rapture before the tribulation because the trumpets are not handed out until the seventh seal:

Sorry TC but have to be reading revelations wrong. Can you show me a single verse outside of revelations where God's wrath came upon His people? Obedient Jews and those that are in-Christ.

 

[The Town Crier]

Sorry TC but have to be reading revelations wrong. Can you show me a single verse outside of revelations where God's wrath came upon His people? Obedient Jews and those that are in-Christ.

I never said that God's wrath comes upon His people...I simply said that the tribulation and the wrath are two different events and scripture clearly says it. Revelation concurres with Jesus words:


Compare Jesus own words in Matthew and Mark with Revelation and you can easily see that the tribulation is over by the sixth seal. It says that after the tribulation, the sun will go dark, the moon will not shine:

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Isaiah 13 confirms the day of the Lord starts with the sun and moon being darkened:

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine

Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

It is clear that the fifth seal is the end of tribulation and the sixth seal is the start of the day of the Lord-thereby separating the tribulation from the wrath.

Lets look at some more proof ... Now compare Matthew(Jesus own words) with the full account of the sixth seal:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath starts after the tribulation.If you cannot see that as plainly as it is written, then I don't know what to tell you. It very clearly says that the sun will go dark, the moon will not shine, the stars will fall from Heaven and the day of wrath is here...The fifth seal reveals those who went through the tribulation...and the sixth seal/ Jesus words in Matthew confirm the timing of the events. You cannot dispute Jesus words my friend...

TC

 

[KingJ]

You have miss-understood my question. Revelations / end time verses is always debatable as they have not yet taken place.

From events already taken place, show me a single verse where God's wrath fell on His people (obedient Jews, Christians). There is simply no such. Now you want me to believe that your interpretation that swims against the current and volume of scripture on God's ways is correct....

God wrath does simply not fall on His people. How can you even think such? How can you serve a God who would do such? I don't think you have thought it through. What you are suggesting disgraces God.

 

[The Town Crier]

Your reading Revelation like it's a book saying the seals, then trumpets, then Vials. It's visions given to John and not in chronological order. Also Tribulation means a time of trouble, and nothing you posted said the tribulation ended, it says they came out of tribulation.

Town Crier response: Sorry, but you have that wrong- the tribulation is not 'the time of trouble'...

The 'Day of the Lord' is the 'time of trouble':

Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Nah 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble and he knoweth them that trust in him. Nah 1:8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.

Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?


Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a
time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


The 'time of trouble' will be for those who are 'looking for peace'...

Jer 8:15 We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Read the post I left for King J in regards to the tribulation...As for your 'apostasia' comment- You are correct..It is a feminine word because the word means 'divorce' or 'separation'. The apostasy or falling away is the Harlot Babylon. That is why 'Babylon is fallen'...A whole 'nother' subject my friend. What is important to realize about the tribulation/wrath/rapture is that those who don't understand the time of tribulation are going to be waiting around for a rapture instead of doing the will of God like good servants. We don't get caught up until the day of Judgment. Paul himself said that we who are still 'alive' and 'remain' after will be caught up in the clouds to them. He understood that Jesus sends the angels to sever the wicked' from among the just:

Both will be together until the end...

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When does Jesus return on the clouds:

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

That’s right...Jesus returns after the tribulation.

Instead of arguing with me, just download my PDF that covers all this. When you are done reading it, if you disagree, then you disagree...Only the Lord reveals scripture to us, but He said He will send a strong delusion to those who don't want to abide by the truth and endure until the end...Read 'the falling away is here' and then decide for yourself.

Click here to read: ' The falling away is here':

TC

[/quote]

 

[The Town Crier]

You have miss-understood my question. Revelations / end time verses is always debatable as they have not yet taken place.

From events already taken place, show me a single verse where God's wrath fell on His people (obedient Jews, Christians). There is simply no such. Now you want me to believe that your interpretation that swims against the current and volume of scripture on God's ways is correct....

God wrath does simply not fall on His people. How can you even think such? How can you serve a God who would do such? I don't think you have thought it through. What you are suggesting disgraces God.

I didn't misunderstand your question at all...We are in agreement- God will not place wrath upon His people. The tribulation and the wrath are not the same thing my friend...

TC

 

[MichaelH]

OK, The day of the Lord is after the 7th Seal. Check.

Day of the Lord end Tribulation. Check.

"Falling Away" .......... not apostasy, it's really Babylon, and another subject then. OK.

The only issue I have is the loose term time of trouble, and Tribulation. They are not really terms like Day of the Lord or they would be more specific.

Your also just looking at the Word trouble............... there is a "Time" of trouble and a "Day" of trouble mentioned. When Jesus comes, its all over, the fat lady sings, so it's a day of trouble.

When the 1st Angel blows that first trumpet, fire mixed with blood and hail will come down on the earth and burn 1/3 of the trees up. That is a time of trouble, and will make a big mess. It's just the first trumpet.

Your reading to much into Tribulation and trouble. Both just denote a hard period and not a very clear defined term such as "The Day of the Lord. that term is very consistent in the KJV at least. By doing that your just smoothing over "Time" and the word "Day"
you don't want to do that.



And no, not reading some .pdf............ If you don't have time to discuss it then fine with me.

 

[KingJ]

I didn't misunderstand your question at all...We are in agreement- God will not place wrath upon His people. The tribulation and the wrath are not the same thing my friend...

TC

That's good to know...for a second there....

 

[The Town Crier]

OK, The day of the Lord is after the 7th Seal. Check.

Day of the Lord end Tribulation. Check.

"Falling Away" .......... not apostasy, it's really Babylon, and another subject then. OK.

The only issue I have is the loose term time of trouble, and Tribulation. They are not really terms like Day of the Lord or they would be more specific.

Your also just looking at the Word trouble............... there is a "Time" of trouble and a "Day" of trouble mentioned. When Jesus comes, its all over, the fat lady sings, so it's a day of trouble.

When the 1st Angel blows that first trumpet, fire mixed with blood and hail will come down on the earth and burn 1/3 of the trees up. That is a time of trouble, and will make a big mess. It's just the first trumpet.

Your reading to much into Tribulation and trouble. Both just denote a hard period and not a very clear defined term such as "The Day of the Lord. that term is very consistent in the KJV at least. By doing that your just smoothing over "Time" and the word "Day"
you don't want to do that.



And no, not reading some .pdf............ If you don't have time to discuss it then fine with me.

I am happy to discuss it after you read the PDF..because then you will understand where I am coming from. If we 'discuss it' now, I will simply end up posting the same things that the PDF says and what a waste of time that would be. Just go read it and then come back and say ' I agree' or 'I don't agree and here is why'...then we can have a real discussion about it.

T/C.

 

[MichaelH]

I am happy to discuss it after you read the PDF..because then you will understand where I am coming from. If we 'discuss it' now, I will simply end up posting the same things that the PDF says and what a waste of time that would be. Just go read it and then come back and say ' I agree' or 'I don't agree and here is why'...then we can have a real discussion about it.

T/C.

Well, I can see what you mean about saving time. I don't like to go over stuff I already covered 3 or 4 times. ughhh. I will go have a look at it.

Blessings.

 

[MichaelH]

Do you have a more updated copy?

The first few pages I run into

2Th 2:3 Falling away

This group falls away from the faith and chooses not to
believe the gospel
-
but instead holds the truth unrighteously
and follows the ways of Satan. They are called the ‘wicked’...
It is not just one man it says
theyand
them

Apostasia does not mean fall away from faith. In fact Female Greek nouns can't do that or define their connection to something.

it would have to be written like this.

They Apostasia away from the truth in the Word.

They departed from the truth in the Word that they once believed.

Just like it's used in Acts. They "Forsake" Moses or departed from Moses by whom they once stood.

Get me a more correct update.

thank you.

Michael.