What is Religion?

[LearningToLetGo]

As far as I can tell there are two ways to define a religion. The first is what the preachers preach and the second is what the disciples believe.

What do we do when the two are not the same? In other words, what do we do when the average person believes something other than what is preached?

 

[Musicmaster]

Uh, oh. And all along I've been telling people that I don't have a religious bone in my body...

The paleontological definition of religion are the following seven criteria:

Ritual
Experiential (emotional)
Mythological (narrative)
Doctrinal (philosophical)
Ethical (legal)
Institutional (social)
Material

The reason I disregard anyone foisting upon true Christianity the designation as a religion is because its a relationship with the One who created us in His very image. That doesn't fit in with those seven secular points.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

As far as I can tell there are two ways to define a religion. The first is what the preachers preach and the second is what the disciples believe. What do we do when the two are not the same? In other words, what do we do when the average person believes something other than what is preached?

Hello, LearningToLetGo;

Good questions.

At Church this morning a good friend of ours delivered the message similar to your questions. I'd like to respond with the notes I took from his sermon.

A disciple is a follower of Jesus all the way and has ears to listen and apply what is preached, beyond merely observing. *

Religion loves appearance. Jesus loves the heart.

Religion has the green light to criticize others. Pharisees are the religious leaders (today's false teachers) who love eyewitnesses and hearers who find them appealing.

Religion commands to walk their way.

Jesus is The Way.

* The disciple's observation has to arrive at a conclusion.

God bless you, brother.

Bob

 

[LearningToLetGo]

If we have a religion where the preacher says one thing but the parishioners believe something else, who best describes the religion? Is it the preacher who is wrong or are the parishioners wrong? In other words, who is the steward of the faith, the church leadership or the masses who believe?

 

[Prim90]

Every bone in my body be religious. Actually all of me I do think. We all be religious simply because there is a void within us all that only God can fill. Sadly many choose to fill that vacuum with a multitude of other gods or a multitude of other material obsessions or of themselves.

 

[Musicmaster]

If we have a religion where the preacher says one thing but the parishioners believe something else, who best describes the religion? Is it the preacher who is wrong or are the parishioners wrong? In other words, who is the steward of the faith, the church leadership or the masses who believe?

Your question is fundamentally flawed, because there is only one Truth, therefore only one source for absolute Truth, and we have access to Him to ask of Him and His Truth. Jesus IS Truth, and we are instructed:

1 John 2:26-27
26 These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is so hard for so many to grasp because of the tendency to see others as sources for truth:

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Do you now see the true path for Truth? Every one of those ministers and those people sitting under him are liars by comparison. We who seek Truth in all its purity must ultimately seek the Truth Himself so that we THEN become infused with the purity of Him in the place of all other that we have received through the fallen nature and other fallen people.

We can still listen to, and love those who minister to us and others, doing the best they can, but OUR responsibility in maturity is to seek ULTIMATE Truth, who is a Person, not a collection of right and proper doctrines and creeds. The RCC has graven images mere men carved from stone on the pedestals of their cathedrals, one of whom is supposed to be the image of John, the very one who was inspired to write to us to seek the Lord for Truth, in that we don't need mere men to teach us at the level of what can only come from Deity.

I suspect this will be seen as unsatisfying to some or most, which I hope will drive those who see it as such to study it all further. We are called to love one another, not believe what each other tries to teach his neighbor. We are called to be as the Bereans; to search the scriptures for ALL that we hear from men, to see if it be true or false.

MM

 

[Big Moose]

If we have a religion where the preacher says one thing but the parishioners believe something else, who best describes the religion? Is it the preacher who is wrong or are the parishioners wrong? In other words, who is the steward of the faith, the church leadership or the masses who believe?

This is a great question. This seems exclusively directed at Christianity. So I will go with it as the intended direction.
In the Catholic and Anglican churches, the leadership defines what is right and what is wrong. But as we see with American politicians who are Catholic, many of them stand for things directly at odds with the Catholic Church. But don't you dare question their faith! lol

Protestant churches have the legacy of the parishioners who are leaders of individual churches as the definers of their religion. All these "definers" are supposed to be being led by the Holy Spirit. But as we are seeing today, politics is affecting and infecting the decisions made by religious "definers" and/or leaders. The definition for politics I am using is, "the total complex of relations between people living in society". How these people want to order society is how they are using their pedestals of religious authority.

Generally, Protestant churches have a preacher and the support of a like-minded group within a church who are the decision makers and the definers of the religion. The good thing about Protestantism is you have a wide variety of churches to choose from. So if you are truly lead by the Holy Spirit, there should be a few churches out there who do a reasonable job of adhering to God's word.

 

[bobinfaith]

Every bone in my body be religious. Actually all of me I do think. We all be religious simply because there is a void within us all that only God can fill. Sadly many choose to fill that vacuum with a multitude of other gods or a multitude of other material obsessions or of themselves.

Hello brothers and sisters;

After reading Prim90's post I have questions that may help me understand.

What Prim90 wrote, "every bone in my body is religious and we are religious" do this mean we worship God in so many other ways that can be considered religion? Or, are there other interests in our lives that become religion, making God second?

I desire and strive to live the life of Christ's disciple making Him first.

But when I go out to eat with my wife or friends, see a matinee once a month, attend a Shen Yun performance, or travel to another state I don't consider that religious. I call this recreational entertainment that God permits me away from ministry. These fill the void in my life away from the challenges of ministry. It's ok to take a break and have fun but that's not considered religion.

When we worship God at Church, Bible study or outreach ministry God also fills those voids with continued growth in our daily walk with Christ.

Personally, I love to attend Church. But people I know in my family, community and here at Christian Forum Site don't attend Church. There are reasons between them and God. One day my brother or sister will find a Church led by God so I keep praying.

It would be Pharisaic for me to to judge /question or scold others who aren't going to Church. To me that is a behavior of religion.

God bless you, Prim90, and everyone.

Bob

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello brothers and sisters;

After reading Prim90's post I have questions that may help me understand.

What Prim90 wrote, "every bone in my body is religious and we are religious" do this mean we worship God in so many other ways that can be considered religion? Or, are there other interests in our lives that become religion, making God second?

I desire and strive to live the life of Christ's disciple making Him first.

But when I go out to eat with my wife or friends, see a matinee once a month, attend a Shen Yun performance, or travel to another state I don't consider that religious. I call this recreational entertainment that God permits me away from ministry. These fill the void in my life away from the challenges of ministry. It's ok to take a break and have fun but that's not considered religion.

When we worship God at Church, Bible study or outreach ministry God also fills those voids with continued growth in our daily walk with Christ.

Personally, I love to attend Church. But people I know in my family, community and here at Christian Forum Site don't attend Church. There are reasons between them and God. One day my brother or sister will find a Church led by God so I keep praying.

It would be Pharisaic for me to to judge /question or scold others who aren't going to Church. To me that is a behavior of religion.

God bless you, Prim90, and everyone.

Bob

That was a good way of putting the question to this topic. My mother was not a religion, and I believe in her existence and instructions to me that originated from...Jesus, who also really existed, and so therefore my belief in Him is not a religious belief.

I don't think Prim understands the negative connotation that the term "religion" has gained for itself in the West, because there are pagans all over the world who are religious...meaning that anyone can be religious, and therefore religion will not save anyone.

MM

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Your question is fundamentally flawed, because there is only one Truth

I'm asking about religion, not truth. Essentially it's a question of speaker and hearer. If the hearer hears something other than what was spoken then where is the meaning? Does meaning lie in what was said, or what was heard?

 

[forgiven61]

I'm asking about religion, not truth. Essentially it's a question of speaker and hearer. If the hearer hears something other than what was spoken then where is the meaning? Does meaning lie in what was said, or what was heard?

when i hear the word religion i think of going through the motions . pomp and circumstances . in scripture james tells us James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Got questions uses this term and i think its fairly close to what james is writing

“Pure and undefiled religion” happens when believers take care of the less fortunate and strive for personal purity. The right kind of religious practice involves helping those who cannot help themselves (and who cannot pay you back).

in james 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
btw your question is not flawed .


me personally i am not religious but in a relationship with CHRIST . that is me

Does meaning lie in what was said, or what was heard?

from reading james pure and undefiled religion is a action something we do from the heart.

when a person goes to the Hospital for pre admittance they ask what religion preference i always say forgiven .actually i only had that asked once.


one other look at the word religion acts 17 :
Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. { religious }

23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

32And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

 

[Big Moose]

I'm asking about religion, not truth. Essentially it's a question of speaker and hearer. If the hearer hears something other than what was spoken then where is the meaning? Does meaning lie in what was said, or what was heard?

Here is an exercise for your brain. Contemplate what it would take to start your own religion. First you need a deity. You could make it the one true God and just give Him a different name, the way Islam did and change the attributes of the Jewish/Christian God. Or you could make one up or use mythological ones from Greek or Roman culture. So now you have a deity. You will need to make a set of rules to follow since gods tend to have those. Then you will need to have a reason why your god is special to justify to others why they need to follow those rules.

By this point you are discovering what religion is and how it functions and who decides what becomes the "truth" of the religion.

 

[Musicmaster]

Here is an exercise for your brain. Contemplate what it would take to start your own religion. First you need a deity. You could make it the one true God and just give Him a different name, the way Islam did and change the attributes of the Jewish/Christian God. Or you could make one up or use mythological ones from Greek or Roman culture. So now you have a deity. You will need to make a set of rules to follow since gods tend to have those. Then you will need to have a reason why your god is special to justify to others why they need to follow those rules.

By this point you are discovering what religion is and how it functions and who decides what becomes the "truth" of the religion.

Actually, muhammed adopted a desert nomad god that was the moon god in those ancient times, and he destroyed the images of all the other gods those nomads worshipped. That god had nothing whatsoever to do with the God of Abraham. The crescent moon symbol of islam is only one of many evidences for the pagan origins of their god. Abraham had no such symbiology in reference to the God of the Bible.

MM

 

[Big Moose]

Actually, muhammed adopted a desert nomad god that was the moon god in those ancient times, and he destroyed the images of all the other gods those nomads worshipped. That god had nothing whatsoever to do with the God of Abraham. The crescent moon symbol of islam is only one of many evidences for the pagan origins of their god. Abraham had no such symbiology in reference to the God of the Bible.

MM

Isn't muhammed claiming Ishmael as the heir to the promises to Abraham? They do claim Abraham as the father of their religion, do they not?

 

[Musicmaster]

Isn't muhammed claiming Ishmael as the heir to the promises to Abraham? They do claim Abraham as the father of their religion, do they not?

They do indeed claim Abraham is the father of their religion, but history and theology prove otherwise. The very character differences between the God of Abraham and the god of islam are vastly different. They are not at all comparable.

MM

 

[Big Moose]

They do indeed claim Abraham is the father of their religion, but history and theology prove otherwise. The very character differences between the God of Abraham and the god of islam are vastly different. They are not at all comparable.

MM

I agree. It seems to me that muhammed took what he wanted from the Jewish scriptures to create a religion he could use to get his people to rise up against the Jews. He saw Abraham's first son as an ancestor of Arabs and used this as an obvious rival to make conflict. It becomes apparent a demonic type of inspiration.

 

[Prim90]

Hello brothers and sisters;

After reading Prim90's post I have questions that may help me understand.

What Prim90 wrote, "every bone in my body is religious and we are religious" do this mean we worship God in so many other ways that can be considered religion? Or, are there other interests in our lives that become religion, making God second?

I desire and strive to live the life of Christ's disciple making Him first.

But when I go out to eat with my wife or friends, see a matinee once a month, attend a Shen Yun performance, or travel to another state I don't consider that religious. I call this recreational entertainment that God permits me away from ministry. These fill the void in my life away from the challenges of ministry. It's ok to take a break and have fun but that's not considered religion.

When we worship God at Church, Bible study or outreach ministry God also fills those voids with continued growth in our daily walk with Christ.

Personally, I love to attend Church. But people I know in my family, community and here at Christian Forum Site don't attend Church. There are reasons between them and God. One day my brother or sister will find a Church led by God so I keep praying.

It would be Pharisaic for me to to judge /question or scold others who aren't going to Church. To me that is a behavior of religion.

God bless you, Prim90, and everyone.

Bob

Bob Hou r yuu I hope you well. Bob yes of course there be nothing wrong with enjoying the many cultural diversities and the many blessings that modern day society offers us. I was getting more to the point that humanity was originally meant to worship God. And within every human there be a void that the God can only fill when it comes down to seeking out the pursuit of contentment and happiness sadly a vast majority who deny or reject the one true God. Even ourselves as Christians try and fill that void sometimes with so many other things which are only temporary fixes that can never bring eternal happiness as God can. Bob continue to enjoy the things you enjoy with a clear conscience unless the Holy Spirit or scripture convict you otherwise.

 

[Prim90]

That was a good way of putting the question to this topic. My mother was not a religion, and I believe in her existence and instructions to me that originated from...Jesus, who also really existed, and so therefore my belief in Him is not a religious belief.

I don't think Prim understands the negative connotation that the term "religion" has gained for itself in the West, because there are pagans all over the world who are religious...meaning that anyone can be religious, and therefore religion will not save anyone.

MM

MM I fully understand the negative connotations that the term religion brings to the table for many . But does that negative outlook determine and banish the word and meaning of religion to oblivion?. And what of the positive connotations of the word RElIGION. Yes what does the word actually mean ? Well let’s have a look. ( Religion meaning ; 1 In service and worship of God. ( 2 Religion meaning a personal set or institutionalised system of religious attitudes, beliefs and practices.) So it’s simply a matter of what we determine is correct within the world of religion and actually nothing wrong with the actual word religion. My thoughts anyway when reflecting upon the actual word religion.

 

[Musicmaster]

MM I fully understand the negative connotations that the term religion brings to the table for many . But does that negative outlook determine and banish the word and meaning of religion to oblivion?. And what of the positive connotations of the word RElIGION. Yes what does the word actually mean ? Well let’s have a look. ( Religion meaning ; 1 In service and worship of God. ( 2 Religion meaning a personal set or institutionalised system of religious attitudes, beliefs and practices.) So it’s simply a matter of what we determine is correct within the world of religion and actually nothing wrong with the actual word religion. My thoughts anyway when reflecting upon the actual word religion.

Prim, what really is at issue with my thinking in relation to the term "religion" is that the term itself is a poor substitute for the words that actually describe what relationship with, and faith in, Christ. Anyone can be religious, but never do we apply the term "religion" to our relationships with our parents or our spouse, so why would we apply that term to faith in Christ...the very One who created the parents and spouse we know and love without relegating them to some lower descriptor known as "religion?"

I love my wife...not religiously, but realistically, just as I love the Lord in the manner scripture prescribes...or at least, try.

MM

 

[Prim90]

That was a good way of putting the question to this topic. My mother was not a religion, and I believe in her existence and instructions to me that originated from...Jesus, who also really existed, and so therefore my belief in Him is not a religious belief.

I don't think Prim understands the negative connotation that the term "religion" has gained for itself in the West, because there are pagans all over the world who are religious...meaning that anyone can be religious, and therefore religion will not save anyone.

Prim, what really is at issue with my thinking in relation to the term "religion" is that the term itself is a poor substitute for the words that actually describe what relationship with, and faith in, Christ. Anyone can be religious, but never do we apply the term "religion" to our relationships with our parents or our spouse, so why would we apply that term to faith in Christ...the very One who created the parents and spouse we know and love without relegating them to some lower descriptor known as "religion?"

I love my wife...not religiously, but realistically, just as I love the Lord in the manner scripture prescribes...or at least, try.

MM

in no way inferior.

MM in one respect you be right in respect to the way we love our spouse which is both spiritually and physically. But even than a family can be known as a very religious family. Where as our religious well being is a spiritual matter and does not rely on a physical relationship or our physical well being. The meaning of religion be what it be a deep spiritual devotion to God. You be wrong to claim that the word religion or religious is a poor or inferior substitute.

Now I’m not entirely sure of which words you think are more superior or better placed than religious. Perhaps Christian, Saved , Born again, sanctified etc. I have no problem with any of those words . But at the same time I know full well if the fruit of the Spirit isn’t there then it is not the words that are inferior of their meanings. But only the people who lay claim to the words and who are not as they claim. MM It be they who have the failing and not the actual words . And so it is the same with the word religion or religious the word religion or religious is in no way inferior. Guess we would have to disagree.