What is a Bible?

Craig, I see you have still to introduce yourself in the Introductions section, but would much rather be our instructor.
 
So far I haven't given any open disagreement with what has been stated. However, I have recieved seemingly flippant and reflexive responses instead.
I have seen too many new believer's discouraged by such behavior when they ask questions. They are expected to listen and consider, but are rarely given the same courtesy in return.
As the bible states, iron sharpens iron. For those who have never sharpened a blade it is intially a process that requires some effort, especially if the blade has seen hard use. It becomes simpler as the metal is honed.

I am looking for discussion and to have what I say be given real consideration istead of just being dismissed out of hand because I don't fall into line with the first "corrective" response of the majority opinion.

Lanolin, you are exceedingly right in stating that God is not the author of confusion, but it is arrogant for any of us to believe that we fully understand Him or His ways. We can spend lifetimes in prayer and study of scripture and we will barely scratch the surface.
When we share and discuss we grow and have fellowship, but when one party is ignored pushed aside, there can be no fellowship.
 
We all learning. If I come across as dismissive, I'm sorry.
eg I can't have fellowship with ppl that think alcohol is a good thing and want me to drink it as well and laugh at me cos my body can't handle it. And keep insisting on this.
I am not confused about what alcohol does to people. People who have DIED and didn't need to.
People who destroyed themselves or other people lives just cos they thought it was ok to drink alcohol. And excuse others when they drunk. People who's parents drank and then couldn't be there for their families. That's where sometimes I need to draw the line. This isn't about being arrogant.
Also, I find it confusing that people will use SCRIPTURE to justify drinking alcohol when there is no such directive.
 
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Not all of us have all day to spend on a forum...If you looking for every point being considered, you may have to lower your expectation a bit. some things, we dont need to keep rehashing.

Besides, our opinions don't count. It is what God says that counts and we should always be searching scripture to see if these things are so.

The only thing that annoys me is if someone wants to ask something and send someone on wild goose chase through the Bible when they could have just posted the scripture in question themselves if they already knew.

I dont know I never been to bible college if that's your style sorry. I don't like debate for the sake of it, although some ppl think oh it's just 'discussion' but they really looking for debate with opposing sides.
 
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Lanolin, you are spot on. There are some things that there just isn't room for "discussion" (debate) on. The Bible being the infallible word of God is one of them!
 
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Juk

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I'm a Bible believer. I'm sure many have come here claiming that, nothing new there.

But what do I believe? Well what does it say about itself?

Is it true?

Thy Word is truth - John 17:17 KJB

What is it's importance?

Part 1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
- John 1:1 KJB

Part II - I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. - Psalm 138:2 KJB

What will I gain from it? What will it do for me?

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12 KJB

1. quick
2. powerful
3. discerner

Those are the attributes of a living thing, aren't they?

see - John 1:1 again for reference

What should I do?

Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read - Isaiah 34:16 KJB

Then what?

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. - Luke 4:4 KJB

At this point, the only question ie,

which part of EVERY don't you understand?

Thank you for your time,
Craig
Gr8 post m8 I rate 8/8
 

Juk

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Well…
My post pretty much received the responses I expected.
I’m still figuring out how your system here works so please bear with me if my responses seem a bit jumbled…

Lanolin,
What a thing is called does not affect or change what that thing is. Many books (quran, book of mormon, etc…) and things in man’s history have been and are still called holy.
As a general teaching or discussion point simply calling it holy does not make it so.
There are many who think of and call the bible evil. Does that make it evil?
A little bit of research will show us that there have been a fair number of translation issues and corrections made to the King James version alone. Your own post demonstrates that you yourself have noted translation issues in at least one other version.
Please note the similarity between your “I just ask God about it.” remark and the last part of my original post.

Major,
The issue of the bible’s validity is important and I don’t think anyone here has stated or believes otherwise. My point is that statements/arguments about its validity tend to be counterproductive.
When dealing with other believers, I have found it a far more efficient use of time to simply just get into the word and let it convince them of its own veracity.
When dealing with immature believer’s, believers who have been discipled by churches who hold more to the world’s views than to God’s, with non-believers, or with those openly antagonistic to the things of God saying “It is true because it says it is true” is circular and does nothing but place a stumbling block in their path.
Given the way you posted, I’m willing to bet that if you saw someone using a similar reasoning pattern in something you found questionable you would catch it quickly.
A different example of circular reasoning:
The layer of earth that fossil was found in was laid down millions of years ago so that fossil we found in it must be millions of years old and if the fossil is that old, then the layer of earth it was found in must be millions of years old.

Craig,
Your response apparently ignored much of my post and imputed things that I did not say. Do feel that I should treat your posts the same way? If I do, there will be no room for discussion and possibly eventual fellowship.
It will only become a repetition the many ritualized and generally non-productive responses we see all over the net and in the dying churches across this country.
I try to consider the whole of what people say without addition and ask for the same consideration.

Some questions for all of us to consider (Joshua 1:8, psalm 77:12, psalm 119:15):
1. If the bible is without error then why are there so many translations within the same base languages (English, Spanish, etc…)?
2. If the bible is complete, then what is the point of all the commentaries, studies, and sermons that expound on what it says?
3. What do we do when the bible is taken from us (especially a new believer who hasn’t had time to take it to heart)?
4. What does an illiterate person or a person who cannot get a translation in a language they can read do with it?
5. How did the first church prosper without so much of what we now as the bible?
6. How can a new believer know they have a valid version as opposed to a feminist bible, a witness bible, a kanye bible, etc…?
Food for thought, and the kind of things that I have found many new believers who are just beginning to dig into the word ask.
It seems like you are trying to b8 an argument m8.
 
It seems like you are trying to b8 an argument m8.
No. I am not trying to bait an argument (Did I understand you correctly?). I am trying to promote thought. The bible tells us to meditate/think on the things of God and things that are good.

I have just seen such responses to questions or potentially differing thoughts too many times. It is more common in those with religious hearts whether the religion they hold dear is a doctrine, a sport, a teacher, a book, a person, or anything else.
There is an unspoken (usually) assumption that one who would ask or broach such questions or thoughts is some sort of heathen, heritic, ignoramus, or weakling. With that assumption comes a trained, dismissive, or antagonistic response that most are not even aware of until they are on the recieving end.
This is very easy to see if you ever get involved in any kind of discussion involving politics or the subjects that are currently banned on this sight.

In most cases, when the dismissive person actually focuses on listening more than on responding, they'll understand or begin to understand where the person they dismissed was going with the question/thought.
That listening is one of the key responses in creating disciples, and it is something that Jesus demonstrated. That listening makes it easier to get to the heart of a person and bypass the trained responses.

This is what I see throughout scripture and in my own experience.
 
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Juk

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No. I am not trying to bait an argument (Did I understand you correctly?). I am trying to promote thought. The bible tells us to meditate/think on the things of God and things that are good.

I have just seen such responses to questions or potentially differing thoughts too many times. It is more common in those with religious hearts whether the religion they hold dear is a doctrine, a sport, a teacher, a book, a person, or anything else.
There is an unspoken (usually) assumption that one who would ask or broach such questions or thoughts is some sort of heathen, heritic, ignoramus, or weakling. With that assumption comes a trained, dismissive, or antagonistic response that most are not even aware of until they are on the recieving end.
This is very easy to see if you ever get involved in any kind of discussion involving politics or the subjects that are currently banned on this sight.

In most cases, when the dismissive person actually focuses on listening more than on responding, they'll understand or begin to understand where the person they dismissed was going with the question/thought.
That listening is one of the key responses in creating disciples, and it is something that Jesus demonstrated. That listening makes it easier to get to the heart of a person and bypass the trained responses.

This is what I see throughout scripture and in my own experience.
I agree.
 
No. I am not trying to bait an argument (Did I understand you correctly?). I am trying to promote thought. The bible tells us to meditate/think on the things of God and things that are good.

I have just seen such responses to questions or potentially differing thoughts too many times. It is more common in those with religious hearts whether the religion they hold dear is a doctrine, a sport, a teacher, a book, a person, or anything else.
There is an unspoken (usually) assumption that one who would ask or broach such questions or thoughts is some sort of heathen, heritic, ignoramus, or weakling. With that assumption comes a trained, dismissive, or antagonistic response that most are not even aware of until they are on the recieving end.
This is very easy to see if you ever get involved in any kind of discussion involving politics or the subjects that are currently banned on this sight.

In most cases, when the dismissive person actually focuses on listening more than on responding, they'll understand or begin to understand where the person they dismissed was going with the question/thought.
That listening is one of the key responses in creating disciples, and it is something that Jesus demonstrated. That listening makes it easier to get to the heart of a person and bypass the trained responses.

This is what I see throughout scripture and in my own experience.
Eric, I am new here, so I can't speak for CFS. However, I am not new to forums - I ran my own for 5 years. I can tell you from experience that the problem is not in attempting to spark dialog and getting people to think. The problem is when you are questioning the very foundations of their belief. The very first line in the CFS Statement of Beliefs says "The Holy Scriptures, in it's original form, is the inerrant Word of God." There are some things that can be talked about and questioned until both sides are blue in the face. But the very tenets of our faith cannot be questioned. There simply is no room for discussion. Things like the Bible being the infallible word of God, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and rose again on the third day - these beliefs are what makes us Christians. We can't allow any doubt about them to creep in.

You came into a place whose very belief is that the Bible in inerrant - incapable of being wrong - and asked us to consider that there are errors in the Bible. Did you expect us to be open to it?
 
No. I am not trying to bait an argument (Did I understand you correctly?). I am trying to promote thought. The bible tells us to meditate/think on the things of God and things that are good.

I have just seen such responses to questions or potentially differing thoughts too many times. It is more common in those with religious hearts whether the religion they hold dear is a doctrine, a sport, a teacher, a book, a person, or anything else.
There is an unspoken (usually) assumption that one who would ask or broach such questions or thoughts is some sort of heathen, heritic, ignoramus, or weakling. With that assumption comes a trained, dismissive, or antagonistic response that most are not even aware of until they are on the recieving end.
This is very easy to see if you ever get involved in any kind of discussion involving politics or the subjects that are currently banned on this sight.

In most cases, when the dismissive person actually focuses on listening more than on responding, they'll understand or begin to understand where the person they dismissed was going with the question/thought.
That listening is one of the key responses in creating disciples, and it is something that Jesus demonstrated. That listening makes it easier to get to the heart of a person and bypass the trained responses.

This is what I see throughout scripture and in my own experience.
Yes, I think you are right. The purpose of a forum like this is to see, think about it and challenge yourself and then post a useful reply. I have noticed on a number of forums that communication actually breaks down. I can also be guilty here.
For example, you make a statement, this statement may consist of a number of sentences, someone then responds, but literally takes only the last sentence into consideration, and that causes massive misunderstanding.
I think forum discussions are conducive to that, except if it is a forum about something shallow, then everyone gets along pretty well. Hearing is likely more important than speaking, so I would agree to your point.
 
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