What Happens When Christians Forget?

Major said:
May I say here that what yu just said is "the" reason why Sunday School or Bible Study is so important.
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Where I come from ... Sunday School is what occurs during Church Service. It's so that the adults can listen to the sermon
without distractions... and at the same thing... the kids are getting their own lessons.

When you say Bible Study... Are you referring to a small group? ( which is a Bible study led in someone's home )... It is a solution for the problems you went through by having a close knit group of believers... come together to address matters that need addressing as well as learning scripture. I think the aim of these "small groups" is quite wonderful... because there you get into hearing stories.... understanding needs and having to opportunity to pray for each other.

I have never had the opportunity to attend one of these groups... but I would think they are a wonderful way to make a large church congregation more personal.
Love your sister... HAHAHA.
 
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forgiven61 said:
taking hymns out completely is like erasing history
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Forgiven I sure you right. I’ve never really looked into the history of church hymnals. But I sure they go back a long way into our church histories. Anyway it’s always refreshing singing the hymns of old they seem to always bring added spiritual joy and blessing
 
In Awe of Him said:
Where I come from ... Sunday School is what occurs during Church Service. It's so that the adults can listen to the sermon
without distractions... and at the same thing... the kids are getting their own lessons.

When you say Bible Study... Are you referring to a small group? ( which is a Bible study led in someone's home )... It is a solution for the problems you went through by having a close knit group of believers... come together to address matters that need addressing as well as learning scripture. I think the aim of these "small groups" is quite wonderful... because there you get into hearing stories.... understanding needs and having to opportunity to pray for each other.

I have never had the opportunity to attend one of these groups... but I would think they are a wonderful way to make a large church congregation more personal.
Love your sister... HAHAHA.
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Where I am, and the SBC churches have classes for all age groups that meet before the worship hour.

Sunday School/Bible study was only said to show what was being done. Some people as they age think the term, Sunday School is childish.

However, a Bible study is a small group that can take place anywhere at anytime. I have a Bible study here at my house every week. It is for the people who live in the neighborhood. My wife makes coffee and we have donuts and such before we begin.

I pick a Book of the Bible and we go through it one verse at a time. We always have about 20 people or so and it never fails that someone will have a personal situation that they want to talk about and get advice from others.

You see sis, in a worship service, it is always one way communication. The Pastor speaks, we listen and then go home. In a Bible study, people talk to the teacher and to others always seeking advice or understanding of a Scripture.

Allow me to illustrate. Not long ago, a new couple moved into the neighborhood and came to our Bible study. It just so happened that we were in the gospel of John chapter 3. When we got to the 5th verse........
" Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.".

The new man said to us all, doesn't that mean we must be baptized to be saved. I mean right there it says water".
That opened the door to teach this man the truth of God's Word. I explained to him that the CONTEXT was and it was about being born, hence born again. Then I explained to him that in the 1st birth of all men, there is abiotic fluid which is water.

Verse 3...."I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Verse 4....."Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Verse 5......."Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit".
 
In Awe of Him said:
Good morning Forgiven...

As you are aware... I am UNCHURCHED.... The churches I have attended in the past have both embraced the more modern Worship music venue. Both churches openly encouraged and invited all members to participate.... Both churches promoted CORPORATE Worship.
I feel very blessed to have experienced the POWER and PRESENCE of God in those days. WE do not have such churches in the city I live now.

I listen to all types of music. The internet allows very easy access to all forms of Worship/Christian music. I also listen to classical... jazz... harp.
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The Title of this Thread is What Happens When Christians Forget. The topic has moved along to church and choice of music.

I feel the NEED to emphasize for anyone who may be reading this thread... that there is NO such thing as a spiritual loss of blessings over the type of music we listen to or don't listen to. Christian music is created to celebrate and honour God. It's all good... it all has equal benefit.... and it is all EQUALLY pleasing to God.
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I agree.

What forgiven 61 is talking about is personal preferences.

What I have learned over the years is that the Word of God never, ever compromises. Truth is truth no matter who says it.

However, that does not mean we as people can not like different kinds of music, or church times or days of worship.

Elderly church members usually gravitate to the old hymns because......(Yes this is phycological true) those songs take them back in their minds to an earlier time in their life. I include me in that position as well.

The younger crowd just does not relate to that so they look for more of the modern, contemporary songs.

We did what my minister of music called..."Blended Music". Then when went to two services where contemporary was in one and traditional in the other. We did not say who could go to any particular service, but by choice, the younger crowd went to the contemporary service.
 
cocoa said:
Yes,but whenever you sin you turn away from God. We've come to God initially but we have to stay turned towards Him.
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Cocoa, I hear what you are saying, but let me say to you that when a Christian sins, they are not necessarily turning away from God.

It makes sense that, when we are going against something, or we are living in known sin, we are separate from God. By definition, then, sin separates us from God.

I hope that what I say will encourage you so that you can understand that even as Christians, our sin can continue to separate us from God’s fellowship. Sin is like a dark curtain pulled over a sunny window. The sun is still there, but the curtain creates a separation from its warmth and light.

When we repent, ask for forgivness, God lifts the curtain and restores the relationship we once enjoyed. Any unconfessed sin in the life of a follower of Jesus can create a sense of separation from God. God does not leave us, but the light and warmth of fellowship was cut off when we chose sin.

We do not lose our salvation, because Jesus paid our debt in full. But we can lose the love, joy, and peace of the Holy Spirit when we persist in living apart from God.
 
forgiven61 said:
one thing i am not and that's a writer no disagreement with him..... I'm just stating what's out there ..i watch some mega church services your choirs are of the cream of the crop to notch talent . no i am not in full favor of replacing the hymns %100 PERSONALLY I FAVOR A MIXTURE OF THE NEW WITH THE OLD.. what i see on my computer screen is a gospel concert of top notch entertainment .. i happen to know some talented singers they sing from the heart under the anointing. they may stop in mid song or give a few minutes intro testimony message before the song . some might even have a run away in the spirit shout or start crying . i watched a young lady at my bro church sing goodness of God.. she is good but will get better as she sings... the altar was used during the song...we program our services too the point of being spiritual robots . people may call me a trouble maker or a person who has no idea what they are talking about.. its not so much the type music regardless of my preference .. do we allow the Holy spirit to move.. what if the power of God hits and they can no longer sing.. the preacher cant preach... i have experienced this been in services like that. i have seen the altars used in the 2nd song . it broke out people came out of the pews to either pray or pray with those praying.. i lament for the Church to return back to the heart of worship . it education/talent over anointing ..i cant sing very good my wife tells me i tear a song up lol..... its the anointing that destroys the yoke . i long for the old time revivals church house full . spirit of God moving . am i radikal yes i am in closing our biggest enemy is the person we see in the mirror
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Prim90 said:
The second song on video the old rugged cross be timeless like so many of those old time hymns. Some churches do away with them completely. I think deep spiritual blessings are lost when done so completely. Forgiven I’m sure your right a balance be required between the old time worship and the modern.
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In Awe of Him said:
Good morning Forgiven...As you are aware... I am UNCHURCHED.... The churches I have attended in the past have both embraced the more modern Worship music venue. The Title of this Thread is What Happens When Christians Forget. The topic has moved along to church and choice of music. I feel the NEED to emphasize for anyone who may be reading this thread... that there is NO such thing as a spiritual loss of blessings over the type of music we listen to or don't listen to. Christian music is created to celebrate and honour God. It's all good... it all has equal benefit.... and it is all EQUALLY pleasing to God.
Click to expand...

Good morning, forgiven, In Awe of Him and Prim90;

What we forget, or overlook is Pastors have been on the decline for various reasons, decline in Church attendance and a lack of younger Pastors to succeed them. The newer, young graduating seminary Pastors "want a career," the better the Church the better the opportunity.

A Pastor is an overseer of the whole Church he is leading. So when a Church lacks a Pastor, the music ministry does not have the full vision of God. It's not a matter of selecting a few songs and playing each Sunday. God inhabits the praises of His people. The history of old hymns still minister to people along with the more current praise and worship music. This is God's anointing.

I'm currently serving what is called Renewal Ministry. We foster struggling Churches and assist with finding them a Pastor (this is a long process.) So to help fill the pulpit I am scheduled to preach 2-3 times each month at Churches besides preaching at our Home Church.

What we forget is old hymns that have survived 100+ years ago was considered the new current praise and worship music. Did you all know that a hymnal book is updated approximately every 20 years? Back in the 1980s Don Moen's Give Thanks is now considered a hymn in most hymnal books.

So the Churches I visit put together their best music ministry with a lack of musicians. It's usually the music leader who will select the songs less hymnals and play newer songs of the year. Other Churches don't have musicians so they play YouTube worship music from their sound system and screen.

Those wonderful Mega Churches can be impressive and attract talented musicians. There are members at CFS who attend them. Mega Churches have deep pockets because attendance is high but when it declines there is a Marketing Staff (Ministry) ready to target new visitors. When most Pastors of Mega Churches get asked to sit and speak regarding their Church, they will send a spokesperson for the Church unless the Pastor is doing a nationwide interview (free plug and publicity.)

The Pastors of 95% of small Churches will sit and speak face to face with anyone regarding it's ministry.

But, just like all Churches, we need to remember they all come with internal problems, problems we need to pray for, daily. The bigger the Church the more people problems that will exist. Both small and large Churches have suffered the most devastating times, mostly leader, individual members, again, the people. This greatly impacts the music ministry.

What we are to remember is despite the Church you attend, watch on the internet including praise and worship music is where you feel God is leading you, however, people problems will exist.
 
I find rowdy church service to be... awkward. Anything more than a single instrument is actually a distraction. My preference is a near empty church, where people can light candles and pray quietly without interference.

Modern sermons with full bands and song lists don't do anything for me except make me want to sit right next to the door so I can quietly step out.
 
bobinfaith said:
Good morning, forgiven, In Awe of Him and Prim90;

What we forget, or overlook is Pastors have been on the decline for various reasons, decline in Church attendance and a lack of younger Pastors to succeed them. The newer, young graduating seminary Pastors "want a career," the better the Church the better the opportunity.

A Pastor is an overseer of the whole Church he is leading. So when a Church lacks a Pastor, the music ministry does not have the full vision of God. It's not a matter of selecting a few songs and playing each Sunday. God inhabits the praises of His people. The history of old hymns still minister to people along with the more current praise and worship music. This is God's anointing.

I'm currently serving what is called Renewal Ministry. We foster struggling Churches and assist with finding them a Pastor (this is a long process.) So to help fill the pulpit I am scheduled to preach 2-3 times each month at Churches besides preaching at our Home Church.

What we forget is old hymns that have survived 100+ years ago was considered the new current praise and worship music. Did you all know that a hymnal book is updated approximately every 20 years? Back in the 1980s Don Moen's Give Thanks is now considered a hymn in most hymnal books.

So the Churches I visit put together their best music ministry with a lack of musicians. It's usually the music leader who will select the songs less hymnals and play newer songs of the year. Other Churches don't have musicians so they play YouTube worship music from their sound system and screen.

Those wonderful Mega Churches can be impressive and attract talented musicians. There are members at CFS who attend them. Mega Churches have deep pockets because attendance is high but when it declines there is a Marketing Staff (Ministry) ready to target new visitors. When most Pastors of Mega Churches get asked to sit and speak regarding their Church, they will send a spokesperson for the Church unless the Pastor is doing a nationwide interview (free plug and publicity.)

The Pastors of 95% of small Churches will sit and speak face to face with anyone regarding it's ministry.

But, just like all Churches, we need to remember they all come with internal problems, problems we need to pray for, daily. The bigger the Church the more people problems that will exist. Both small and large Churches have suffered the most devastating times, mostly leader, individual members, again, the people. This greatly impacts the music ministry.

What we are to remember is despite the Church you attend, watch on the internet including praise and worship music is where you feel God is leading you, however, people problems will exist.
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Yep....I agree.

You said...........
"The bigger the Church the more people problems that will exist."

Absolutely true.

The largest Church membership I ministered was about 700. Of that number, we would usually have about 400 on any given Sunday.

In the SBC that is considered a large church, however the work and ministry only changes IF...IF the pastor allow it to change.

If he can not delegate his deacons to help him do the work, he will not survive and will wind up disillusioned or in a small church.

Even in my large church.....I kept regular business hours, 9 to 5 every day except Wednesdays. The door was always open to anyone who wanted to talk to me.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I find rowdy church service to be... awkward. Anything more than a single instrument is actually a distraction. My preference is a near empty church, where people can light candles and pray quietly without interference.

Modern sermons with full bands and song lists don't do anything for me except make me want to sit right next to the door so I can quietly step out.
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Been there and done that as well.

Chaos is easily spotted.
 
Major said:
Cocoa, I hear what you are saying, but let me say to you that when a Christian sins, they are not necessarily turning away from God.

It makes sense that, when we are going against something, or we are living in known sin, we are separate from God. By definition, then, sin separates us from God.

I hope that what I say will encourage you so that you can understand that even as Christians, our sin can continue to separate us from God’s fellowship. Sin is like a dark curtain pulled over a sunny window. The sun is still there, but the curtain creates a separation from its warmth and light.

When we repent, ask for forgivness, God lifts the curtain and restores the relationship we once enjoyed. Any unconfessed sin in the life of a follower of Jesus can create a sense of separation from God. God does not leave us, but the light and warmth of fellowship was cut off when we chose sin.

We do not lose our salvation, because Jesus paid our debt in full. But we can lose the love, joy, and peace of the Holy Spirit when we persist in living apart from God.
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You explained this perfectly!
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I find rowdy church service to be... awkward. Anything more than a single instrument is actually a distraction. My preference is a near empty church, where people can light candles and pray quietly without interference.

Modern sermons with full bands and song lists don't do anything for me except make me want to sit right next to the door so I can quietly step out.
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Sometimes in some churches it's hard to differentiate between a pep rally and a worship service with the music leader functioning more like a cheerleader than a music minister. These kinds of services can be spotted by seeing the music leader having congregation repeat a mantra of one-liner choruses until congregation suffers from fatigue. That's the same tactic used by people who stir up mobs in the secular world. Christian worship should engage thd mind and not just stir up physical responses through repetitive chants.
 
BibleLover said:
Sometimes in some churches it's hard to differentiate between a pep rally and a worship service with the music leader functioning more like a cheerleader than a music minister. These kinds of services can be spotted by seeing the music leader having congregation repeat a mantra of one-liner choruses until congregation suffers from fatigue. That's the same tactic used by people who stir up mobs in the secular world. Christian worship should engage thd mind and not just stir up physical responses through repetitive chants.
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Yes sir. What you described is the search for excitement and emotionalism in Christianity.

Strickly a personal opinion, the rise of Pentecostalism in the past 100 years has lead a move world wide where people look for and expect to be excited and filled with emotionalism during the worship service.

That emotionalism, and I am referring to a state of mind and being that may be broadly defined as “a tendency to regard things emotionally,” or an “undue indulgence in or display of emotion", has led to "Idolatry!"

What I see in these churches is an outpouring of emotionalism as the people in them are always looking for the next emotional "high".
Those individuals have became a slave to emotionalism which is in fact "Idolatry" as the experience has replaced the worship of God.

Allowing sheer emotion to dominate your thoughts, words, and actions will inevitably lead you to think of yourself before others.

This is only my opinion and everyone is free to reject and or ignore it.
 
In Awe of Him said:
I have heard stories of churches actually FIGHTING over the music that is to be presented... and some people actually leaving congregations that dared to modernize their songs.
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forgiven61 said:
they fight over anything
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Yes, years ago I was in the praise team. I was visiting my sister in Lodi, CA and attended a Church close to her apartment. I arrived early and prayed while the praise team was rehearsing.

A couple of musicians got into a little "morning crankiness" and after a couple of verbal exchanges (and quoting of the Scripture to win the argument) they got on with the rehearsal.

I sat there in the pew and quietly shook my head. I was tempted to make a remark to them but then forgot I was just a guest and not there to make trouble. 🫢

2 Timothy 2:14, Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. - NIV

Minutes before service started the Pastor showed up and he went around welcoming the new visitors. He had no clue what happened during the praise rehearsal and when he came to me, fortunately I forgot all about it.

😎 lol!
 
bobinfaith said:
What we forget,
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alot has been forgotten i have no issue with education but it does not teach one how to preach.. i have seen young men fresh out of seminary . when they preached it was like a robot .. notes are fine but step away from the notes and preach. at a gospel singing they gave a altaart call had the young pastor come up.. poor guy didnt have a clue

I'm currently serving what is called Renewal Ministry. We foster struggling Churches and assist with finding them a Pastor (this is a long process.) So to help fill the pulpit I am scheduled to preach 2-3 times each month at Churches besides preaching at our Home Church.
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i would love to do something like that . i enjoy being pastor and i enjoy our congregation ..i do earn for growth i have one young lady that has made tremendous progress ..her and her boy friend started coming i did the ceremony s.. i was preaching hard while they came ..one sunday she told her dad i felt like he was preaching to us... yes i was living together is a sin..they like to stay up late on saturday night and let the kids stay up to.. they tend to over sleep on Sunday morning. i send a text hey kido we miss you.. i have another lady been out of church close to a year. her 94 year old mom fell broke her hip .. she just past about week ago . she is sick .

i am not going to elaborate any more on your post . every one needs to pastor to even begin to understand what they go through. this sunday i preached on the trying of your faith. good Lord willing . i will probably finish up on the fiery trails the refiners fire
 
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