What is a Christian?

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Godhelpus

This came up in another discussion about who appears at the judgment seat of Christ. Since all Christians must appear at His seat, then who are they? I learned from it a very important lesson in how to treat Christians now on earth, as the Lord wants us to.

First, this is not about judging who is a 'real' Christian or not, nor about judging which Christians are saved or not. From (James 4:11-12), that is not for us Christians to do. We ought judge ourselves, not one another. It's only the Lord that will judge His people. (Heb 10:30)

This is strictly about who is a Christian and can be called Christian. And that is made known by the word of the Lord. In 1 Peter 4:15, the Scripture counts someone a Christian, even if doing evil. And if Scripture names someone a Christian, then they are Christians, and shall appear at Christ's judgment seat.

Anyone confessing faith in Christ, and naming Christ with faith, is a Christian believer. Only those not confessing faith nor naming His name, is a non-believer and not a Christian.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

We see here, that only the Spirit can inspire anyone to call Jesus Lord. And no one cursing Christ can be a Christian believer. Therefore, anyone confessing faith in Christ, can only do so by the Spirit of Christ.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

It's not possible to say someone is not a Christian, and a non-believer, when the Christ Himself is inspiring the faith to call Him Lord. To say they are not a Christian and a non-believer, is to reject the Holy Ghost that inspires them to do so.

Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

The truth is, that even if we are not honoring the Lord in our works, everyone naming His name as Lord, is honoring Him on earth, even if only with lips.

There were mass conversions of Christians, when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome. No doubt many were only naming Christ with their lips. However, Jesus Christ was still honored greatly, because He got the glory for overcoming the Roman pagan gods, and their religion. Naming Christ the Lord in that day was at least an open rejection of the false gods of old.

The rule also includes any Christian known as a brother or sister, that may be doing evil (1 Peter 4:15-16) (2 Thess 3:14-15). Even if Christian company must be withheld from another calling Jesus the Christ and Lord, Scripture declares we must still count them as a Christian brother or sister, and not as a non-believer nor a Christian.

And so what is the great practical lesson learned for how we treat all Christians naming Christ the Lord? It is all important in helping to restore the straying Christian, rather than push them away from the light of Christ, into outer darkness of the heathen.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Is it spiritual to restore, or to reject? To convert or to cast away? Then how does it help to restore anyone naming Christ the Lord, and yet denying Him in works, to be converted from the heart, by declaring they are not even a Christian nor believer at all?? Who seeks to restore non-believers?

This is a case, where a personal ideology about who to call Christian or not, even if trying to keep the name of Christ honorable, works against the Spirit of grace, that inspires confession of faith. We ought count as Christians anyone inspired by Christ to call Him Lord, and let the Lord deal with His own honor.

What could would it have been to tell the prodigal in the pigsty, that he not only wasn't he worthy to be called son, but in fact he was no son at all, and had no father to return to. Even the elder righteous brother at least counted him as a brother, and a son of their father:

Luk 15:29 ...But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Does this not also apply to the least honorable among us that name Christ with faith?

According to the Scripture, even if honoring the Lord only with out lips, we are still doing so by His Spirit, and have more hope of converting from the heart, than anyone cursing His name.

Calling anyone naming Christ with the lips alone, a non-believer and not a Christian at all, is saying the inspiration of the Spirit to name Jesus the Lord, is no better than than not naming Him Lord, and is worthless unto salvation.
 
Godhelpus said:
This came up in another discussion about who appears at the judgment seat of Christ. Since all Christians must appear at His seat, then who are they? I learned from it a very important lesson in how to treat Christians now on earth, as the Lord wants us to.

First, this is not about judging who is a 'real' Christian or not, nor about judging which Christians are saved or not. From (James 4:11-12), that is not for us Christians to do. We ought judge ourselves, not one another. It's only the Lord that will judge His people. (Heb 10:30)

This is strictly about who is a Christian and can be called Christian. And that is made known by the word of the Lord. In 1 Peter 4:15, the Scripture counts someone a Christian, even if doing evil. And if Scripture names someone a Christian, then they are Christians, and shall appear at Christ's judgment seat.

Anyone confessing faith in Christ, and naming Christ with faith, is a Christian believer. Only those not confessing faith nor naming His name, is a non-believer and not a Christian.

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

We see here, that only the Spirit can inspire anyone to call Jesus Lord. And no one cursing Christ can be a Christian believer. Therefore, anyone confessing faith in Christ, can only do so by the Spirit of Christ.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

It's not possible to say someone is not a Christian, and a non-believer, when the Christ Himself is inspiring the faith to call Him Lord. To say they are not a Christian and a non-believer, is to reject the Holy Ghost that inspires them to do so.

Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

The truth is, that even if we are not honoring the Lord in our works, everyone naming His name as Lord, is honoring Him on earth, even if only with lips.

There were mass conversions of Christians, when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome. No doubt many were only naming Christ with their lips. However, Jesus Christ was still honored greatly, because He got the glory for overcoming the Roman pagan gods, and their religion. Naming Christ the Lord in that day was at least an open rejection of the false gods of old.

The rule also includes any Christian known as a brother or sister, that may be doing evil (1 Peter 4:15-16) (2 Thess 3:14-15). Even if Christian company must be withheld from another calling Jesus the Christ and Lord, Scripture declares we must still count them as a Christian brother or sister, and not as a non-believer nor a Christian.

And so what is the great practical lesson learned for how we treat all Christians naming Christ the Lord? It is all important in helping to restore the straying Christian, rather than push them away from the light of Christ, into outer darkness of the heathen.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Is it spiritual to restore, or to reject? To convert or to cast away? Then how does it help to restore anyone naming Christ the Lord, and yet denying Him in works, to be converted from the heart, by declaring they are not even a Christian nor believer at all?? Who seeks to restore non-believers?

This is a case, where a personal ideology about who to call Christian or not, even if trying to keep the name of Christ honorable, works against the Spirit of grace, that inspires confession of faith. We ought count as Christians anyone inspired by Christ to call Him Lord, and let the Lord deal with His own honor.

What could would it have been to tell the prodigal in the pigsty, that he not only wasn't he worthy to be called son, but in fact he was no son at all, and had no father to return to. Even the elder righteous brother at least counted him as a brother, and a son of their father:

Luk 15:29 ...But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Does this not also apply to the least honorable among us that name Christ with faith?

According to the Scripture, even if honoring the Lord only with out lips, we are still doing so by His Spirit, and have more hope of converting from the heart, than anyone cursing His name.

Calling anyone naming Christ with the lips alone, a non-believer and not a Christian at all, is saying the inspiration of the Spirit to name Jesus the Lord, is no better than than not naming Him Lord, and is worthless unto salvation.
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Good grief brother.......do you not realize that you are saying the same old thing with a different name!
 
crossnote said:
Godhelpus, besides the title, you have asked at least 6 questions. Could you please summarize your thread into one or two main points you wish to make?
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Sure. Just keep in mind. This has nothing to do with there being Christians in deed and truth, and Christians in name only. That is not being denied here. Nor is it being denied that Christian fellowship must be withheld, if necessary due to evil works.

This is strictly about who can or can't be called a Christian on earth.

In Scripture, anyone naming Jesus Lord is called a Christian and counted as a brother. And so everyone naming Him Lord, shall appear at His judgment seat.

Any Christian ideology, that presumes to call anyone naming Christ Lord, a non-believer and not a Christian, is not from Scripture. And anyone believing and teaching that ideology, is only speaking for themselves, not for the Lord.

We have every right to forbid fellowship to any Christian denying the Lord by works. But so long as anyone is still calling Him Lord, then we have no right to deny they are Christians at all. That does not help to restore any Christian from riotous living and wicked works, but only serves to push them away even further away from the Lord and His churches on earth.
 
Godhelpus said:
We have every right to forbid fellowship to any Christian denying the Lord by works. But so long as anyone is still calling Him Lord, then we have no right to deny they are Christians at all.
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To deny fellowship is simply to exclude from whatever Church Incorporated you belong to. Since there are numerous they can go elsewhere or create their own.

To deny use of the title "Christian" is an attempt to control speech. Ain't gonna work.

All we can do is return to our corners and prepare for the next round of battle, which it seems is the only thing we universally agree on.
 
Godhelpus said:
Sure. Just keep in mind. This has nothing to do with there being Christians in deed and truth, and Christians in name only. That is not being denied here. Nor is it being denied that Christian fellowship must be withheld, if necessary due to evil works.

This is strictly about who can or can't be called a Christian on earth.

In Scripture, anyone naming Jesus Lord is called a Christian and counted as a brother. And so everyone naming Him Lord, shall appear at His judgment seat.

Any Christian ideology, that presumes to call anyone naming Christ Lord, a non-believer and not a Christian, is not from Scripture. And anyone believing and teaching that ideology, is only speaking for themselves, not for the Lord.

We have every right to forbid fellowship to any Christian denying the Lord by works. But so long as anyone is still calling Him Lord, then we have no right to deny they are Christians at all. That does not help to restore any Christian from riotous living and wicked works, but only serves to push them away even further away from the Lord and His churches on earth.
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So then.....if a man joins YOUR Oneness Pentacostal church, declares by statement of faith that he is a Christian you will accept him?

Now a week later YOU see that this same man has a business of homosexual prostitution you will still accept him as a Christian?
 
Major said:
So then.....if a man joins YOUR Oneness Pentacostal church, declares by statement of faith that he is a Christian you will accept him?

Now a week later YOU see that this same man has a business of homosexual prostitution you will still accept him as a Christian?
Click to expand...
Only God knows the identity of Christians despite what may be claimed by human beings. One thing is certain. Because being a Christian is such a personal experience between the individual and God, human beings really can't gage who is and who isn't among the Elect. We, as individuals, can know whether we are members of the Elect by the assurance the Holy Spirit gives to our spirit.

I really don't believe in being a fruit inspector, but I do believe in remaining separate from people who actively practice and espouse sin-filled lifestyles.
 
Major said:
Good grief brother.......do you not realize that you are saying the same old thing with a different name!
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Yes, but more refined as I study it more. And it's the subject of a new thread, because the important conclusion is not just about who appears at Christ's judgment seat, but more about it's affect on how we should treat all Christians that confess faith in Jesus Christ and call Him Lord, and not just the ones we 'approve'.

Jas 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

I come from a group of elitist Pentecostal Christians, that would regularly denounce any other Christian not conforming to our outward holiness standard. We wouldn't even call them Christians, much less fellowship with them as Christians naming Christ. Now, by this study and exchange, I am more convinced than ever, to never again consider anyone confessing faith in Christ, not to be a Christian nor a believer.

It also shows me how the bad strain of making such calls among us, is not just reserved for the holier-than-thou Christians. We did so severely by works, and put it to practice by saying it to their faces. But now I see, that we could also fall into that snare through ideological zeal, though never actually practice, and tell some Christians that still confess faith in Christ, that they are not a Christian, and are a non-believer.

The benefit of this teaching, at least to me, is that I can now ensure I don't do harm to anyone confessing faith in Christ, when I think that I am somehow keeping His name pure in the mouths of anyone calling Him Lord.

Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

I know this is true, because I have seen it happen. A Christian naming Christ that was not living up to His name, was beaten down a being not a Christian at all, so that they only went deeper into sin and further away from the Shepherd and body of Christ. And I was one of them.
 
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LearningToLetGo said:
To deny fellowship is simply to exclude from whatever Church Incorporated you belong to. Since there are numerous they can go elsewhere or create their own.

To deny use of the title "Christian" is an attempt to control speech. Ain't gonna work.
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I wasn't looking at it that way, but I see the point. Christian is a title exclusive to those confessing faith in Him. If we begin to exclude some people calling Him Lord from that title, when we are in effect refusing permission to use it for those we don't approve as Christians.

We can, and sometimes must, exclude Christian fellowship from someone naming Christ, but we have no right to exclude them from the title Christian itself. I know how that is, because we in our churches used to make the title Christian exclusive to ourselves alone.
 
BibleLover said:
Only God knows the identity of Christians despite what may be claimed by human beings. One thing is certain. Because being a Christian is such a personal experience between the individual and God, human beings really can't gage who is and who isn't among the Elect. We, as individuals, can know whether we are members of the Elect by the assurance the Holy Spirit gives to our spirit.

I really don't believe in being a fruit inspector, but I do believe in remaining separate from people who actively practice and espouse sin-filled lifestyles.
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I agree 100% brother.

I always hated it when church members came to me with their observations and concerns. It does place us in a position of being judgmental.

In 1984 I was asked to go to a church where the pastor and 3 deacons were involved in wife swapping. They all confessed and asked to be forgiven. The church did, and then voted to remove them from the church rolls.
 
No. Anyone claiming a false Christ is not a Christian. If someone is an unrepentant career miscreant... not a Christian. If you're under a oneness theology, youre not a Christian. You can become a Christian but you have to come to the truth.
Romans 1
Galatians 5

Now, for those who are in the truth and are journeying and growing in their walk, Yes. All believers are on a journey to sanctification.
 
cocoa said:
No. Anyone claiming a false Christ is not a Christian. If someone is an unrepentant career miscreant... not a Christian. If you're under a oneness theology, youre not a Christian. You can become a Christian but you have to come to the truth.
Romans 1
Galatians 5

Now, for those who are in the truth and are journeying and growing in their walk, Yes. All believers are on a journey to sanctification.
Click to expand...
Oneness theology is a revival of the ancient heresy of Modalism.
 
cocoa said:
No. Anyone claiming a false Christ is not a Christian. If someone is an unrepentant career miscreant... not a Christian. If you're under a oneness theology, youre not a Christian. You can become a Christian but you have to come to the truth.
Romans 1
Galatians 5

Now, for those who are in the truth and are journeying and growing in their walk, Yes. All believers are on a journey to sanctification.
Click to expand...
And a oneness theology Christian, would say a trinitarian Christian is not a Christian.

You see the conundrum of he said, she said. That's why the Scripture just calls everyone calling Jesus Lord, a Christian. And the Lord will sort out who is a Christian or not at His judgment seat.

One thing is for sure. While on earth anyone can be called a Christian, so long as we are confessing faith in Christ. But no one can possibly be called a Christian ever again, if rejected by the Lord and told to depart from Him.
 
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