What Makes The Church At Laodicea Lukewarm?

Rusty said:
Right...So the Laodicean church members would instantly relate to His allusion, right. It's doubtful they were in all ophthalmologists....but the famous eye healing school was in that city.

Now notice this: He is saying that they need to "buy of Me", all these symbolic things: why "buy"?
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I'm unsure. Christ is the spiritual and is the only coin that's worth anything?
 
Dirtyrottensinner said:
I think TalkJesus was seeking 'reasons' why a church would be considered 'lukewarm' in God's eyes...

He seemed to be relating his point to wealth> AKA: Money (mammon?)
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More like being high-minded because of wealth that they feel they do not need God. Such love & worship towards Him would be in vain as they speak more about what the church is doing and who they are as a church than they are about testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son as our hope rests in Him for all things of Whom we give thanks.

If a church frowns on those not giving nor keeping up with the tithings, then that is an indicator that when members do keep up with it, the church is more likely to have the attitude that they are rich and have need of nothing.... from God. IMO
 
Rusty said:
Perhaps you assume I do not love because I question your positions. That is a sad attitude to take. Do you think that your advice is "loving"?

Do only those that agree with you love you, in your eyes?

As to the Song of Solomon: you used it allegorically, whether it is a real story (I would like you to prove that) or what it is....a type/ anti-type lesson that even you applied to the Church.... To me, nothing in the Bible is without moral purpose, and the Song of Solomon, read without this allegorical lesson, is just a love story. Of doubtful worth if that is all it is. If you look at it literally, the word's "God" and "Lord" are not even there.

Orthodox Jewish rabbi's never teach from it due to it's perceived soft pornographic depictions.
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Mr. Darby said:
Drawing a lesson from an event is not exactly the same thing as an allegory. But, you do not seem to even understand what literal interpretation is. Or, perhaps you just like setting up straw man arguments. Or, you are just an internet troll. One thing is certain though, if you think I will give you the satisfaction of engaging in endless arguments with you, then you are sadly mistaken. You can read my posts and accept, reject, or criticize them as you please. It is up to you.
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Thank you for your attention. On the with the topic now.
 
You mean how everyone is setting up their own 'camp' and not inviting anyone in? It makes church real attractive to unbelievers when they don't feel welcome and when they see interdenominational infighting. No wonder people stay home and watch football....

In a way I envy you missionary type folks-on the other hand it scares me to death! (And I know it shouldn't) I suppose it could be a lack of faith on my part?

That being said-yes-it always is a heart issue when it comes to the mind of Christ. Even with tithing-if your heart is right, and your faith is right, your tithe will be right (or at least really close). I don't think God has need for our money or things, it is an obedience issue: you either obey-or you don't. And we cripple ourselves and the Church mission when we don't. It's not about coughing up money to God (though there is a need), it's about being stewards/ambassadors/servants/princes/children of the Lord. We should feel honored to give that 10% back to the lord-it's all His anyway...

but seeing as how we are dirty rotten sinners and all... :D
 
Silk said:
All of my love.
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1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

I truly wonder if that is the eyesalve for doing away with being lukewarm.

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;

It is written that it wasn't because they were lacking love, but because they were saying that they were rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing.

To which I would say that the eyesalve or the solution would be the countermeasure to steer clear of that mindset of ever saying that, because it sounds like to me that this church does not need anything from God after having placed their well being, prosperity in ministering, and security in riches.

Kind of like ignoring the Provider and being thankless and thus lukewarm towards Him.
 
Talks Posts: 1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

I truly wonder if that is the eyesalve for doing away with being lukewarm.

That would, indeed, be my guess.
 
Silk said:
I'm unsure. Christ is the spiritual and is the only coin that's worth anything?
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This church felt as if they needed nothing. Yet they were poor. It is a literal church destroyed by the Muslims in the middle ages and is now a pile of ruins. They made eye ointment to help others but could not help themselves. It seems to me that the greatest boasters and the conseited are often the worset of us all.

"Annoint with eyeslave" indicates hoileness so that they will be awakened and that they might see the love which they should have for Christ and the hatred they should have for sin.

That would end their lukewarmness!
 
Silk said:
Talks Posts: 1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

I truly wonder if that is the eyesalve for doing away with being lukewarm.

That would, indeed, be my guess.
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I reckon if you asked the church what they are thankful to Him for, then you could believe that they love Him.

But if the church frowns on those not giving at all, then you have to wonder if their thankfulness matches up with their faith in His Providence to truly mean what they say about what they are loving Him for.
 
Rusty said:
Again: I suggest that the problem was not material riches, but spiritual self-satisfaction, or what Jesus aked them to buy from Him would NOT have been about eyesight, the key to the verses. Wealthy folks have just as good or bad physical eyesight as the poor.

This should be understood like parables are understood: symbolic language to teach spiritual truths.
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And I wasn't saying different because I believe you are correct. Talks was equating love with "eyesalve" or the treatment to "cure" "lukewarm".
 
Rusty said:
Again: I suggest that the problem was not material riches, but spiritual self-satisfaction, or what Jesus aked them to buy from Him would NOT have been about eyesight, the key to the verses. Wealthy folks have just as good or bad physical eyesight as the poor.

This should be understood like parables are understood: symbolic language to teach spiritual truths.
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I know having riches is not the problem. I believe it is the poor attitude derived from those riches is the problem.

Proverbs 30:7 Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: 8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: 9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

We know that being rich is not a sin because there is such a thing as rich believers, but can this charge be also given to churches?

1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

It is trusting riches more than God that makes a believer's love towards Him as lukewarm, needing nothing from Him.
 
Rusty said:
Of course, TJ....But the message to the Laodiceans MUST (IMO) be about the "buy of Me..." part...not the monetary status of those long dead people. The focus is all wrong, I think.
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Well to the solution being "buy of Me" would suggest they were not looking to God in the first place, but by buying from Him, they are to be looking for provisions from Him, thereby not putting their trust in money any more that they would deny Him.
 
Well, one can say in an atmosphere like that where serving mammon can become that temptation instead of serving God, it can be a mentality that was present in that church that they needed nothing from God as they put their trust in uncertain riches.
 
I wasn't referring to loosening up their bank account. I was referring to trusting their future on uncertain riches wherein they would deny God and deny needing anything from Him.

I did cite an example for the church to be doing and that is doing away from expected tithings and keeping up of pledges of givings from members by trusting God to raise up cheerful givers as a work that shows their faith in His Providence.
 
That was just an example of "buying of Me" by looking to Him to provide instead of resting in the laurels of the expected tithings & pledges of givings from members of the congregation.

When a church do away with tithing & pledges of giving, they are acknowledging their dependence for God to raise up cheerful givers. As the church sets that example as a whole, the individual members of the church are more than likely to go home each Sundat to have that same kind of dependence on God to provide for them for the rest of the week.
 
I know, but seeing how it was my thread to begin with, it seems apt to apply the message by an example for the church today to heed.

You & Silk applied it to a different arena whereas I had applied it a more practical application for a church to show faith in His Providence by their example and thus avoiding having a church ever saying "I am rich and have need of nothing".
 
Rusty said:
That may be so....However I think we are at liberty to question that application, which is the traditional interpretation I actually heard since my first day in Church.

Part of being a forum, IMO, is sharing different understandings on OPs, not just passive agreemnet.
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I expect different responses. Just not sure how practical it is today when the church does not show faith in His Providence when by their example, is why America has been trying to remove "In God We Trust" from our currency.

The live TV christian ministries are no help either.
 
Rusty said:
Hey! Around here, I don't think you can count on your "expectations" to be met when you start a thread.

As far as American concerns: keep in mind, this is a very international forum, so some of us have no idea what the big deal is. Are you all upset that Australia has an atheist Prime Minister? I didn't think so...
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Thanks for the reminder.

I expect USA and the entire Western Hemisphere to get nuked and laid waste for that one third of the earth to be burned up after the pre tribulational rapture in order for the prophesy of the armies from the world, Russia, China, Persia & others to be around to gather at Armegeddon at the end of the great tribulation to meet Christ when He returns with the raptured saints to come true.

There are other expectations, but I have little for this forum now so I should not be disappointed easily. Not at all.
 
Rusty said:
Not sure how that links up with your OP at all...But whatever...
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We are referring to the church at Laodicea in Revelations and so the overall picture is God addressing each of those seven churches to prepare themselves, five were to correct themselves by repentance and two were exhorted to hold fast or else suffer the consequences when God comes to judge His House at the pre tribulational rapture event.
 
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