What if there was no reward?

Euphemia said:
Yes it is very true! It is worded well. I was saying it a little less harshly than God does for He says that all our own righteousness acts are like filthy, stained menstrual rags.
Isaiah 64:6a
We are all infected and impure with sin.
When we display our righteous deeds,
they are nothing but filthy rags.
Truly, you are merely arguing for the sake of argument. I don't respect that.
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From reading the other thread I see we agree on this. That line you used sounded like Calvinism to me. I am not wanting to argue. I appreciate all your posts except those on Abrahams faith ;).
 
boltardy said:
1. I'm not a father. Personal feeling says that if I was and that happened, I would have a big fight on my hands. It would be a bigger challenge than I want to face. My "natural desire" would be to have the bloke slaughtered but you are right. How long it would take me to come to terms with this is something I don't know.

Closest in real terms I can come to on this is Sophie Hook. I believe here parents were at least able to forgive the crime.

2. Me, to my shame, having once been arrested on suspicion of rape (turned out someone thought the way to get attention from her parents was to claim she was raped - and it emerged she in fact had sex with her consent at the time of alleged rape - some guy had the guts to come in to the police station and say he was with her) know my first reaction on that was "thank God I have witnesses to where I was this time).

Even getting over that sort of thing is hard.
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1. Me too. We mostly fail at Christianity on matters like this.

2. That's terrible, sorry bud. Have you seen karma?
 
KingJ said:
2. That's terrible, sorry bud. Have you seen karma?
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Not really. She got 6 months youth detention. It sort of gives some relief that the law did accept wholly innocent people had got got caught up but there's there's no real satisfaction in that.

Closest maybe I got was speaking to someone in a pub. He knew the family and explained the upset they felt. They couldn't understand it.

Me I didn't think to follow up. And was quite bitter and confused for a while. I'd hope she is doing well now but (apart from the ID where she picked someone else out) I've not met her.
 
Softly said:
I have been raped twice, 14 years old and 19 years old. I don't hate them, I don't think I ever did, i struggled with depression for a few years afterwards and tried to commit suicide but hate, no. One day when meditating I asked if I could be inside the mind of a rapist, to understand why. I learned a lot from that experience, I felt the absolute lust/need/desire that drove them, I felt the dissasociation and what seemed like a rationalised insanity and I knew that it had nothing to do with me, it was about them and I could let go of the pain. I think through understanding and compassion (though never tolerance of rape) I have no bad feelings for either men, that in no way am I affected in life by what has happened. Would I house a man that has abused me? My ex was emotionally and mentally abusive, he has a job in the family business and has to live on the premises for the job, yes I would, because I am not in his head, I do not know his suffering and reasonings why, I don't know how he mentally processes things, I do not know his internal emotional condition to judge him. Can I make a decision not to allow him into my life again as common sense protection and be grateful for the good things he did bring into my life and choose to let go of the anguish, yes I can.
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I think its amazing you hold no hate toward your rapists. I know you said sympathizing helped... But could you go into detail,if you dont mind... I'm trying to get rid of a grudge( though its nothing compared to what you went through)

I just wondered how you forgave when it happened twice...that second encounter would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
pancakes said:
I think its amazing you hold no hate toward your rapists. I know you said sympathizing helped... But could you go into detail,if you dont mind... I'm trying to get rid of a grudge( though its nothing compared to what you went through)

I just wondered how you forgave when it happened twice...that second encounter would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
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I'll try my best and relate it more towards to a situation I think might be more suitable to your question.
I think about how i react to others in everyday situations and question my motives, needs and what i truly want from situations, eg; why when we are angry or hurt, do we want to hurt the person that hurt us, what are we achieving by doing that other than spiralling the hurt/pain process and temporarily satisfying our egos need. Often I find its acceptance and love, acknowledgement or emotional attention that are some of the foundational emotions. We need self awareness and the ability to act on that self awareness, without ego or regard to the outcome if it's not what we want it to be. A recent example was with my neighbour. A friend and myself were cutting back his over grown branches on my side of the fence and took some of the top of his tree as a consequence. I'd gone next door twice to ask permission and he wasn't home and suddenly he appeared on his roof yelling and pointing his finger at us and scared me. My friend defended himself and they started yelling at each other. I thought to myself, my neighbour is probably just hurt or offended, even though we did the right thing by trying to contact him a few minutes earlier, it didn't matter, his hurt needed to be healed. I interrupted their 'exchange' and said I was really sorry and didn't defend myself, he said thank you and made a remark about my friend needing to be sorry too. The next day I bought him potted tulips and yummy chocolates and put them in a pink sparky gift bag and went meekly next door, (angry men scare me), after a few minutes talking through the door he realised I wasn't a ninja warrior in a deceptively cunning sparkly pink disguise and opened the security door and we had a lovely chat, he's quite a nice person. As I explained to my friend, we can never know the reasonings for someone else's behaviour and we can't judge them on what we don't know, so it's best to work toward a positive outcome, working with our self knowledge, rather than an egoic outcome that has no end to the hurt cycle and only teaches people more hard life 'lessons' that reinforces a negative mind set they never needed to learn if we understood that everyone is hurting or has been hurt and that love and acceptance is the answer, even if they don't love us back, because it's not about the outcome as much as it's about kindness, speaking from the heart without fear of rejection or failure, and maybe in the process being a positive influence. No matter what someone has done to hurt you, there is a myriad of hurt and a lifetime of 'lessons' they are carrying with them too. Compassion is understanding it's not all about us emotionally, that we have a responsibility to look after other people emotionally as well. The same applies with the rapists, were they brutally beaten, assaulted, brought up in drug addicted or alcoholic homes or mentally ill, it's not for me judge another's life I have not led and carry that hatred on to other people, like my neighbour for instance. The cycle of anger, hatred, ego etc has to stop somewhere, i chose to stop it at myself and I meet the kindest most lovely people on my journey through life and I didn't have to give up common sense, I had to use it.
 
Softly said:
What if there was no reward in heaven or no rapture, would you still try and be a good person. Do we need a reason to be compassionate and kind, thoughtful of others regardless of what they have done to us, does another person dictate our reactions or do we, through self knowledge and understanding, choose compassion and react with kindness. What does being a good person mean to you, how have you implemented your interpretation of being a good person in your every day life. To what degree is the gospel the reason for being a good person and to what degree is goodness itself, reason enough to be a good person. Do we need a reward for kindness.
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The only reward I need is peace of mind and the eternal company of Jesus Christ. I can do without the mansions and streets of gold. :D :D :D

Maybe that's why faith is so important: we obey God and follow His Commandments (incl. good works) not because we are forced to but because we honestly believe He is real and we want to serve Him. Great way to test our sincerity and a smart move from the Father. ;)
 
Euphemia said:
It's futile for any of us to try to be a "good person", for God says no one is good, and that the human heart is unspeakably wicked.
[...]
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Absolutely!

It's not about being good, it's about being godly.

'You do good things, you get stabbed in the back. You do godly things, Jesus got your back' (John Ramirez)
 
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