What must a Christian believe?

That is the tricky thing. But look at it this way, does a person need to believe what the Bible says, or believe that the Bible is infallible.

Could someone pick and choose scripture and happen to choose all the right scripture necessary for salvation? I think so.

IMO inspiration of scripture is a theological fact but not an article of faith.

While I would say that our salvation comes from believing in Christ (and I use "believe" as a loaded word), it is through the Scriptures that we come to understand what it is we believe and why. Even for non-Sola Scriptura people like myself, we recognize every part of the Bible as being 100% inspired by God. The early Christians who didn't have a canonized book yet, access to the Scriptures, or ability to read, they were taught through authority on what the Scriptures said. One's faith continues on to what is God's Word.
 
I am reluctant to continue this conversation with you. It seems to me that several people are telling you that they do not understand what you are trying to say and you can add me to that group. You seem to be a wonderful person but I do not like the idea of anyone suggesting what can and can not be considered as an accetable topic of conversation especially when it is phrased in the form of a "warning" and not a polite suggestion.

Maybe I understod you wrong but Your coment was.......
"but I don't like discussing the personal life of St. Mary. Just when you posting think, "would I post this if I were talking about Godspell's mother." If it seems offensive then just tread carefully."

No one consideres Mary with more respect than do I. You have never heard or read any thing from me to the contrary and I do not find it necessay to be warned about such things.

So then......I will leave you with your extensive studies and withdraw and allow the others here to speak with you.

God bless you .

Major, it is fine, I'm not trying to warn you. I'm just asking that you avoid treading into any personalistic discussion about Mary. This is why I don't ever discuss the doctrine of perpetual virginity. There is no way to discuss such a topic without unduly intruding into the personal life, and saints, even the Mother of God, deserves her privacy. Which is why I asked simply that when discussing her, limit it to theology and speak of her like you would your mother.
 
So to be a Christian; one must believe in the trinity? Could someone please post some scripture concerning this. And I don't mean 1Jn 5:7-8 which was alteredt from the original text. Thank you.

Sorry, ninja edit. *wink*
 
So to be a Christian; one must believe in the trinity? Could someone please post some scripture concerning this. And I don't mean 1Jn 5:7-8 which was alteredt from the original text. Thank you.

Sorry, ninja edit. *wink*

The command baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Aside from that it is also by far the oldest theological doctrine.

Having an perfect understanding of it is not necessary as long as one does not disparage any of the persons. Each are infinite and godly and together they are one God. The mystery from that is irrelevant. As long as you use that as the standard.
 
It wouldn't be in scripture.

1 John 5:7-8Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
7 There are three witnesses — 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood — and these three are in agreement.

1 John 5:7-8King James Version (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
 
The command baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Aside from that it is also by far the oldest theological doctrine.

Having an perfect understanding of it is not necessary as long as one does not disparage any of the persons. Each are infinite and godly and together they are one God. The mystery from that is irrelevant. As long as you use that as the standard.

I believe in God, the Great I Am, Ancient of Old, and the Word, Who became Messiah Jesus. Further more, I believe that when They, God or Jesus, exercise Their power, it's like a projection of Their Spirit. I just Don't believe the Holy Spirit is a complete third entity.

Please forgive mu edit
 
The command baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Aside from that it is also by far the oldest theological doctrine.

Having an perfect understanding of it is not necessary as long as one does not disparage any of the persons. Each are infinite and godly and together they are one God. The mystery from that is irrelevant. As long as you use that as the standard.

Theological(Theologian)- That's where error enters in. Add 'man' and sooner, or in this case, much later, he(man) will bring it to ruination.
 
I believe in God, the Great I Am, Ancient of Old, and the Word, Who became Messiah Jesus. Further more, I believe that when They, God or Jesus, exercise Their power, it's like a projection of Their Spirit. I just Don't believe the Holy Spirit is a complete third entity.

Please forgive mu edit

Of course you can believe that but why then would Jesus go through all the time to say 'and the Holy Spirit' in the baptismal formula if the Spirit was not a distinguished hypostasis or persona?
 
I believe in God, the Great I Am, Ancient of Old, and the Word, Who became Messiah Jesus. Further more, I believe that when They, God or Jesus, exercise Their power, it's like a projection of Their Spirit. I just Don't believe the Holy Spirit is a complete third entity.

Please forgive mu edit
I would recommend studying some of the theology behind the Trinity. The divinity of Christ had been the most tricky subject but since it sounds like your more of a binitarian confused about the role of the Holy Spirit try looking into the Nicene definition or Anathesian rather than just outright rejecting it.
 
Use the word of God to answer your dogmatic questions: are there three, two, one or none?

"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).​

This verse shows the Father speaking, the Son being baptized, and the Spirit descending.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).​

The Trinity: Revealed in salutations

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:..." (1 Peter 1:2).

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Cor 13:14).​

The Trinity in the Resurrection

(1) The Father raised the Lord Jesus

"Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities" (Acts 3:26).

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10).​

(2) The Lord Jesus raised Himself

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up....But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19,21).​

(3) The Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).​

The previous verses show that the Father raised the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus. The Trinity is shown in the resurrection.

I have a really hard time when people don't believe the word of God. See, without the word of God you wouldn't even know about the One true God let alone anything about Him. Yet, at the same time, rather than accepting the word of God as authority, people would rather quote some dogma or a man stating he knows the truth. I really don't get it. Without the word of God, why not go the way of Buddha or Confucius or the Great White Spirit or the Twelfth Imam? I guess I don't get how a person that claims to be a christian doesn't follow the word of God. I know why the Jews don't, because the Pharisees won and they reject the word of God over tradition. What a rabbi says is far more important and more authoritarian than what God gave Moses. Did you know that? It's true. Well, that is until their most honored rabbi said the Messiah is Jesus Christ, then they either disowned him or claim it was a hoax - even though he spelled it out for them, literally. To not believe the word of God is like a two-year old calling himself a mechanic with a Ferrari in the garage trying to work on it without knowing how to read the manual on the floor and parts everywhere claiming everything's fine. I just don't get it. I'm off to bed...
 
Use the word of God to answer your dogmatic questions: are there three, two, one or none?

"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).​

This verse shows the Father speaking, the Son being baptized, and the Spirit descending.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).​

The Trinity: Revealed in salutations

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:..." (1 Peter 1:2).

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Cor 13:14).​

The Trinity in the Resurrection

(1) The Father raised the Lord Jesus

"Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities" (Acts 3:26).

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10).​

(2) The Lord Jesus raised Himself

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up....But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19,21).​

(3) The Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).​

The previous verses show that the Father raised the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus. The Trinity is shown in the resurrection.

I have a really hard time when people don't believe the word of God. See, without the word of God you wouldn't even know about the One true God let alone anything about Him. Yet, at the same time, rather than accepting the word of God as authority, people would rather quote some dogma or a man stating he knows the truth. I really don't get it. Without the word of God, why not go the way of Buddha or Confucius or the Great White Spirit or the Twelfth Imam? I guess I don't get how a person that claims to be a christian doesn't follow the word of God. I know why the Jews don't, because the Pharisees won and they reject the word of God over tradition. What a rabbi says is far more important and more authoritarian than what God gave Moses. Did you know that? It's true. Well, that is until their most honored rabbi said the Messiah is Jesus Christ, then they either disowned him or claim it was a hoax - even though he spelled it out for them, literally. To not believe the word of God is like a two-year old calling himself a mechanic with a Ferrari in the garage trying to work on it without knowing how to read the manual on the floor and parts everywhere claiming everything's fine. I just don't get it. I'm off to bed...

The misunderstandings of how the trinity is the triune of three divine persons can be paradoxical and confusing. However, through the faithful consideration of saints, church fathers and ecumenical councils, there is established a better theological understanding. Are these the same level of inspiration as scripture? No but they can be useful.
 
So to be a Christian; one must believe in the trinity? Could someone please post some scripture concerning this. And I don't mean 1Jn 5:7-8 which was alteredt from the original text. Thank you.

Sorry, ninja edit. *wink*
I recommend reading the whole chapter, but to start with the main ones,
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
14:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

--In 17, Jesus says, "The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him." Jesus did not say "me", but "him". Yet the Father will send "him" in "my" name. Same God, yet three different revealings of him.
How about this analogy? Let's say you are a Katy Perry fan. (Don't ask me why Katy Perry, just popped into my head.) Now you could go to a concert and see her in person. You can see her on TV. And, you can listen to her on a CD or radio. Same girl, one person, but three manifestations of her voice and music.
In concert, her essence or power of what and who she is, is there. On TV, that is the image of what we see of her. The CD is how we can connect with her and take her with us wherever we go. Similarly, the Father is the power or essence, Jesus the image of what was seen, and the Holy Spirit is the connection we take with us wherever we go.
 
Don't know what's so amazingly remarkable about a "maiden" conceiving and bearing a son, especially it's been happening since the dawn of time. But, a virgin? Now that's a sign.
 
Use the word of God to answer your dogmatic questions: are there three, two, one or none?

"And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11).​

This verse shows the Father speaking, the Son being baptized, and the Spirit descending.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).​

The Trinity: Revealed in salutations

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:..." (1 Peter 1:2).

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Cor 13:14).​

The Trinity in the Resurrection

(1) The Father raised the Lord Jesus

"Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities" (Acts 3:26).

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10).​

(2) The Lord Jesus raised Himself

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up....But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19,21).​

(3) The Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).​

The previous verses show that the Father raised the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus. The Trinity is shown in the resurrection.

I have a really hard time when people don't believe the word of God. See, without the word of God you wouldn't even know about the One true God let alone anything about Him. Yet, at the same time, rather than accepting the word of God as authority, people would rather quote some dogma or a man stating he knows the truth. I really don't get it. Without the word of God, why not go the way of Buddha or Confucius or the Great White Spirit or the Twelfth Imam? I guess I don't get how a person that claims to be a christian doesn't follow the word of God. I know why the Jews don't, because the Pharisees won and they reject the word of God over tradition. What a rabbi says is far more important and more authoritarian than what God gave Moses. Did you know that? It's true. Well, that is until their most honored rabbi said the Messiah is Jesus Christ, then they either disowned him or claim it was a hoax - even though he spelled it out for them, literally. To not believe the word of God is like a two-year old calling himself a mechanic with a Ferrari in the garage trying to work on it without knowing how to read the manual on the floor and parts everywhere claiming everything's fine. I just don't get it. I'm off to bed...

Just so I do not get reported:

Abdicate, You said...........
"I have a really hard time when people don't believe the word of God. See, without the word of God you wouldn't even know about the One true God let alone anything about Him. Yet, at the same time, rather than accepting the word of God as authority, people would rather quote some dogma or a man stating he knows the truth."

Amen! Amen! and Amen!
 
I recommend reading the whole chapter, but to start with the main ones,
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
14:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

--In 17, Jesus says, "The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him." Jesus did not say "me", but "him". Yet the Father will send "him" in "my" name. Same God, yet three different revealings of him.
How about this analogy? Let's say you are a Katy Perry fan. (Don't ask me why Katy Perry, just popped into my head.) Now you could go to a concert and see her in person. You can see her on TV. And, you can listen to her on a CD or radio. Same girl, one person, but three manifestations of her voice and music.
In concert, her essence or power of what and who she is, is there. On TV, that is the image of what we see of her. The CD is how we can connect with her and take her with us wherever we go. Similarly, the Father is the power or essence, Jesus the image of what was seen, and the Holy Spirit is the connection we take with us wherever we go.

Agreed.

In Deuteronomy 6:4, the great Sh'ma prayer of Judaism, God says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD."

Again we see the three in one, The LORD, God, the LORD—one!
 
The misunderstandings of how the trinity is the triune of three divine persons can be paradoxical and confusing. However, through the faithful consideration of saints, church fathers and ecumenical councils, there is established a better theological understanding. Are these the same level of inspiration as scripture? No but they can be useful.

I would agree to that. The same thing would apply I think to those who preach and teach in the Protestant church, or answer to authority of a council or body.
 
I've been doing extensive research into ecumenism which I am fond of. In this matter I've been drawn into contemplating what exactly constitutes the Christian faith, or what are the articles of it.

In my estimation there are at least five articles:

1--God is One
2--God is the triunion of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
3--The Son of God became man (Jesus Christ), lived perfectly, and conferred the faith of the New Covenant
4--Jesus Christ was crucified as a perfect sacrifice for the sins of all humanity for all time
5--God is love and we must love God and love others

Without these it seems that it would cease to be the Christian faith. But, although there are these I find other items are difficult to ascertain, for instance, the physical resurrection and the virgin birth are both not considered strictly necessary to the faith by Anglicans and Episcopalians, yet seem to be integral, albeit perhaps not required, elements of faith--or are they required? I can't find anything in scripture demanding their acceptance, but I find the denial of them a bit unseemly, especially by mainline denominations.

You have a good point here....
When you look at the most basic tenets of "orthodox" (In comparison to heterodox) Christianity - you will find that there is GIANT room for different interpretations of doctrines, words, and genealogies (ref back to 1st timothy)

For instance... Look at the Nicean creed... That's a good enough statement of what defines "orthodox" Christianity... But... you can see that it also leaves a LOT of room... For example... Methodists, Pentecostals, and Catholics are "Orthodox" under this definition - where Jehovah's witnesses and Unitarians are not.

I really think that we churches spend WAY too much time throwing rocks through eachother's stained glass windows..... Like somehow, being doctrine police is the same thing as spreading the Gospel of Messiah....

If you look at Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Galatians 3:26-28... You will notice the word "One" - but that word "One" doesn't mean single... It means Unified.....
God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all perfectly UNITED in will....
We are to be Unified in Christ as Jew, Greek, Free, Slave, Male, and Female....

Does that mean we are all the same? Do we have the same purpose? Do we have the same Calling? No. Just like Husband and wife are ONE flesh (we are to be united) - but are certainly not the same....

Where Ecumenism runs into trouble is when you extend it outside of Christianity... and all of a sudden - you declare Buddhism, Islam, and other world religions as equivalent paths to God....
 
You have a good point here....
When you look at the most basic tenets of "orthodox" (In comparison to heterodox) Christianity - you will find that there is GIANT room for different interpretations of doctrines, words, and genealogies (ref back to 1st timothy)

For instance... Look at the Nicean creed... That's a good enough statement of what defines "orthodox" Christianity... But... you can see that it also leaves a LOT of room... For example... Methodists, Pentecostals, and Catholics are "Orthodox" under this definition - where Jehovah's witnesses and Unitarians are not.

I really think that we churches spend WAY too much time throwing rocks through eachother's stained glass windows..... Like somehow, being doctrine police is the same thing as spreading the Gospel of Messiah....

If you look at Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Galatians 3:26-28... You will notice the word "One" - but that word "One" doesn't mean single... It means Unified.....
God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all perfectly UNITED in will....
We are to be Unified in Christ as Jew, Greek, Free, Slave, Male, and Female....

Does that mean we are all the same? Do we have the same purpose? Do we have the same Calling? No. Just like Husband and wife are ONE flesh (we are to be united) - but are certainly not the same....

Where Ecumenism runs into trouble is when you extend it outside of Christianity... and all of a sudden - you declare Buddhism, Islam, and other world religions as equivalent paths to God....

You said....
"Where Ecumenism runs into trouble is when you extend it outside of Christianity... and all of a sudden - you declare Buddhism, Islam, and other world religions as equivalent paths to God...."

Excellent point which I agree with.
 
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