What Is Hell?

[Man-ofGod]

Hi Tara,
There has been some debate over the issue of ever lasting punishment / ceasing to exist.
I think we must take on board the words of Jesus, who spoke more about hell than heaven.
I heard a story of a man who asked God for a glimpse of hell. His prayer was answered by a split second vision of hell. He gave up his job and became a door to door evangelist!! I believe it will be separation from God and eternal punishment. A good book is "How can a God of love send people to hell?" by M Benton. BUT if you are saved why worry about hell and start contemplating heaven, your most secure place in the universe kept for you now by the power of God's word. God Bless Stuart.

Dear brother,

The bible says cursed is the man that makes flesh his arm. The bible is our only rule of faith, not a mans alleged testimony about Hell.


The bible only uses the term for Hell (guyyenna--trash heap)l 13 times in the NT. The other instances Hell is used, it translates "the grave" Hades). In the old testament, the Hebrew word Sheol, always translates to "the grave".

 

[MichaelH]

I respectfully point out that this is a common misunderstanding of 1 Pet 3:19. Compare with Isa 61:1 and John 8:34.

God Bless,
MoG

Thank you Man-ofGod. I point to a few things. In Peter he preached to spirits in prison, on the 3rd day in Matt many came out of the grave with Jesus. We know Satan can take captive someone and bound them until the truth sets them free. He took the keys of Hell and death, and the promise was not to leave his soul in Hell.

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus told the thief this day you will be with me in Paradise. Paradise translated that way another time as being up after Jesus went down.

We still have those that waited on the promise of a city made by God but did not obtain the promise in Heb 11.

Abraham according to Jesus was in a part of hell fixed by a gulf, It would make sense that is where the thief followed Jesus and He got those out of there and stayed there 3 days as He said about Jonah that no sign be given but that Johna was in the belly of the fish for 3 days.

Seeing How Jesus Went to Hell, and Hell did not hold him, then it would not also hold us because death no longer has a sting and we don't have to go to hell.

I think with those scriptures one might logically conclude Jesus went to Hell having all sin laid on him, kicked the slats from underneath the devil for had they known they would not have crucified him, defeated hell and the grave for us and got his people out of there.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(Mat 27:52-53)

So, something happened and I believe Jesus went to hell, preached and brought them out who waited on the promise.

Now if you don't believe in Hell, then that is a whole other thing.

Blessings.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Thank you Man-ofGod. I point to a few things. In Peter he preached to spirits in prison, on the 3rd day in Matt many came out of the grave with Jesus. We know Satan can take captive someone and bound them until the truth sets them free. He took the keys of Hell and death, and the promise was not to leave his soul in Hell.

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus told the thief this day you will be with me in Paradise. Paradise translated that way another time as being up after Jesus went down.

We still have those that waited on the promise of a city made by God but did not obtain the promise in Heb 11.

Abraham according to Jesus was in a part of hell fixed by a gulf, It would make sense that is where the thief followed Jesus and He got those out of there and stayed there 3 days as He said about Jonah that no sign be given but that Johna was in the belly of the fish for 3 days.

Seeing How Jesus Went to Hell, and Hell did not hold him, then it would not also hold us because death no longer has a sting and we don't have to go to hell.

I think with those scriptures one might logically conclude Jesus went to Hell having all sin laid on him, kicked the slats from underneath the devil for had they known they would not have crucified him, defeated hell and the grave for us and got his people out of there.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(Mat 27:52-53)

So, something happened and I believe Jesus went to hell, preached and brought them out who waited on the promise.

Now if you don't believe in Hell, then that is a whole other thing.

Blessings.

Thanks! On Matt 27:52:53, is the assumption that only those in Hell were resurrected? Hell (hades) translates to the word grave in Acts 2:31 and Acts 2:27. When we translate those words correctly, we understand more clearly what those verses are saying. It just makes biblical sense.

The thief who "will be with" Jesus in paradise "this day" is another enigma to this doctrine as we know Jesus did not go to paradise with the thief "this day."

This one is a doozy and is one of the biggest deceptions of Satan. Hitler said if you tell a big enough lie, the people will believe it. Pagan greek philosophy has had its effect.

God Bless,
MoG

 

[MichaelH]

Thanks! On Matt 27:52:53, is the assumption that only those in Hell were resurrected? Hell (hades) translates to the word grave in Acts 2:31 and Acts 2:27. When we translate those words correctly, we understand more clearly what those verses are saying. It just makes biblical sense.

The thief who "will be with" Jesus in paradise "this day" is another enigma to this doctrine as we know Jesus did not go to paradise with the thief "this day."

God Bless,
MoG

I see, we have a "I don't believe in eternal punishment" issue which clouds the other issues. That clears it up.

blessings.

 

[Man-ofGod]

I see, we have a "I don't believe in eternal punishment" issue which clouds the other issues. That clears it up.

blessings.

I tend to see Hell as the issue clouding other issues. So the question is, which stance is biblical. Generally, the interpretation is so steeped in tradition that many people are "afraid" to think differently. After all, no one want go there. It maligns the character of God and skews biblical doctrine, even to the point of taking away from the central tenant of Christianity, Jesus sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection.

My question to you, what purpose does the doctrine of Hell serve for the believer and unbeliever? Why so much devotion to it?

God Bless,
MoG

 

[MichaelH]

I tend to see Hell as the issue clouding other issues. So the question is, which stance is biblical. Generally, the interpretation is so steeped in tradition that many people are "afraid" to think differently. After all, no one want go there. It maligns the character of God and skews biblical doctrine, even to the point of taking away from the central tenant of Christianity, Jesus sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection.

My question to you, what purpose does the doctrine of Hell serve for the believer and unbeliever? Why so much devotion to it?

God Bless,
MoG

Well, I don't think Hell maligns the Character of God. You want to talk about believers trashing the Character of God, then just attend some funerals. God took them early, God did not want to heal my daughter, God this and God that. God gave permission to the devil to murder a mans kids that served him. (Job) God never gave permission to the devil to get Job, not one time.

I suppose throwing Hell in there won't make much a difference since God gets blamed for everything anyway.

I don't like the concept of Hell, but with Scriptures saying God did not leave his soul in Hell and the concept of eternal punishment being clear then I just can't erase it.

I also would have to make up stuff about trash fires that burn forever and Say Jesus lied when he Quoted Abraham word for word and change the Greek Word Aionios to something else but an Adjective then I would have to change the doctrine of Eternal life also.
why go through all that to erase hell? Believers are going to blame God for everything else in their lives, what is throwing in hell going to matter?

If God had some type of pick and choose election then I could see why Hell is such a bad concept. Hell is easy to avoid, but some election would not be avoidable. Since there is no such thing as Election of those that get saved, then I don't think Hell is that big of a deal.

I personally don't use Hell, I use how God is good and wants to help. He that is loved much also loves much, I don't think the fires of hell change anyone's mind but through fear. You find that fear does not hold long.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Well, I don't think Hell maligns the Character of God. You want to talk about believers trashing the Character of God, then just attend some funerals. God took them early, God did not want to heal my daughter, God this and God that. God gave permission to the devil to murder a mans kids that served him. (Job) God never gave permission to the devil to get Job, not one time.

I suppose throwing Hell in there won't make much a difference since God gets blamed for everything anyway.

I don't like the concept of Hell, but with Scriptures saying God did not leave his soul in Hell and the concept of eternal punishment being clear then I just can't erase it.

I also would have to make up stuff about trash fires that burn forever and Say Jesus lied when he Quoted Abraham word for word and change the Greek Word Aionios to something else but an Adjective then I would have to change the doctrine of Eternal life also.
why go through all that to erase hell? Believers are going to blame God for everything else in their lives, what is throwing in hell going to matter?

If God had some type of pick and choose election then I could see why Hell is such a bad concept. Hell is easy to avoid, but some election would not be avoidable. Since there is no such thing as Election of those that get saved, then I don't think Hell is that big of a deal.

I personally don't use Hell, I use how God is good and wants to help. He that is loved much also loves much, I don't think the fires of hell change anyone's mind but through fear. You find that fear does not hold long.

Good questions and good points. For the record, my perspective has little to do with what I want the bible to say verses what I believe it actually says. We definitely cannot go by our feelings or fears.. it has to be a thus saith the Lord. I also agree that fear does not hold long at all, in fact it a lot of cases it has the opposite effect. You mentioned a few things. 1.) Burning forever 2.) Aninios - or eternal. What verses did you have in mind that seemingly teach the doctrine of eternal hell?

You have seen me post before and we respect each other, and I think you understand that my perspective is that we let the bible speak for itself. Therefore, if I err, I will be the first to recant my position but as Martin Luther said, I cannot violate my conscience and will only recant if I can be convinced by cogent rational thoughts from scripture. As a protestant, I believe you share the same mindset. My question is, what are your thoughts on Gen 19:24 and Jude 1:7?

 

[MichaelH]

Good questions and good points. For the record, my perspective has little to do with what I want the bible to say verses what I believe it actually says. We definitely cannot go by our feelings or fears.. it has to be a thus saith the Lord. I also agree that fear does not hold long at all, in fact it a lot of cases it has the opposite effect. You mentioned a few things. 1.) Burning forever 2.) Aninios - or eternal. What verses did you have in mind that seemingly teach the doctrine of eternal hell?

You have seen me post before and we respect each other, and I think you understand that my perspective is that we let the bible speak for itself. Therefore, if I err, I will be the first to recant my position but as Martin Luther said, I cannot violate my conscience and will only recant if I can be convinced by cogent rational thoughts from scripture. As a protestant, I believe you share the same mindset. My question is, what are your thoughts on Gen 19:24 and Jude 1:7?

Thank you Brother. What are we going to do? If you ever debated Eternal punishment in Hell then you run into the same arguments.
I examine the Word also wanting to know concept. Is the concept a place where the ungodly go?

I see the concept, but then do I see it because the way the Word was translated? In Rev Ies Aion Aion is a Greek expression for age after age never ending.

Aionious a Greek Adjective continues forever unless defined by the article.
No aionious Life then No Aionious punishment.

The thing That I ask though when reading someone thoughts on something is..

1) Do they have scripture?
You would be surprised what people believe around here and zero scriptures.

2) Is it plain? Or do I have to hunt customs and traditions to find some obscure meaning. I am not a fan of Hermeneutics.

3) How much Greek and Hebrew do we need and does it break concept?

I have heard every single argument about there not being a hell where people get punished but it does not cover all the scriptures. Jesus soul was not left him Hell, meaning he went to hell. The place of the dead.

My biggest issue though is Jesus telling us about Abraham. A Jewish parable they say. The problem I have with it is that unlike all other Parables Jesus mentions Abraham and quotes him. If Jesus made that up and Abraham was not in hell then Jesus committed perjury. I would not get past believing Jesus would ever do that.

We can talk about the Valley of Himmon or whatever it's called and the trash fire, but it will end with what some think to be a parable and Jesus quoted the man and put the man in a place. Unlike all other parables.

I hope you understand Brother. I take the Word very literal.

your blessed.

 

[Man-ofGod]

Thank you Brother. What are we going to do? If you ever debated Eternal punishment in Hell then you run into the same arguments.
I examine the Word also wanting to know concept. Is the concept a place where the ungodly go?

I see the concept, but then do I see it because the way the Word was translated? In Rev Ies Aion Aion is a Greek expression for age after age never ending.

Aionious a Greek Adjective continues forever unless defined by the article.
No aionious Life then No Aionious punishment.

The thing That I ask though when reading someone thoughts on something is..

1) Do they have scripture?
You would be surprised what people believe around here and zero scriptures.

2) Is it plain? Or do I have to hunt customs and traditions to find some obscure meaning. I am not a fan of Hermeneutics.

3) How much Greek and Hebrew do we need and does it break concept?

I have heard every single argument about there not being a hell where people get punished but it does not cover all the scriptures. Jesus soul was not left him Hell, meaning he went to hell. The place of the dead.

My biggest issue though is Jesus telling us about Abraham. A Jewish parable they say. The problem I have with it is that unlike all other Parables Jesus mentions Abraham and quotes him. If Jesus made that up and Abraham was not in hell then Jesus committed perjury. I would not get past believing Jesus would ever do that.

We can talk about the Valley of Himmon or whatever it's called and the trash fire, but it will end with what some think to be a parable and Jesus quoted the man and put the man in a place. Unlike all other parables.

I hope you understand Brother. I take the Word very literal.

your blessed.

Thank you,

In context, certain parts warrant a literal understanding, while in other places we must have spiritual discernment. For an obvious example, Jesus spoke in parables which by their very nature are not meant to be taken literal but call us to seek a deeper understanding. With that said, we must collect all scripture on the subject not leaving one out to formulate our doctrine. Therefore, there can be absolutely no contradiction in the text. Nothing that "cannot be explained" as far as "biblical contradictions" go. I believe, there are many things about eternal torment in Hell that contradict Gods word and basic human reasoning. But when I apply this same principal to eternal destruction, I do not see any contradictions at all. Bold statement? Perhaps, if it was not true. But God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33).

God Bless,
MoG

 

[MichaelH]

Thank you,

In context, certain parts warrant a literal understanding, while in other places we must have spiritual discernment. For an obvious example, Jesus spoke in parables which by their very nature are not meant to be taken literal but call us to seek a deeper understanding. With that said, we must collect all scripture on the subject not leaving one out to formulate our doctrine. Therefore, there can be absolutely no contradiction in the text. (1 Cor 14:33).

God Bless,
MoG

You right, compare all parables and examine them carefully.

We then can conclude Jesus actually used Abrahams name and gave a name of a real place. By ever other parable he never did that one other time. Then Jesus quoted Abraham word for word, saying Abraham said. No other parable is like this at all.

That is great advice Man of God, I agree. Also we know Jesus would never misrepresent someone, or say they said something they did not. Just more evidence after looking at all the other parables.

Hell is real, and eternal.

Blessings.